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To The Freemasons of ATS

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posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:42 PM
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Yes, thank you OP for starting a truly impartial thread on Freemasonry. Your genuine interest and openness to the answers of the brothers here on ATS was, quite frankly, refreshing. As said above, please do not let the attempt at derailing/devolving the thread with intolerance from a few folks here. Life is too short for that IMO.

So mote it be.




posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

I was never a mason, a local lodge member asked me to join, i went to one meeting which was odd, most of the regulars did not attend as they were in a last minute meeting in las vegas. The few that were there talked about what they do which was a mix of community service (doing work at lodges) and research. They used the word inspect when talking about coming to my home. Im just talking from personal experience and just found it odd. So i wouln't know too much about leaving. I do know the women that initially invited me was involved in multiple groups and was trying to keep them seperated , she didn't want the masons to know she was part of the golden dawn or rosicruxians and vice versa. She described the lodge meetings and her initiation. She also told me about how she was given the wrong secret word that was inteded to be said during initiation. I asked her why she would want to be part of a group that lies to you over and over. She didn't really answer, she seemed more concerned with rank and power



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: Sincerestsawa

They used the word inspect when talking about coming to my home.


This, and the fact that you were invited by a woman, leads me to believe it was the Theosophical Society, and not Masonry.


I do know the women that initially invited me was involved in multiple groups and was trying to keep them seperated , she didn't want the masons to know she was part of the golden dawn or rosicruxians and vice versa.


Membership of more than one is commonplace. Hell, the Rosicricians even meet in our Lodge room on a Saturday morning.


She described the lodge meetings and her initiation. She also told me about how she was given the wrong secret word that was inteded to be said during initiation.


If I had a dollar for each time a Candidate was given the Word from a different Degree by accident, I'd be rich. In fact, being given a wrong 'secret word' would be too insignificant for a Mason to even mention. But you'd have to be a Mason to understand.


I asked her why she would want to be part of a group that lies to you over and over.


She probably couldn't be bothered to argue with someone with such indoctrinated preconceived ideas as you appear to have from the way in which you phrased the question...


She didn't really answer, she seemed more concerned with rank and power


...and she was probably right not to waste her time.

edit on 12/7/2014 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa

Also with only 3 degrees proper as you say, why is it every master mason or 3rd degree is offered entrance into the royal arch, which i might add has been called the doorway or entrance to real masonry ?


As has been pointed out in the interim, the side rites expand upon the instruction that occurs in the Craft Lodge degrees. However, it is those degrees that establish the framework while the side rites fill in detail. I've been asked many times during open houses about the "higher" degrees and my Reader's Digest response is "which is taller: 3 feet or 33 inches"? Usually makes the point in a succinct way.

HTH
Fitz



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: KSigMason

So essentially you need to have a reasonable income (when i say this the bar is fairly low) But it would not be viable on very low income, generally speaking of course.

If your income is at such a perilous threshold, to consider joining any group really make sense. To potential applicants to my lodge, I make the point that Masonry should at all times follow work, family and faith in terms of priorities. If any one of those three have not or are not being satisfactorily dealt with, sooner or later there will come a challenge as to why time (and money) is being spent on Masonry when it more properly belongs elsewhere


originally posted by: [post=18114866]JokerThe1st
In the spirit of charity has anyone ever thought of opening special low income, financed lodges (give some of the riff raff a chance) ?

Every lodge needs to be financially self-sustaining and to establish such a lodge as you describe would be an exercise in financial cat herding for the treasurer and secretary and quite likely doomed to failure even if a Grand Lodge granted such a charter.

Fitz



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: Sincerestsawa

Thanks for sharing your experience,and despite what many of the brothers here have said i to have experienced some odd behavior from Freemasons. The past Master denying any knowledge of the 33rd degree was one of them. I do not know if this particular gentlemen was ignorant of the fact or willfully lying to me, the funny part was i pulled out a masonic publication with an article about the current 33rd at the time. His reaction was non-existent and i just got a shrug, that was the end of that conversation.



I do find the Invitation by a female an odd occurrence indeed and have never personally seen this from Freemasonry directly but saying that there are female orders.

For the Masons -
I would like to know if you are York Rite could this explain the lack of knowledge of the 33rd degree. I personally highly doubt it as both Scottish and York rite degrees appear side by side on the structure tree.

Also i apologize for going back on my last comment and making a new one

edit on 13-7-2014 by JokerThe1st because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 08:20 PM
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a reply to: Fitzgibbon

Thank you for your responses
on the financed lodge question i do believe it could work. If your newly found brothers were to learn from freemasonry and eventually learn to be self sufficient in everyday life and lodge life, then the financing would be stopped and dues paid by themselves. In other words by raising them to love life again they would in turn raise there community etc..
and then onto the next financed lodge

and yes i know it sounds very idealistic and would by no means be an easy task, but if it could help to elevate just a handful of people out of continual struggle it would be worth doing in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 08:35 PM
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New question for you all

With the official story that Freemasonry started in 1717 from the UGLE, do all Freemasons accept this or is there a difference of opinion between brethren/Lodges/Jurisdictions ?

I understand this was the 1st official Grand Lodge but i fail to see how this wipes out the rest of freemasonry history.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Sincerestsawa

For the Masons -
I would like to know if you are York Rite could this explain the lack of knowledge of the 33rd degree. I personally highly doubt it as both Scottish and York rite degrees appear side by side on the structure tree.

Also i apologize for going back on my last comment and making a new one


I'm also a Royal Arch Mason, as for the Scottish Rite I have no interest at this time in joining, maybe in the future after I go through the chairs in Blue / Craft Lodge.


Emblematic masonic structure







posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
I can't speak to the situation you had with a Past Master and the 33rd, but every Mason, particularly Past Masters, I know knows about the 33rd within the Scottish Rite.


For the Masons -
I would like to know if you are York Rite could this explain the lack of knowledge of the 33rd degree. I personally highly doubt it as both Scottish and York rite degrees appear side by side on the structure tree.

I am in both Rites, but I'm primarily York Rite. I was a Mason for 5-years before I joined the Scottish Rite and had been in the York Rite for 3-years at that point.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
The first Grand Lodge started in 1717, but the UGLE didn't come about until 1813. Freemasonry existed prior to that as the first Grand Lodge didn't found the first Lodges, it was the opposite way around. There are Lodge records that go back to the 16th century.
edit on 13-7-2014 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 05:59 AM
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a reply to: Sauron

I like the new profile pic

Mason tool set ?



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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a reply to: KSigMason




a reply to: JokerThe1st The first Grand Lodge started in 1717, but the UGLE didn't come about until 1813. Freemasonry existed prior to that as the first Grand Lodge didn't found the first Lodges, it was the opposite way around. There are Lodge records that go back to the 16th century.


the situation seems more complicated than 1st thought. and thank you for your honesty, i actually went to the UGLE website for the official history which i had previously read there and could not find it (I might of not been searching diligently enough) .
It kind of feel's like the goal posts are being moved and transparency is indeed becoming an aim, i do sincerely hope this is so.


Officially, the Grand Lodge of England was founded in London on St. John the Baptist's day, 24 June 1717



The Premier Grand Lodge of England was founded on 24 June 1717 as the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster, later calling itself the Grand Lodge of England. Convention calls it the Premier Grand Lodge of England to distinguish it from the Most Ancient and Honourable Society of Free and Accepted Masons according to the Old Constitutions, more usually referred to as the Ancient Grand Lodge of England, and the Grand Lodge of All England Meeting at York. It existed until 1813 when it united with the Ancient Grand Lodge of England to create the United Grand Lodge of England. It was the first Masonic Grand Lodge to be created.
Wikipedia



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
The first Grand Lodge was called the called often referred to the Premier Grand Lodge, but originally it had authority only over London and Westminster. Here's a little history I did on it:


The story of the first Grand Lodge is pretty well known. On Saint John the Baptists Day in 1717 four London-based Lodges came together at the Goose and Gridiron Tavern in St. Paul’s churchyard established a Grand Lodge and elected Anthony Sawyer as their Grand Master. The actions of these Brothers has echoed through eternity and affected so much of our history. This was the first effort to centralize the authority over Freemasonry as prior to that, there was none. This body went to work standardizing the ritual and emplacing rules and policies, which we see with the publication of Anderson's Constitution in 1723 and all subsequent editions. One such thing was adopting only certain degrees to be included under the banner of Craft Masonry as all others were see as detracting. Many of the degrees seen in the appendant bodies were originally controlled by the Lodge or a like entity, and much of American York Rite Masonry traces its origins back to these groups. Many Lodges outside of London and Westminster did not agree with the policies of the newly formed Grand Lodge and trouble started to arise.

Eventually disagreements erupted over the conferring of the Royal Arch degree and in 1751 the Fraternity in England would be divided among two opposing Grand Lodges who were referred to as the “Antients” and the “Moderns”. The former considered the Royal Arch degree to be the completion of the Master Mason degree while the latter did not. The Antients would create their own regulations under the name of Ahiman Rezon. This Great Schism affected the chartering American Masonry as you will find when traversing the Union that each Grand Lodge is identified as either "Ancient Free & Accepted Masons" or "Free & Accepted Masons"; those designations are a result of the two Grand Lodges issuing charters in the colonies. The fight for supremacy would continue for 6-decades when finally the two bodies reconciled and united in 1813 under the name of the "United Grand Lodge of England".

In 1809 the "Moderns", or Premier Grand Lodge, established a "Lodge of Promulgation". Their goal was to established regularity and return harmony between Scotland, Ireland, and the Antient Grand Lodge. In 1811, both of the British Grand Lodges appointed members of this Committee and they worked over the next 2-years on the Articles of Union. Finally negotiations were completed.

In January of 1813, the Duke of Sussex became the new Grand Master of the "Moderns" and later that year the Duke of Kent became the new Grand Master of the "Antients". On Saint John the Evangelists Day in 1813, the Brothers of both of these Grand Lodges agreed to establish the UGLE with the Duke of Sussex as the Grand Master. A Lodge of Reconciliation was formed to reconcile the rituals practiced by the "Antients" and "Moderns". The Lodge of Reconciliation demonstrations were not officially recorded, but what is known is that the UGLE adopted the recommendations presented. This union led to a standardized use of rituals, symbols, and regalia. Although not considered a part of Craft Masonry and the first 3-degrees, the Royal Arch degree is intimately tied to Craft Masonry.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 04:42 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
Thanks Joker, didn't really want to argue with anyone , just share what ive seen and been told
I also wanted to mention, the woman that invited me and was a part of three groups
She described an initiation that i found interesting because
the way she described it reminded me of ancient egyptian afterlife process
to put it simply, gates, gate keepers and encantations
Aparently she was nearly blind before
after the initiation, she said she experienced hours of distorted vision
like a black screen with pixalated dots, after it stoped she said she didn't need
glasses anymore. But she plans to have her own lodge and eventually be a worshipfull master



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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a reply to: KSigMason

Thank you for that, it was indeed an interesting read, is nice to fill in some gaps with details.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: Sincerestsawa

Could i ask you what the initiation contained as in particulars if you have any?
what was worn,props,attendees,room,floor,positions etc... any relevant info could well disclose the nature of the order she was being initiated in to.
you mentioned The Golden Dawn was this just an example ?



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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The Title of the video and the quote below basically explains some things about Freemasonry.



What it means to be a Freemason


Published on Jun 11, 2014

A short film outlining the fundamental values of what it means to be a Freemason.



posted on Jul, 14 2014 @ 11:29 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

This is generally accepted as true among Masons. I tend to lean towards the history laid out in the book Born in Blood. While this is not a new theory presented it is the best researched in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 12:44 AM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa
when i use the term black brothers you know full well i am not referring to race



No, you are ASSUMING and projecting your racially baited question upon us. I answered you with my personal opinion. That, in my own words, is the only "black" relationship of any kind in my lodge. Period, end of story, let the credits roll.


Please understand that my question was not ''racially baited'' when i used the term Black i was using it in it's more original meaning of ''Evil'' Bad intent etc....

I am a little disappointed that you took it that way to be honest, but like you say that is your personal opinion.
I shall rephrase the question for you

Does masonry contain The Positive brotherhood and The Negative brotherhood ?
is there both branches of extremity within your ranks?


JokerThe1st,

I would suggest you read about the tessellated pavement or floor to discover the meaning or meanings of the White and Black. I suggest this because you are asking about there being a Positive and Negative aspect in masonry. To my experience and practice there is only a Positive aspect. But life is all about choices, thus the White and the Black.

Use good discernment when you study and always ask more questions when you do. You're on the right track by asking the questions that you are. I assure you (even though you have no reason to believe me) that myself and the others here who are Masons want you to get the information correct.

One of our greatest failings is that we sometimes get defensive when people get some of the information about us wrong or we are feeling baited. This forum is well known for trolls and so sometimes we get a little testy if we feel we're getting messed with. Some of us also get frustrated when information that is put out there is just so nuts we can't believe it's still out there.

Modern Masonry, as we know it today, developed in huge leaps during the 18th and 19th centuries and it was very fashionable to develop "Degrees" and to have "Warrants" issued so that you could "Legally confer" degrees. Much of what you are discovering about York Rite and Scottish Rite were the results of this process. But as you have been told, none of these "Concordant or Appendant" bodies (look these terms up in a real dictionary at least 50 years old, not on-line) has precedence or authority over and above the Blue Lodge, which is where you take your first three degrees.

I am more of a Gnostic Christian, which is a whole different animal from the mainstream.

You may well spend a lifetime or two finding the answers you seek. I assure you that most of your answers won't be found here. But good hunting!




I

edit on 15-7-2014 by sharkman because: spelling!!



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