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posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:52 PM
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Dear Freemasons

I am writing to you in the hope that you will be willing and permitted to talk/write here on ATS about your order and answer some questions, At the same time i do understand that you won't talk about certain things as you have all sworn your oath's.
It is also to my understanding that you have been given more opportunity to talk openly about your order than in the past.
(please feel free to correct me if this is not so)

I would like to start by explaining that i have been researching Freemasonry for a long time now and have come to many conclusions of my own (these are not set in stone). I have read many works on various aspects of Freemasonry by outsiders and your own brothers, information is abundant now.

I do not view your order as a secret society as well it is not very secret anymore and has not been so for years, i believe this to be a huge misconception by the public which is somewhat encouraged by yourselves.
I have even considered becoming a brother but have been held back by an uneasy feeling about your intentions for the world which in turn brings me to some questions.

If possible, in your responses could you state your degree and lodge type e.g. Scottish rite/York rite etc... I am not asking for any identifiable information at all and ask this of you for the reason of interest as to the level of understanding relative to the degree you hold.

I would also make to like clear this thread is in no way an attack on Freemasonry and i ask to anyone commenting on this thread who is not a mason to please show due respect and intelligence, Freemasons are humans just like you and I, so therefore deserve the right to common decency
Thank you.

So here goes

1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?

In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.

2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)


3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?

4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?

5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?

6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?

7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all


Well i hope you are able to talk openly and honestly and look forward to your responses, it would be nice to hear what its all about from the horse's mouth for a change




posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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jimmy olsen reporting:

"ATS member last seen knocking on lodge door feigning politeness"
movie at 11

who wants a ride on ol' shub-shub?



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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What the heck, I'll bite. If your intentions are truly honorable and genuine, I will be happy to answer from my own perception as a brother. I say that because each brother gets something different, unique to themselves out of membership. So, don't be surprised if some of the answers you may receive differ in some ways. It is not an attempt to deceive or deflect, it is an attempt to provide a unique perspective.

I am a Master Mason.


originally posted by: JokerThe1st

1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?

In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.

Having an "elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative" is your perception. Is having an organized hierarchy in business negative? Its the same thing. The hierarchy is there in order to conduct business in an orderly fashion according to established rules. Otherwise, it would be anarchy and nothing would get done. Also, these posts are elected posts...elected by the brotherhood members.There is no inherent "claim" Freemasons are above any other person. As the motto goes, "We make good men better". SO, having a group of like minded good men helping me to be a better person is a bad thing how?? As for the secrecy thing, any "secrets" of Freemasonry are no longer secret, as you can get the info on the Internet these days.


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)


I think it's a matter of semantics. In Freemasonry (proper) there are only 3 degrees...period. As such once a Freemason reaches the "Master Mason" degree, he is a full masonic brother, and equal in all ways to every other brother at that level. However, there are extensions such as York and Scottish Rites. These are optional paths that do have 33 degrees within their own structure. But, they are not formally Freemasonry degrees per-se...I hope that clears that misconception up a bit.



originally posted by: JokerThe1st
3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?

I've seen no "occult" ritual or practices, other than one simple requirement to be considered for membership. That requirement is a belief in a supreme force. It is not linked to any one particular religious sect or belief system at all. In fact, in my lodge there are practically every denomination of religious beliefs among the membership. And, guess what, there is no fighting over the differing belief systems, since that topic is off limits within lodge. The meetings, dinners, and charity aspects are true. The meanings are only lost to those who do not wish to pursue them, or attempt to use the lessons in each to better one's self. This is part of the making good men better. Having the lessons demonstrated before you is like putting a book in front of you....it is up to the individual to pick up that book, read it, and apply their interpretation of the lessons to their own life. It is not forced upon anyone...only encouraged if one truly wishes to better themselves.



originally posted by: JokerThe1st
4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?

No. See answer to #2.


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?

Not true. "Black Brothers" to me means brothers that happen to have dark skin (not that it matters what to color to cover of the book is, when the content of that book is what really matters in life).


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?

These topics are not allowed to be discussed within lodge itself. As for "power", the Masonic order has as much "power" as you do on a daily basis. The only thing I can think of that might be loosely translated into power (and I use the term loosely quite liberally), is the promise to help a fellow masonic brother when they are in need, within your own ability to help. TO me, this is a community building or family oath. Actually considering and treating fellow "brothers" as familial brothers. How is that a bad thing to know that if I am in need, I have a support structure I can reach out to that I trust and can count on at any given time? Likewise I to am bound by that promise, if asked and I can help...I will.


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all


I do believe in a higher and supreme force. The details of which are irrelevant and private, so I respectfully wish to not provide more details. As for alien existence, and it's link to Freemasonry, there is none, zero, zip. Each brother can believe whatever they want on that subject, but it will not, cannot, interfere with the relationship between brothers.

I hope that helps clear up some of your questions and possible misconceptions.


edit on 7/5/2014 by Krakatoa because: Added my level of degree in Freemasonry



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?

In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.


Masonry is open to all men who are not felons and believe in a Supreme Being which, in my opinion, does not make it very exclusionary.

If, when you refer to 'secrets', you are speaking if the teachings there is nothing in Masonry that you already do not know or can learn elsewhere. The lessons are Faith, Hope and Charity. We just happen to have a different style of conveying them which are the degrees.


2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)


I have never seen a Mason say there are not 33*. What we will say is they do not convey any sense of ranking or hierarchy as the additional degrees, outside of the first three, are conveyed in optional side orders which most Masons do jot join and are irrelevant to them.


3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?


The degrees could be considered both esoteric and occult.


4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?


There are 3 and the additional ones conveyed in the York and Scottish Rites. The Scottish Rite has 29 more plus one honorary degree making it 33 if you receive all of them. There are irregular bodies that convey more than this but they are not something any of the Masons here participate in to my knowledge.


5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?


That really would not work with the tenets of Masonry as 'playing both sides' is not something we would consider a Masonic quality.


6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?


I would ask you to list any persons holding political office that are Masons, I frankly think the numbers is rather low.

While some of the rituals have mentions of Biblical passages most of the ritual was written specifically for the degrees. Additionally, not everyone is given a Bible if Christianity is not their religion.

We do not worship the Master if the lodge or anything else while in lodge. Worship is between the man and his God,


7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all


Well i hope you are able to talk openly and honestly and look forward to your responses, it would be nice to hear what its all about from the horse's mouth for a change



I am panentheistic and do not believe in space aliens.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

thank you for the response, when i use the term black brothers you know full well i am not referring to race, Also with only 3 degrees proper as you say, why is it every master mason or 3rd degree is offered entrance into the royal arch, which i might add has been called the doorway or entrance to real masonry ?

I would also add i am genuine and have started this thread to try and increase understanding between masons and non masons, i personally would like nothing more than to see a true brotherhood of mankind.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

''Masonry is open to all men who are not felons and believe in a Supreme Being which, in my opinion, does not make it very exclusionary''

I am sorry but that excludes a huge portion of mankind, there are plenty of politicians who are members, and no i will not list them as i really have no need to do so especially when i never made an accusation pertaining to such, i merely likened those denying the existence of 33 degrees to a lying politician. Also you forget to mention that one needs to be vouched for by 2 existing members ( i have seen the forms) this limits application to the order greatly.

The degrees above master mason do have significance as to hierarchy, the brothers who have progressed to such i am sure would hold very different opinion to yourself. As far as is understood the knowledge and understandings are not conveyed between brothers of differing degrees they are kept fairly separate above and beyond the 3rd degree.

Please correct me if i am wrong but a higher degree is not permitted to impart there knowledge of such to a lower degree?
without of course permission to admit such into higher degrees ?
edit on 5-7-2014 by JokerThe1st because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:05 PM
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I am A 32nd degree Mason. My lodge is lodge 215 hebron blue lodge
every thing my brothers have told you so far is accurate and 100% true. if you need more enlightenment you should join.
2Be1Ask1. stars to all my brothers
edit on 5-7-2014 by pez1975 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st
Hello, I am most imortantly a Master Mason, but I am also a Worshipful Master (and Past Master) of a Blue Lodge, Past Patron of a Chapter of the Order of the Eastern Star, currently preside (and have presided over) a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons (RAM), presided over a Council of Cryptic Masons, presided over a Commandery of Knights Templar, serve as a Grand officer in the Grand Chapter of Idaho (RAM) and Grand Council of Idaho (Cryptic Masons), serve as an officer in a York Rite College, serve as an officer in a Conclave of the Red Cross of Constantine, serve as an officer in a Council of Knight Masons, serve as an officer in a Chapel of the Commemorative Order of St. Thomas of Acon, serve as an officer in a Valley of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite (SJ), serve as an officer in the Knights of the York Cross of Honor, member of Council of the Allied Masonic Degrees (AMD), member of the Royal Order of Scotland, member of the Order of Bath, member of Ye Antient Order of Corks, member of the Order of the Sword of Bunker Hill, member of the Grand College of Rites, and member of the Ohio Asylum of Research...I think that is all of them.

1. Exclusive in that we require one to have a clean record, be a certain age (often 18 or 21), have a belief in a Supreme Being, and be a guy. Those membership requirements don't mean that we are not working for the betterment of ourselves and through that our community. Freemasonry does not ever say that we are above non-Masons. Plus, everyone enjoys secrecy or privacy; it is a natural human behavior.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

I would argue that our secrecy makes us a likely target, but the core of the hatred against us stems from a variety of reasons...many of them despicable IMO.

2. No Mason denies the existence of 33-degrees. What we do say though is that the 33rd degree is only relevant to the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite is just one branch of a much larger tree of Masonry. The Scottish Rite has authority over the Scottish Rite...not the Blue Lodge, the York Rite and so on. The numbering system misleads many people into thinking it has superiority within all Freemasonry.

3. Both those words are synonymous with privacy and secrecy. Education is an important role with Masons and the factory setting of the Lodge is starting to be a thing of the past. I would disagree that the meanings of our rituals and symbols has been lost.

4. No. There is no body in Masonry that confers 360*. In the concordant/appendant bodies there are more than 33-degrees. If I add up all the degrees associated with the York Rite there's somewhere around 70/80.

5. There is no body of Masonry that I know of that refers to itself as "The brothers of Light and The Black brothers". There is no moral relativism taught in Masonry.

6. That is correct. We do not talk about politics or religion as we have members from different beliefs attending so such discussions could cause the peace and harmony to be disturbed. Some of the symbolism may be seen as religious because our legendary roots takes us back to the building of King Solomon's Temple. The Master of the Lodge is not worshiped in the Lodge nor is Freemasonry used to replace, negate, or substitute religious practices.

7. My faith is Christian albeit esoteric or gnostic Christianity (such as Rosicrucianism). I believe there could be other life forms out there, but I cannot say what.
edit on 5-7-2014 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:34 PM
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This thread is related www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway, I've been doing some reading lately about Free Masonry and Luciferism. There's some connections but overall I dont really thnik it matters.

Most Masons are law abiding citizens who dont think Lucifer is the Grand Architect. So what, you have some high level masons at the top that think they can become God through Luciferism.

I've never though have seen a Free Mason disprove the accusations of Freemasonry basically being a cover for Luciferisim though.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:55 PM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa
when i use the term black brothers you know full well i am not referring to race

No, you are ASSUMING and projecting your racially baited question upon us. I answered you with my personal opinion. That, in my own words, is the only "black" relationship of any kind in my lodge. Period, end of story, let the credits roll.



Also with only 3 degrees proper as you say, why is it every master mason or 3rd degree is offered entrance into the royal arch, which i might add has been called the doorway or entrance to real masonry ?


I've never heard it called that, ever. I do not know where you got that phrase, but, I assure you it was not from a true brother. Once you have been installed and accepted as a Master Mason, you are a Freemason...any further studies are entirely voluntary. But, even a 33d degree Scottish Rites Mason is equal to a Master Mason that never chose to follow any further studies of that order. Ditto for the York Rite path as well. The 3rd degree Master Mason is the highest level in Freemasonry (proper). Anyone that tells you different is either lying to you or selling you something.



I would also add i am genuine and have started this thread to try and increase understanding between masons and non masons, i personally would like nothing more than to see a true brotherhood of mankind.


Thank you for asking for more information and clarification. Any true Freemason will be happy to answer if you only "just ask".



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 07:03 PM
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I have little knowledge of the Masons, just the 101 stuff most people know i.e Temples, Rings, Handshakes, Charity. I am curious and would like to read more into it.

So i have a couple of questions for you ATS Brothers.....

1. Why are Master Masons called Master Masons, what exactly is it they have Mastered?

2. What material do you study? Is it available in public i.e library/online?

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
Dear Freemasons

I am writing to you in the hope that you will be willing and permitted to talk/write here on ATS about your order and answer some questions, At the same time i do understand that you won't talk about certain things as you have all sworn your oath's.
It is also to my understanding that you have been given more opportunity to talk openly about your order than in the past.
(please feel free to correct me if this is not so)

I would like to start by explaining that i have been researching Freemasonry for a long time now and have come to many conclusions of my own (these are not set in stone). I have read many works on various aspects of Freemasonry by outsiders and your own brothers, information is abundant now.

I do not view your order as a secret society as well it is not very secret anymore and has not been so for years, i believe this to be a huge misconception by the public which is somewhat encouraged by yourselves.
I have even considered becoming a brother but have been held back by an uneasy feeling about your intentions for the world which in turn brings me to some questions.

If possible, in your responses could you state your degree and lodge type e.g. Scottish rite/York rite etc... I am not asking for any identifiable information at all and ask this of you for the reason of interest as to the level of understanding relative to the degree you hold.

I would also make to like clear this thread is in no way an attack on Freemasonry and i ask to anyone commenting on this thread who is not a mason to please show due respect and intelligence, Freemasons are humans just like you and I, so therefore deserve the right to common decency
Thank you.


3rd Degree Master Mason, Blue Lodge.

You are right. Masonry is not a secret organization...it is an organization with a secret.


So here goes

1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?

In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.


Yeah, things tend to get a bit dicey when humans get out of control, don't they...Seeking all manner of excuses for their out of control behavior. Including blaming, "the other guy."


2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)


Never seen anyone deny the existence of a 33rd. But there are only 3 degrees of Masonry.


3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?


Everything I have been taught is valid.


4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?


There are 3 degrees to Masonry. There are 360 degrees in a circle.


5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?


There are three sides to a coin.


6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?


No worship is directed to any human in any lodge, unless you consider respect and deference to another person in the conduct of business as a form of worship.


7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all


Well i hope you are able to talk openly and honestly and look forward to your responses, it would be nice to hear what its all about from the horse's mouth for a change



I believe all things have a Creator. I am unsure of aliens but I have never seen anything leading me to believe in extraterrestrial.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
I am sorry but that excludes a huge portion of mankind, there are plenty of politicians who are members, and no i will not list them as i really have no need to do so especially when i never made an accusation pertaining to such, i merely likened those denying the existence of 33 degrees to a lying politician. Also you forget to mention that one needs to be vouched for by 2 existing members ( i have seen the forms) this limits application to the order greatly.


The most recent Gallop poll showed people with Atheistic views to be 9-10% so the overwhelming majority of the populace qualifies.

If you are not willing to list specific person in politics who are members then it will be rather difficult to have a conversation revolving around these people. The last article published regarding Masons in Congress or governships amounted to 6 from what I recall; not really a large percentage of 550+ persons.

If someone is interested in joining they can stop by their local lodge and meet some of the members, after which it is quite easy to garner the two signatures required. I only knew one of the people who signed my petition prior to joining.


The degrees above master mason do have significance as to hierarchy, the brothers who have progressed to such i am sure would hold very different opinion to yourself. As far as is understood the knowledge and understandings are not conveyed between brothers of differing degrees they are kept fairly separate above and beyond the 3rd degree.


There are no degrees 'above Master Mason', when I was Master of my lodge I technically 'out ranked' the 33rd degree Scottish Rite Mason who ran the state of New Jersey. I could have barred him from entering the lodge if I deemed appropriate.

As to what is taught in the morality plays composing the York and Scottish Rites they are simply different interpretations of what is conveyed in the Blue Lodge degrees and most of it is irrelevant as most Masons do not join either group.


Please correct me if i am wrong but a higher degree is not permitted to impart there knowledge of such to a lower degree?
without of course permission to admit such into higher degrees ?


This only applies to the first three degrees. I was given and read many of the Scottish Rite degrees prior to joining as they wanted me to participate in the degree as an actor while simultaneously receiving the degree. They are just glorified skits, for lack of a better term.


edit on 5-7-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 10:02 PM
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a reply to: Revelations29

Then maybe you should read my thread a few down from this one on why Lucifer is not relevant in Masonry.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 11:06 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

I'm a Master Mason (A.F.& A.M.) Royal Arch Mason and Widows Son. The Brethren have given you very good answers to your questions.
Though at the end of the day it's up to you. I took the final first steps and found out for myself, and have had a great time since then.





posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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a reply to: Revelations29
I have yet to meet any Mason who thinks they can become God through Luciferianism.

I have never seen a non-Mason prove that the accusations of us being Luciferian to be true. I have asked that they pull excerpts from our ritual, but nothing so far.

a reply to: TSOM87
1. It comes from our legends. There were three classes of Masons: Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason. We are supposed to have mastered the lessons of Masonry, and endeavor better ourselves.

2. Personally, I study quantitative analysis for political research. I also like to look at Rosicrucianism, Gnosticism, Hinduism, various mythologies/theologies all of Christianities history (not just what the Council of Nicaea published), and history in general (particularly post-Fall of the Roman Empire). In Masonry I study everything from our history, to ritualistic evolution, the meaning of symbols, and the list goes on.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
I like to say that the concordant/appendant bodies are just icing on the cake. Or branches on a tree.
edit on 6-7-2014 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

I would like to say thank you to everyone who is participating here, it really is greatly appreciated.
your answers are concise and intelligent

could i also ask does financial viability have any place within the order?
put another way does being poor make admittance and regular attendance difficult in any way ?

another question that bounces around at times is these other organizations like 322 or Golden Dawn,Knights Templar,Thule society etc .... there are to many to list lol oh and of course i should mention the cliche, Illuminati.

are these off shoots of masonry in your opinions?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 06:41 AM
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a reply to: Krakatoa


originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa
when i use the term black brothers you know full well i am not referring to race



No, you are ASSUMING and projecting your racially baited question upon us. I answered you with my personal opinion. That, in my own words, is the only "black" relationship of any kind in my lodge. Period, end of story, let the credits roll.


Please understand that my question was not ''racially baited'' when i used the term Black i was using it in it's more original meaning of ''Evil'' Bad intent etc....

I am a little disappointed that you took it that way to be honest, but like you say that is your personal opinion.
I shall rephrase the question for you

Does masonry contain The Positive brotherhood and The Negative brotherhood ?
is there both branches of extremity within your ranks?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 06:54 AM
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originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: JokerThe1st

I would like to say thank you to everyone who is participating here, it really is greatly appreciated.
your answers are concise and intelligent

could i also ask does financial viability have any place within the order?
put another way does being poor make admittance and regular attendance difficult in any way ?

another question that bounces around at times is these other organizations like 322 or Golden Dawn,Knights Templar,Thule society etc .... there are to many to list lol oh and of course i should mention the cliche, Illuminati.

are these off shoots of masonry in your opinions?


Traveling back and forth costs money...we do not get free gas...costs me ten bucks just for the trip to and fro meetings...Learning to budget money is part of maintaining control over one's house.

As far as other organizations, the Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shriners...all are Masons...the ones you mention, I have no idea if they are all Masons or not...

You know, it is possible for people, regardless of their affiliations, to be good, bad, indifferent...does not make all people that way...
edit on 6-7-2014 by totallackey because: misspelling



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 07:02 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the only reason i did not want to get into the political members discussion is because i never brought it up per se. I know i said there are plenty that are members but i shall correct myself from that sweeping statement and say there are plenty attached to various society's and orders which may or may not be officially affiliated with masonry.

Also when i stated ''I am sorry but that excludes a huge portion of mankind.'' i was talking more of the convicted felons. I apologize i should of made that clearer.
This indeed excludes a lot of decent people who have made mistakes in there lives or have been convicted on trumped up charges.

If a persons morality is not effected by a lawful crime does this mean they deserve exclusion. i guess what i am getting at is if a person is convicted of lets say shoplifting or possession something minor, can they not change and become a decent human ? why should they be excluded for such ?
I have met many a decent man who have made mistakes in past experiences.

And i do understand the seat holder is the lodge particular master for there period on the chair.

Is there certain lodges that are not deemed official in the world ??? from my understanding there is a fair amount of debate as to where official authority stems from, is this correct?
edit on 6-7-2014 by JokerThe1st because: added info





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