It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?
In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?
In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.
2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)
3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?
4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?
5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?
6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?
7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all
Well i hope you are able to talk openly and honestly and look forward to your responses, it would be nice to hear what its all about from the horse's mouth for a change
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: Krakatoa
when i use the term black brothers you know full well i am not referring to race
Also with only 3 degrees proper as you say, why is it every master mason or 3rd degree is offered entrance into the royal arch, which i might add has been called the doorway or entrance to real masonry ?
I would also add i am genuine and have started this thread to try and increase understanding between masons and non masons, i personally would like nothing more than to see a true brotherhood of mankind.
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
Dear Freemasons
I am writing to you in the hope that you will be willing and permitted to talk/write here on ATS about your order and answer some questions, At the same time i do understand that you won't talk about certain things as you have all sworn your oath's.
It is also to my understanding that you have been given more opportunity to talk openly about your order than in the past.
(please feel free to correct me if this is not so)
I would like to start by explaining that i have been researching Freemasonry for a long time now and have come to many conclusions of my own (these are not set in stone). I have read many works on various aspects of Freemasonry by outsiders and your own brothers, information is abundant now.
I do not view your order as a secret society as well it is not very secret anymore and has not been so for years, i believe this to be a huge misconception by the public which is somewhat encouraged by yourselves.
I have even considered becoming a brother but have been held back by an uneasy feeling about your intentions for the world which in turn brings me to some questions.
If possible, in your responses could you state your degree and lodge type e.g. Scottish rite/York rite etc... I am not asking for any identifiable information at all and ask this of you for the reason of interest as to the level of understanding relative to the degree you hold.
I would also make to like clear this thread is in no way an attack on Freemasonry and i ask to anyone commenting on this thread who is not a mason to please show due respect and intelligence, Freemasons are humans just like you and I, so therefore deserve the right to common decency
Thank you.
So here goes
1.Freemasons claim to be working for the brotherhood of man yet there are a few points that would seem counter productive to this, Your order appears to be an exclusive,elitist order with a powerful hierarchy this in essence is negative.
I shall explain, when a person is elevated above another,given special rights and so on the only natural course is for resentment towards those of higher status. The same is true with secrets, to stand and claim out loud ''we know something you don't know'' does no good for peaceful relationships in our world and for those not privy to such secrets will always end up despising the holders (does it really have to be this way?)
I can understand your preference to secrecy due to attitudes towards your order in the past but times have changed and the world is a very different place, is it not time the veil was lifted?
In some respects it would seem your own order is the cause of hatred towards yourselves(the hatred is the effect of claiming higher status and secrets)
This is also evident with the Jewish race, by claiming to be God's chosen people above all others they have become the major cause of anti-Semitic behavior, those outside the given group will always boil in resentment at the arrogance of those ''Who know better'' you see my point.
2.Why do so many masons still deny the existence of 33 degrees? it has become extremely common knowledge for anyone interested in the subject (I have experienced this with a Past Master in person) Doing this only makes you look like all those lovely politicians who lie there arses off to everyone on a daily basis (Not a good look guys)
3.Is the esoteric and occult still involved with masonry, I have spoken with masons in the past and it would appear most of there time is spent going to meetings,dinners,charity events,Admin duty's,donating money etc.... while i understand your rituals and ceremony's are based upon such i have heard it said many a time that there meanings have been lost is this in anyway correct?
4.There are 33 known about degrees, personally i believe there to be around 360 at a bet. is there any truth to this?
5.I understand there is a dual nature to our existence with this in mind could you tell me if the following statement is true
''Freemasonry contains The brothers of Light and The Black brothers.''
In other words do you guys play both sides of the coin ?
6.Freemasonry claims discussion of Politics and Religion is not allowed in lodges yet this is exactly where your order appears to hold most of it's power. Also your rituals are loosely religious and you are all given a personal Bible. Not to mention the huge amount of religious symbolism you guys use. these contradictions i find difficult to grasp although i have read worship is directed to the lodge master rather than god ?
7. and last of all what are you beliefs on Creation, God/Gods, Aliens etc... if any at all
Well i hope you are able to talk openly and honestly and look forward to your responses, it would be nice to hear what its all about from the horse's mouth for a change
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
I am sorry but that excludes a huge portion of mankind, there are plenty of politicians who are members, and no i will not list them as i really have no need to do so especially when i never made an accusation pertaining to such, i merely likened those denying the existence of 33 degrees to a lying politician. Also you forget to mention that one needs to be vouched for by 2 existing members ( i have seen the forms) this limits application to the order greatly.
The degrees above master mason do have significance as to hierarchy, the brothers who have progressed to such i am sure would hold very different opinion to yourself. As far as is understood the knowledge and understandings are not conveyed between brothers of differing degrees they are kept fairly separate above and beyond the 3rd degree.
Please correct me if i am wrong but a higher degree is not permitted to impart there knowledge of such to a lower degree?
without of course permission to admit such into higher degrees ?
No, you are ASSUMING and projecting your racially baited question upon us. I answered you with my personal opinion. That, in my own words, is the only "black" relationship of any kind in my lodge. Period, end of story, let the credits roll.
originally posted by: JokerThe1st
a reply to: JokerThe1st
I would like to say thank you to everyone who is participating here, it really is greatly appreciated.
your answers are concise and intelligent
could i also ask does financial viability have any place within the order?
put another way does being poor make admittance and regular attendance difficult in any way ?
another question that bounces around at times is these other organizations like 322 or Golden Dawn,Knights Templar,Thule society etc .... there are to many to list lol oh and of course i should mention the cliche, Illuminati.
are these off shoots of masonry in your opinions?