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My solution to Islam (from a western POV)

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posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

And this is if the fight is brought to you, no fight had been brought yet so our hand is not forced yet.
Iran, Saudi Jordan ect have to choose, not the US, not yet.
We got enough problems here that could use that money we would be spending over there.
I am sure we can agree there




posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: Revelations29

YAAAAAY yet another race related smart alec comment....

Heres a bit of information for ya hot shot........

Its brown people killing their own brown people over there.........

And if you were there, and werent muslim they would kill you too.....They dont care what color you are....

So keep the racial drivel out of it



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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Let's see what the books might say.....



New Testament
In the New Testament, war is universally seen as evil and Jesus emphasized peace instead. He advised us to avoid retaliation and revenge and to extend our love even to our enemies.

What Does the Bible Say About War?






A Jewish Nation Starting a War

The discussion in the commentaries concerning the issues involved in a Jewish nation starting a war is far more detailed and subject to much more extensive discussion than that of secular nations going to war.

The Talmud understands that a special category of permitted killing called "war" exists which is analytically different from other permitted forms of killing, like the killing of a pursuer or a house robber. The Talmud delimits two categories of permissible war: 1) Obligatory; and 2) Authorized. It is crucial to determine which category of "war" any particular type of conflict is. As explained below, many of the restrictions placed by Jewish law on the type of conduct prohibited by war is frequently limited to Authorized rather than Obligatory wars. Logic would dictate, and Jewish law accepts, that a specifically divinely mandated conflict has certain ethical rules not found in any other type of military engagement

Grounds for Starting War






The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?




Hmmm.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Jews are not a Race. Judaism was funded when the Babylonian Talmud was written. Why people think Jews are a Race I have no idea.

Maybe your confusing the Jews with Israelites? Those two groups of people are very different from one and another.

WW2 was the last war that America engaged white people in. It was also the last war that was passed through Congress.

Anyway, the creation of Israel was one of the sole reasons why you have a conflict between Jews and Muslims today. Before Israel was created Jews and Muslims were living in peace in Jerusalem at the time.

"And if you were there, and weren't Muslim they would kill you too" Gee I wonder why?

Maybe it has something to do with America killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims over the span of three decades?

Nah, of course not. Americans are the most innocent people in the world.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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Let's define a few terms here that are being tossed about to see if we can get a bit more specific:

A) Number of Muslims in the world: 1.6 billion divided among about 40 countries around the world.

B) Number of members of Al Qaeda et. al. world-wide: Estimates 26K to 50K.

C) Number of members of ISIS, The Caliphate, et. al.: Estimates 5K or so.

So, when talking about "Islam" in this thread, is it about A, B or C?

Because, if it's A, the suggestions that "we" are going to do anything to "them" or that "they" are somehow unified into a cohesive political unit are simply insane, irrational, chest-puffing nonsensical absurdities.

If B, well, we've been at it for 13 or 14 years now ... invading Afghanistan and Iraq and multiple other covert operations around ... and that has produced 20,000 civilian deaths in Afghanistan and somewhere between 100K and a million civilian casualties in Iraq, give or take, depending on what you mean by casualty. We're not stopping anything in regard to radicalization; we're just sending grist to the mill.

If C, well, in a way of speaking, we broke it so now we're buying it. This is the most reasonable category for some of the suggestions and references I've seen in this thread, but ... what are "we" really saying here, reinvade Iraq, go into Syria, bring more of our patented brand of 'Merican Whoop-Ass(*) to the infidels???

Yeah, that's worked out really well so far.

I would suggest you all re-read Orwell's 1984. Or, for the ADHDs, just read about the concept of Perpetual War.

And remember: "War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

(*) I want to clarify this because I got carried away while writing. First of all, I honor those who have chosen to serve our country in the military, and personally regret every loss, every death and every disfigurement. I loathe the fact that we put our men and women in harm's way for absolutely no good reason, and they went, and were killed, burned and blown apart, for not much more than political expediency. I am personally horrified by the idea that we should send our people BACK into these hell-pits ... (and now, for those of you who are already typing in "bleeding-heart-liberal-leftist-coward") if we truly determine that this ISIS Caliphate is a danger to the national security of the United States, then let's just nuke it until these lands are a sheet of glass and be done with it.

No more kids in harm's way.


edit on 17Sat, 05 Jul 2014 17:51:19 -050014p052014766 by Gryphon66 because: Added "in Iraq" 6:51 PM

edit on 18Sat, 05 Jul 2014 18:16:03 -050014p062014766 by Gryphon66 because: Clarification 7:15 PM



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Well put. The only logical post in this entire thread.

The only way to have perpetual war of course is to have events like "9/11" just like the bombings in 1984.

Perpetual war also can't exist without a Central Bank. And if you notice, the only countries we are going to war with are countries without Central Banks.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:11 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
So, when talking about "Islam" in this thread, is it about A, B or C?

It's D

D - Sharia Muslims wanting their caliphate spread around the world Stats Here - Middle East countries average 75% wanting Sharia. Sharia - where hands of children get chopped off for stealing cookies, where rape victims are given 100 lashes and the death penalty for daring to be raped, where you get put to death for leaving Islam, where women don't have the same rights as men in a court of law, where non-muslims are dhimmi and have to pay money to Muslims for not being Islamic, where homosexuals are sentenced to death for being born gay, no real freedom of religion for anyone, no real freedom of speech for anyone, and muslims in general who refuse to allow the light of TRUTH such as refusing to acknowledge that science proves their religious myths (Noahs Ark, Exodus, Adam and Eve) are wrong ... etc etc

It's bad enough if it's kept within the borders .. but it's creeping Sharia ... and the goal is just like any religion or ideology, the goal is to spread the insanity.
edit on 7/5/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:23 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Really, quoting from The Blaze is merely to invoke justified claims of radical right-wing nonsense.

Could we look at some of the actual results of the Pew Survey instead, here: Executive Summary - Pew Research



At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths.


And ...



The survey – which involved more than 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages with Muslims across Europe, Asia, the Middle East and Africa – shows that Muslims tend to be most comfortable with using sharia in the domestic sphere, to settle family or property disputes. In most countries surveyed, there is considerably less support for severe punishments, such as cutting off the hands of thieves or executing people who convert from Islam to another faith. And even in the domestic sphere, Muslims differ widely on such questions as whether polygamy, divorce and family planning are morally acceptable and whether daughters should be able to receive the same inheritance as sons.


And ...



Overall, the survey finds that most Muslims see no inherent tension between being religiously devout and living in a modern society. Nor do they see any conflict between religion and science. Many favor democracy over authoritarian rule, believe that humans and other living things have evolved over time and say they personally enjoy Western movies, music and television – even though most think Western popular culture undermines public morality.


So, FlyersFan, based on the actual research conducted, rather than the mindless ideology from Glennbeckistan, it would seem that your "Category D" doesn't really exist ... at least not in the way you've presented it based on your cited evidence.
edit on 18Sat, 05 Jul 2014 18:27:17 -050014p062014766 by Gryphon66 because: Small addition.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 06:49 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Get out and stay out but for different reasons. Not because they are too warlike of a people but because WE (our government as ordered by the corporate masters and allowed to by us who offer only whimpers of protest) are. You can twist that as anti-American if you like but I see it as Patriotic. I still love what our Nation could be if we pulled out of the world, stop destabilizing and then pouncing like hyenas on carcases, it's disgusting and I'm sick of it... I want a better more human America. I want a government (for now) that actually listens to it's people, that isn't in it for the money but because it is made up of smart, caring people that do what's best for the people not their own corporate loaded trust funds.

Cut the coporate-congress-gov agency-appointed whatever pipeline, so much wrong would begin looking right again.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: Willtell

dude, that was like 2 centuries ago.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

But the Amish are a peaceful people, so they could work alongside national laws, as long as the laws didn't intrude on their freedoms to their being peaceful and work within their environment with limited and passive tools. Quite honestly, I have never met an Amish person who wasn't courteous, helpful, considerate and quite likable. Plus the Amish and Mennonites integrate (hire non-Amish and non-Mennonites) with common society to produce and sell their goods. The Amish just want to deal with the world on their terms, no conversions.

Islam however is quite different and though many, if not most, Muslims are moderates, there are some serious nutbars out there. The ultra-zealots, fanatics and radicals destroy their base ideology. It seems a lot like the ANC Marxists in South Africa, they extorted, threatened and killed their own people to force an agenda.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 01:55 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

Who is funding the wars between muslums and who benefits from their destruction? Lets just say the US won't stop the genocide in Burma because there is no oil in Burma.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 02:17 AM
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a reply to: [post=18110606]TDawgRex[I post]


My solution to all this? Subject them to their own laws. Convert or die.



You know as a Muslim my self , I started out in agreement with your OP , but when I read the above stament ..

I just had to shake my head ... But iunderstand its the lack of education that people make mistakes like this.


"Convert or die " ... You say...

If being Muslim means to submit your will to god sincerely honestly ... How then can you force someone to submit their will to god?

Your Islam is NOT spread by the sward ... If it were their would be no Jews in Iran and no laws of sharia that state Jews and chriatans are protected under sharia . nor would Muslims be allowed to marrie non Muslims.

What needs to happen is mass education on Islam directed at non Muslims and extremists who have twisted Islam.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 02:19 AM
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originally posted by: glend
a reply to: TDawgRex

Who is funding the wars between muslums and who benefits from their destruction? Lets just say the US won't stop the genocide in Burma because there is no oil in Burma.


obviously.

divide and conquer and all that.

I am just surprised how "deny ignorance" crowd is happy to embrace ignorance when it comes to specific topics and groups; in this case Islam.

Ridiculous thing to say but almost as if they were brainwashed and conditioned by news media and entertainment industry...

almost.

probably wrong,

I mean; WHO would want to do THAT?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 02:33 AM
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If you take every death caused by a terrorist attack (including 9/11) over the past 30 years - and then add in everyone killed by mob violence in Islamic countries - it would absolutely pale in comparison to the number of Muslims that have been killed by the American military in the same time period.

In just the Iraq war alone, the US managed to kill nearly a million Iraqis - a large percentage of whom were civilians who had nothing to do with the conflict. Add to that the number of Muslims killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, etc in the so-called "War on Terror".

Anyone puzzled why there might be so much hatred towards the US around the Islamic world?



Who are the real terrorist?

This thread is pure islamphobia ....



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 02:51 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

I'm with you, if it IS a religion why can't the leaders of the 'churches' or places of worship do more to reel in the fanatics?
When elders with long white beards say honor killing of women and girls are justified I think it's time to act!
Maybe we shouldn't have taken Saddam out without putting in some American bases until the country was stable, the way it's going we are going to have to go back and fight for land we already shed blood for! Hell, even Al-Qaeda is afraid of this new Islamic band of outlaws ISIS because they kill for the sake of killing. I have heard some of you call this a religion on peace, I beg to differ with you, it's a poison that is trying to kill any that opposes them!
No, you are not a racist, you are a REALIST!
edit on 6-7-2014 by wulff because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 02:57 AM
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a reply to: wulff

it makes you wonder why would USA ever want to support extremists...

you have to ask yourself; why did USA provided aid, training and logistic support to various groups of extremist "rebels" in many countries; even organized some death squads itself.

why?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 03:03 AM
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originally posted by: demus
a reply to: wulff

it makes you wonder why would USA ever want to support extremists...

you have to ask yourself; why did USA provided aid, training and logistic support to various groups of extremist "rebels" in many countries; even organized some death squads itself.

why?

I misunderstood you and actually gave you a star, the media I see is more pro-Islamic than anything else, to attack the OP for stating facts is 'ignorance' !!!
Give me a star to offset the one I erroneously gave you!



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 03:03 AM
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originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere

If you take every death caused by a terrorist attack (including 9/11) over the past 30 years - and then add in everyone killed by mob violence in Islamic countries - it would absolutely pale in comparison to the number of Muslims that have been killed by the American military in the same time period.

In just the Iraq war alone, the US managed to kill nearly a million Iraqis - a large percentage of whom were civilians who had nothing to do with the conflict. Add to that the number of Muslims killed in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, etc in the so-called "War on Terror".

Anyone puzzled why there might be so much hatred towards the US around the Islamic world?



Who are the real terrorist?

This thread is pure islamphobia ....




I agree but i also have to ask what causes it. And i think partly its islams lack of conformity.Islam is a strict religion and their views of right and wrong are not up for interpretation. Isalam because of its strict adherence is easily manipulated by individuals who give their interpretation and use it to gain power. Also think its funny when people say they should police there own problem is theres different versions with different beliefs sort of like telling the pope he needs to get mormons in line.
edit on 7/6/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 03:03 AM
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a reply to: wulff


Honor killing is an innovation brought out by misguided sick Muslims ...



I would like to know what the ruling on Honor killings would be and how it should be punished acording to the Laws of the Shariat.
Praise be to Allaah.
Killing a Muslim unlawfully is a serious matter and a grave crime. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell to abide therein; and the Wrath and the Curse of Allaah are upon him, and a great punishment is prepared for him”

[al-Nisa’ 4:93] 

al-Bukhaari (6355) narrated from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The believer will continue to be encompassed by the mercy of Allaah so long as he does not shed blood that it is forbidden to shed.” 

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has explained to us the reasons for which it becomes permissible to shed this blood. He said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god but Allaah and that I am the Messenger







 
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