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My solution to Islam (from a western POV)

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posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

We have a differing opinion about recent SCOTUS decisions and the direction of the US it seems. Fair enough.


The answer to religious violence is to address the problems as they arise, which are many.

The answer is not to categorize any group of people that numbers at over 1.5 billion people world wide as all being the same with the same agendas, the same approaches, the same criminal actions, etc.

Its as foolish as what we do here at ATS on a smaller scale (myself included) when we bandy about terms like "the left" does this or "the right" does that. We are individuals, we have differing levels of political beliefs and practices.

To me the problem is overgeneralization. When we decided that getting Al Qaeda gave us impunity to kill Afghanis and Iraqis, we started a chain of events that will breed more extremists for a hundred years.

As you say above, we need to find a way to STOP it. Us, them, us and them, all of us are on this planet.

And we need to learn to live together ...




posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
And we need to learn to live together ...

That can only be done with a 'live and let live' philosophy.
That doesn't work with a bronze age mentality.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: demus

I'm truly baffled by your ignorance of history.

This has been going on way before the US was created.

Pick up a book, go to the library and question your beliefs. You might learn something.


the story you mentioned about Sunni/Shia that made you open this thread was going on "way before the US was created"?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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a reply to: demus

Huh? Haven't had much sleep?

The war between Shia and Sunni began way before the US was created.

The thing is, while they have been at war with each other for centuries, they have also managed to drag almost every one else into it, one way or another, for better or worse. This has been going on for centuries.

Try reading other books or thoughts that challenge you. You may learn a few things.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:17 AM
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originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: demus

I'm truly baffled by your ignorance of history.

This has been going on way before the US was created.

Pick up a book, go to the library and question your beliefs. You might learn something.


the story you mentioned about Sunni/Shia that made you open this thread was going on "way before the US was created"?



Serious question, are you an agitator or are you just pretending to be this ignorant in an attempt to stymie the right wing? You cannot, absolutely cannot be ignorant of the thousands of years of inter-sect violence in Islam.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: stargatetravels
I honestly cannot comprehend, how on a site where the motto is Deny ignorance, somebody could make a thread essentially advocating and justifying genocide - and that the thread would be firstly allowed but secondly flagged.
This could have been ripped straight out of the Norway mass murderer Anders Brievik's manifesto.
This wouldn't be out of place on stormftont or some other hate site.

ATS should be ashamed for allowing this to be posted.


genocide of who? fanatical killer islamists? is that a bad thing?

or are you saying moderate peaceful muslims are the same and people are advocating killing all muslims?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: tsingtao

I was thinking the same as well. That poster was the one denying ignorance as far as I am concerned. Denying the facts, denying the genocide of others, etc, etc.

No wonder the world is going to hell in a handbasket with people like that walking around.

Reality is a B*tch that they would rather not face.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere
a reply to: FlyersFan

You truly are an ignorant fool ...

Constantly spreading lies and disinformation these boards about Islam.
No mater how many times my self and other members tell your copy and pasted bias information is most often always propaganda and the product of someone's wrongful interpretation and innovation you continue to be a fear mongering cancer .

Its disgusting ....




Today, most Western opinions of what life would be like for non-Muslims under Islamic rule are based on ignorance and fear. This fear is compounded further by media reports about behaviors in “Muslim” countries that most Americans -- ignorant of Al-Islam -- take to be Sharia Law. Repeatedly, mainstream media reports on “practices” in such countries as Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries -- whose “Laws” DO NOT REPRESENT true Sharia Law -- as sterling examples of Sharia rule. In many of these countries, Sharia is mixed with non-Islamic cultural practices, contrary to the objectives and intentions of the Sharia. Western media has associated Sharia Law with cruelty, backwardness, intolerance, anti modernism and opposed to democratic goals such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our aim is to dispel some of these myths surrounding Sharia Law, and show it in its true light.

It is interesting to note that in 1602, after 800 years of Sharia rule and right after the Christians recaptured Spain, one of the great charges the Christians brought against Muslims was that Muslims were too tolerant in religion. The Archbishop of Valencia, in recommending the expulsion of Muslims from Spain stated:



www.ascertainthetruth.com...:dispelling-myths-about-sharia-law-in-al-islam-part-1-&catid=64:un derstanding-al-islam&Itemid=53






sounds like a personal attack on FF.

anyway, where are these magical sharia law countries with truth and justice for all?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:35 AM
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a reply to: tsingtao

Don't ask questions such as that. They can't reply in truth.

Unless Islam reforms, the Cult of Allah will be a footnote in history.

Unfortunately, a lot of good people will die in the meantime.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Unfortunately, there are dangerous radicals and fanatics within any religion and it is kind of unfair to paint them all, including the moderates, with a very wide brush. Like with any religion, those radicals and fanatics have to be either ignored by the vast majority of same religion moderates, or they have to be excised like a cancer. Fanatics come in all walks of life including political, greed and power fanatics, and personally I think they should all be put into places where they can be neutralized or cause no damage to the rest of society.

I know moderate Muslims and they are just like anyone else, any normal, rational and sociologically balanced person. It's the Muslims that can be swayed over to the radical/militant/fanatical viewpoint that can be a serious problem. Muslims can be very protectionist when it comes to doing work for them, even moderates, because they don't want the rules of their religion breached, but as long as you understand the rules of their religion and show the same amount of respect you would expect for yourself (which is pretty much like anyone else), there really are no problems. Ramadan is this month, I won't do prayers with them because I don't subscribe to any organized religion and I won't "fake it," but I would fast with them simply because it's good for your immune system.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:42 AM
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This is as ridiculous an idea (mildly offensive even) as I have seen over the years when Westerners project their holier than now ideas on belief systems which they have no right in. The change has to come from within and a soon as the West decides to leave its Crusades past where it belongs, you will continue to see the extremism you talk about.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

Because people funded it who wanted the conflict to exist.

(not rhetorical)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

A lot of good people die in the name of many things... not just "religion".

A lot of innocent people died in the name of communism and democracy to. ANY belief, whether that belief is secular or religious, when some decide to go around inflicting it upon others means a lot of good people die... simply because not everyone is going to share the same view.

A thing might be good in one place, and detrimental to another place. Every system has a place where it is good for people, and places where that same system is bad for people.

The people in the place should be the ones deciding their own futures, and what system works best for them.

Religion is not, however, the root of all evil. The root of all evil is inside man - within a love of greed and power. That is found in anything, not just religion.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:02 AM
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originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: beezzer

Because people funded it who wanted the conflict to exist.

(not rhetorical)


You can pour money into something all day long.

It takes people that want war for it to continue.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:06 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: beezzer

Because people funded it who wanted the conflict to exist.

(not rhetorical)


You can pour money into something all day long.

It takes people that want war for it to continue.


… and governments, corporations, despotic individuals, ideologies, the poor, the rich, the inbetweeners, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, …



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

Yes this is true.

When you look at end times prophecy... you have to look at it from the point of view of the people who were doing the original writing, and those doing the original reading.

The "world" back then, was pretty darn small, consisting mainly of the middle east as the heart of it, with some outer elements as well... parts of russia, and persia etc were seen as elements far far away.

Therefore, when you look at the prophecy of the end times, whether you are reading from the christian books or the jewish books or the islamic books, you are looking at a world where the middle east is pretty much all of it.

However, what all those books say, is that in the end of all these wars and things that happen in the "world" is that all this ends with a judgement day for all people...

So if all the prophecy is mainly pertaining solely to the middle east alone, why does it end up with all people facing a judgement before God?

That is because of alliances, as we see from the Christian books of prophecy... The Kings of the North fight against the Kings of the South because of alliances formed from countries within the world where all these things are taking places...

this is what happens and why all people end up in judgement. Because of alliances. If it weren't for alliances, none of the end times prophecies would effect anyone else but those living in the middle east...

just something to go hmmmm about.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

People who, without the aid, would be sitting at home complaining... instead of waging a war.
edit on 6-7-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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Religious differences have been the cause of the VAST majority of war and murder throughout human history.

Religion removes personal responsibility from the equation and allows for "it's god's will" as the ultimate excuse for terribleness. Every religion is guilty... Islam just happens to be the flavor of the day (or last few centuries).

The problem is, nobody wants to admit that if we gave ourselves a little more credit instead of turning everything over to an imaginary man in the clouds, we could make some progress. Religion just adds one more trait to the "you're different" checklist.
edit on 7/6/2014 by Answer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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originally posted by: LarryLove
The change has to come from within and a soon as the West decides to leave its Crusades past where it belongs, you will continue to see the extremism you talk about.


The west is not the cause, or the solution.

Islam isn't extreme because of extremists. It is extreme when adhered to and followed by the strictest interpretations of Islam. There is one face of Islam presented to the majority of the world, without it, Islam would certainly die. The other face of Islam the true face is pure evil. If you don't know this yet or haven't been exposed to it personally, you will eventually.

The burden of proof is not on non Muslims, it is on ALL Muslims from all walks of life, all sects to prove that Islam is not inherently dangerous and evil. To cry out in condemnation of barbaric actions of "Muslims" in such great numbers that it cannot be ignored, to end the oppression of women, and abuse of young girls, the brutal, murderous persecution and intolerance of all other ideologies and faiths that are not their own.

They wont, at least not in significant enough numbers. Their unique brand of brutality, oppression and evil will only continue to spread until the world sees it for what it really is.

imo


edit on 6-7-2014 by ausername because: P



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

There was no reason for the US to ever get involved that's the thing. US involvement has only worsened anything already going on there by several degrees of magnitude, our involvement has only caused destabilization which causes all new problems to arise. Even if we look at the whole picture from the POV of the imperialists we are, Saudi Arabia is the only nation we ever needed to protect and no terrorists or Middle East nations have ever really threatened Saudi Arabia. Israel should be left on its own and always should have been. They wanted that area, they should have fought for it on their own and they should defend it on their own. In all honesty what the hell is in it for the US? Nothing but a money sink and a fitting label of hypocrites. I have nothing against the Jewish faith but Israeli policy and US defense of it is wrong.

The US has earned every ounce of hatred directed towards us coming from the ME... and yet Americans cry about how Islam harms us, how it's bad and nothing but violence. It's galling to me, that we cry about harm to our troops (yes I care about them, get them the fk out!), our military facilities, our defense (LOL) contractors being targeted while it is ALL happening OVER THERE, in their backyards, at their schools, at their places of worship. What has happened here at home? One horrible day and I would never trivialize that day or the lives lost nor would I deny praise to the heroics we saw that day and the following days but still it was one day 13 years ago and there hasn't been an attack on US soil since, so how are they the ones out to get us?

It seems to me that they are on the defense from without and from within.







 
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