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My solution to Islam (from a western POV)

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posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
The SCOTUS just awarded religious rights to corporations!!!
If anything, the US is headed toward theocracy, rather than secularism..


Not exactly. It just said that a 'closely held' company (i.e. a family owned business) can be run by the family according to their religious beliefs. That means a Catholic family can refuse to pay for abortions of employees who agree to work for them; that an owner of a limo company who is Muslim can disallow alcoholic beverages in his limo. That kind of thing.

The USA is a secular rule of law nation. It's not headed the other way at all ... IMHO. Secular rule of law protects religious rights like those I mentioned while at the same time it protects the country from religious rule of law.




posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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originally posted by: dmfsb

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: FlyersFan

Except with the secular rule of law, we eventually wind up with societies in which no religion is respected at all.



And the sooner that day comes the better, certainly with regard to the Abrahamic religions. The only religions that should have traction are the Wicca beliefs and Budhism, or anything else that promotes love and peace.


so you are competent to decide which religions should "have traction"?

you additional statement "or anything else that promotes love and peace" really proves you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

luckily we will never see any of you in place of power.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: ketsuko

Trending? The SCOTUS just awarded religious rights to corporations!!!

If anything, the US is headed toward theocracy, rather than secularism.

Right before our eyes, indeed.


Don't drink that Kool-Aid. The ruling was extremely narrow. A business must be held by a narrow group of individuals, and the ruling wasn't even made with the 1st Amendment, but over another piece of legislation entirely which can be amended by Congress. Also, the court ruled that the government failed to prove that they enforced the mandate by the least restrictive means since they had already crafted exemptions for nonprofits and other organizations that are similar to Hobby Lobby ... so why not extend that to businesses too? No, instead the government decided they would either comply or be taxed out of business.

Since the legislation existed and a government crafted and approved exemption already existed ... the Court found the counter arguments unconvincing in the case of businesses like Hobby Lobby which are still the privately held properly of a small family group of individuals.

Now, had it been a publically traded company trying to make this argument, I think the ruling would have gone the other way because in that case, no one is being compelled to use their private property counter to their conscience.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The SCOTUS just awarded religious rights to corporations!!!
If anything, the US is headed toward theocracy, rather than secularism..


Not exactly. It just said that a 'closely held' company (i.e. a family owned business) can be run by the family according to their religious beliefs. That means a Catholic family can refuse to pay for abortions of employees who agree to work for them; that an owner of a limo company who is Muslim can disallow alcoholic beverages in his limo. That kind of thing.

The USA is a secular rule of law nation. It's not headed the other way at all ... IMHO. Secular rule of law protects religious rights like those I mentioned while at the same time it protects the country from religious rule of law.


With great respect for you and your statements, in general, I have to disagree in this case. Hobby Lobby sets dangerous legal precedent, which is already being used beyond the supposedly "narrow limits" imposed in the decision.

Off-topic here though. Secular USA and Separation of Church and State for the win!


(post by dmfsb removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:29 AM
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Wrong thread. Sorry.
edit on 7/6/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:29 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

It doesn't bother you at all to know that we are one vote away from losing that protection? As narrow the decision was and it's proper, it was still one that was one vote away from not being. One vote from losing that protection for freedom of conscience.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
With great respect to you and your statements ... we'll agree to disagree and engage in this on a different thread.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex



ADD:
recall the Irish Republican Army, terror years, lots of bombings/shootings between Catholics & Protestants. the churches & pulpits were a mainstream conduit to incite these terror acts...just as the Imam of the local Mosque gives an OK for beheadings, murders, slaughter of Shias police/civilians/army deserters to ISIS....

~same kind of thing going on in Islam & it grew after the Russians and then Americans started poking that caged predator with a stick ~


 


there is a lot of accepting radical Preachers sermons from the pulpit during those Irish terror decades

there is a lot of current Imam's at Mosques telling the worshipers that beheadings, stoneings, crucifixitions, civilian slaughter is OK

there is even the WH which elevates the Muslim Brotherhood to Cabinet & Agency leadership positions in the Administration...
consider this excerpt of just what the Muslim Brotherhood is:


...establishing an effective and stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood which adopts Muslims’ causes domestically and globally, and which works to expand the observant Muslim base, aims at unifying and directing Muslims’ efforts, presents Islam as a civilization alternative, and supports the global Islamic state, wherever it is.

source: www.independentsentinel.com...


Well, radical Islam, the ISIS, now known as Islamic State is totally supported by MB...it is said right in front of you ...the MB whole purpose of existence is to promote & serve the 'IS' ~wherever it is on the globe~
the same current 'IS' which is invading the sovereign nation of democratic Iraq


Just How will radical Jihad be quelled when the USA & POTUS support & employ MB as a policy maker... who in turn supports the 'Islamic State' in their invasion & inhumanity of both Iraq & Syria
No wonder Obama only sent perhaps 750 personnel to defend only the US Embassy instead of aiding the democratically elected Iraq government and peoples...he would be stepping on the toes of the radical MB

there can be no peace

edit on th31140466075606322014 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:34 AM
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originally posted by: demus
luckily we will never see any of you in place of power.

Yeah, because Imams preaching how to beat women who dare to leave their homes by themselves is so much better.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity
Um ... are you thinking of the other thread? I'm not sure how your post fits.
ATS THREAD
Or did I miss something??? I can't follow what you are addressing.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

It's a business owned and operated by a family. They are not a tax-exempt entity.

I don't see the US becoming a theocracy. I see most people going about their daily business.

If Christians, or Jehovah Witnesses or Buddhists started beheading, blowing up churches and committing all sorts of nefarious deeds, I would be against them as well.

Don't even bother to bring up the past as I do know my history. But the hing is, that was in the past and oft times, we learned from it.

I started this thread because I know families, both Sunni and Shia, in Iraq that have dropped off the face of the earth, with the exception of Kurdish families (the KRG seems to has their act together). I don't know if they are on the run, in a refugee camp or in a shallow grave. All I know is that Islam, of many sects, have brought them to this point. It sickens me.

At what point does Islam recognized that they are digging their own grave? People like to point out that drone strike make terrorists...well the reverse is true as well when they post beheadings and wanton executions on the internet. What goes around, comes around. They say they do it because of Allah...the rest of the world conducts their strikes because we think they are criminals and terrorists.

The more they do it...the more we do it as well, and round and round it goes.

I do feel bad for feeling this way, but I'm thinking the world would be a better place without Islam at the moment. Maybe their leaders should grow up and join the rest of us in the 21st century.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

Go back 300 years and protestants and catholics were terrorising each other. No different. The solution is the same though, the moderate people have to tire of the extremists to the extent that the extremist is shunned from society. However, back then the lunatics had at best a one shot musket and a sword, today the lunatic has machine guns and anti aircraft missiles. This makes the transition much more difficult.

So the solution is to let the middle east run its course. This will result in millions of deaths , however, interfering and attempting to manipulate the course of history results in the same number of deaths. What we can do is capture and try in international courts anyone guilty of war crimes. If that person is royalty....tough, no mercy.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: FlyersFan

I corrected it before. You must have been typing.
edit on 7/6/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: dmfsb

once again, empty words...

or you (again) don't have valid answer?

why do you think you are entitled to choose which religion or teaching should be "allowed" and which not?

“Meditation brings wisdom; lack of mediation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what hold you back, and choose the path that leads to wisdom.”



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: TDawgRex

excuse me if I'm wrong but I thought it was invasion of Iraq by USA and allies that left chaos with local warlords having their way in their local area of influence.

are you really going to pretend like "they just hate each other for centuries"?

"the West" is responsible for great deal of this mess and I am truly baffled by the level of ignorance you and other are presenting in that matter.


(post by dmfsb removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: yorkshirelad

With todays tech, internet, flights across the world, etc. We have a opportunity to radically change the way the world operates. Priests, Imams, Rabbi's, Monks, etc, etc are political and religious figures. There is power in those positions. They have followings.

Instead of Governments across the world backing whoever that can fill their pockets, maybe they should instead vigorously vet individuals that can bring about a semblance of peace and back them instead. The way I see it is that a peaceful world would be a profitable world.

Of course, the MIC would be all annoyed at that.

You are right though. Make those who create injustice, fear justice.

Of course that would create more lawyers...who I also dislike intensely.



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:03 AM
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originally posted by: dmfsb

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: dmfsb

once again, empty words...

or you (again) don't have valid answer?

why do you think you are entitled to choose which religion or teaching should be "allowed" and which not?

“Meditation brings wisdom; lack of mediation leaves ignorance. Know well what leads you forward and what hold you back, and choose the path that leads to wisdom.”


Oh do shut up you stupid little girl.


oh, thank you.

are you done so we can return to question posed?



posted on Jul, 6 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: demus

I'm truly baffled by your ignorance of history.

This has been going on way before the US was created.

Pick up a book, go to the library and question your beliefs. You might learn something.



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