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The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

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posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

That's NOT what he said.

Catholic Register - Pope Says Church is a Family That Welcomes and Teaches Us


Observing how our relationship with God “is personal but not private,” he stated that our journey of faith “is born of and enriched by the communion of the Church.”

“Whoever says they believe in God but not in the Church, has a direct relation with Christ outside of her, falls into an absurd dichotomy,” he noted, stating that “God has confided his saving message to human persons, to witnesses, and it is known to us through our brothers and sisters.”

However, to walk our path in the Church is not always easy, because “at times we encounter human weakness, limitations and even scandal in the life of the Church,” the Holy Father said.

But even so, “God has called us to know him and to love him precisely by loving our brothers and sisters, by persevering in the fellowship of the Church and by seeking in all things to grow in faith and holiness as members of the one body of Christ.”
Concluding his address, Pope Francis encouraged those present to keep in mind that, “as Christians, we cannot disregard the other, the Church; we cannot save ourselves on our own.”


He said that a personal relationship with Christ comes through the Church. That if you have a personal relationship with Christ, it's because it was brought to you by the Church. That the Church takes care of that relationship and helps it grow. He was stating that, without the church, it can wither away.

I agree and disagree with his statement.

The Church brought us scripture which brings us Jesus. The Church also brought us the great writings of the saints and the awesome prayers and mediations that bring us closer to God. But the legalities of the Church, as helpful as they can be, can also be a hinderance to many.


Poppy pants is still wrong. I did not find God in a church. The Vatican church is no longer representing the truth but spreading lies. God no longer walks down the halls of the Vatican. The devil does.


So am I to understand that every practicing Christian has the authority to declare themselves of greater spiritual integrity than the Vatican and its leaders? Seems a little broken to me. Also seems a little presumptuous, in that you are deciding on "God"s behalf the Pope's worth as a spiritual leader.
edit on 7-7-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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Maybe the example of Mary and Martha can help here.

Luke 10:38-42 New International Version (NIV)

At the Home of Martha and Mary
38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39 She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. 40 But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!”

41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.[a] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

Martha represents the active life of involvement in Church and society. Sustaining the society and the dominant religion.

Mary represents the contemplative life of disengagement from Church and societal affairs, relatively speaking. It's the life of the monk, pilgrim, mystic, desert hermit. It's the life of direct mystical contact of lover and beloved, and it is beyond the reach of orthodoxy.

But not everyone is cut out for that life. It's a full-time job. Contemplatives are called by God, and they have little or no business interferring with the affairs of 'actives'.


edit on 805MondayuAmerica/ChicagoJuluMondayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: Wifibrains

He said to do the research and I did. His youtube links to this website: www.wucnews.com...

which contains this video:

www.youtube.com...=36

In this video it is reported that the Catholic news service reported this story on June 25, 2014. This is where I called HOAX.

I follow the Official Vatican Network on Facebook "News.Va English".

News.Va keeps a running report on the Pope's daily activiies: who he sees, highlights of his homilies, what is discussed in interviews his journal, etc. Where he goes and what he does is all spelled out.

On June 23 - "Pope in Calabria: No to mafia. Mafiosi are excommunicated" (Saw that on Drudge BTW)
On June 20: -"Pope Francis leads Corpus Domini celebrations"
Does this sound anything like DaBoo7 is saying?"

In his homily, Pope Francis reflected on memory – understood as remembrance and recollection, but also and even primarily as the orienting presence of the past and the presence of the future in our personal and common consciousness. Working out of the reading proclaimed from the Book of Deuteronomy, in which Moses recalls the Lord’s saving action to the attention of His forgetful people, Pope Francis said, “Each of us can ask ourselves: what is my memory? That of the Lord, who saves me, or that of the garlic and onions of slavery? With what memory do I satiate my soul? The Father tells us: ‘I have fed you with manna which you did not know.’ Let us recover memory,” said Pope Francis. “This is the task,” he continued, “to recover memory; and learn to recognize the false bread that deceives and corrupts, because it is the result of selfishness, self and sin.”


I think you guys need to follow the Pope and see what he is really doing. You might be majorly surprised.

Oh yeah, the Pope's next activity was on June 28, 2014 "Pope Francis meets Delegation of Ecumenical Patriarchate"




edit on 7/7/2014 by sad_eyed_lady because: change it to is



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Not necessarily, you can receive great comfort and aid in your walk by listening to the council of others, including wise pastors and priests. And it can strengthen you to take fellowship with other believers in group setting like a church.

But in the end, what defines your salvation is internal. A priest can attempt to guide you and help set your feet on the way, but unless you are the one who completes the journey nothing even the pope can do will help you.

Or, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: TKDRL

Dear TKDRL,

Perhaps I should stop using analogies for a while until I'm better at them.

Let's return to the man dying in the desert for want of water. His rescuer shows up with the water. Now let's assume he just puts the jug next to the man. (You certainly don't think he's going to pry open the man's throat and force him to drink it, do you?)

The dying man looks up and says "It's you? I've always hated you and everything you stand for. You're a fascist slave holder, a liar, and the Devil. I'd rather die than get help from you, you scum. I'm too proud to accept your help. Now, go away. I never want to see you again."

"Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heav'n" (Satan, Milton's Paradise Lost) There are people who believe that.

Pride is considered by some to be the root of all other sins.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: TKDRL

What do you see when you look in the mirror?

You can look all over the universe for God an never, ever find him. You'll only see Him when you get past yourself first.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Of course without the church it will wither and die. Just like any cult, you have to keep being inundated with it's teachings and fear mongering of hell or you, dare I say it, use your own brain.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: fenson76

What an odd post.

I can't speak for every Christian, but I am not motivated by the fear of Hell. Rather, by my love for God. I am not running away from something, I am running toward Someone.

When one gets married, the uppermost question is, "Do I love my spouse-to-be? A deep, true, holy, love that will see us through anything?" Normal people don't ask, "If I don't marry her will I be doomed to loneliness forever?" That's unhealthy, and it's doubtful whether such a marriage will survive. In fact, the Church says that if you're getting married under that kind of psychic pressure, the marriage may be annulled.

And if you're concerned about Christians not using their brains, please note the great philosophers and scientists who were Christians. Brains are one of God's gifts to us. He wants us to use them, He wants us to find truth. He already has mindless creatures of the fields and waters. It's for His purposes that we have brains.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: charles1952

I was raised in private christian schools. Once I got away from that, I started seeing that there is much more to life than thinking if I didn't believe in something I was going to hell or that the world is only 7k years old. I'm not speaking as an outsider. I am speaking as someone who was right in the middle of it. When I left the military, I still believed what I was told but then I started noticing the great hypocrisy of those that preached love for all. I noticed that the further I was away from the church that I was believing in absolute nonsense. I was taught to fear and love God...that is so messed up. Hell, when Bill Clinton was elected, we all wore black armbands. I also remember one day when my history teacher (a man I looked up to) told us that Frank Zappa died and he was so happy he was going to "pop open a ginger ale". It's that kind of hypocrisy that I couldn't see through until I wasn't forced to go to church 3 times a week.
I must add that I still believe in God...just not what religion has perverted it into.
edit on 7/7/2014 by fenson76 because: The power of Christ compelled me.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: charles1952


Normal people don't ask, "If I don't marry her will I be doomed to loneliness forever?" That's unhealthy, and it's doubtful whether such a marriage will survive.


But that's the typical sales pitch right there. Hell is nothing if not a propaganda device. Remember the old stories about the Krampus?



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: ParasuvO

I don't care about religion OR dogma, because they are both creations of man. I care about what the Bible says, specifically the New Testament, not what some other man thinks it says. Having said that, there is only ONE religion acceptable to God... James 1:27


Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



Notice the absence of man made denomination and man made dogma. Notice the absence of man made extra biblical tradition. Religion, as defined by the Bible, is VERY simple. It is man who makes it hard, annoying and tiresome.

edit on 7-7-2014 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
So am I to understand that every practicing Christian has the authority to declare themselves of greater spiritual integrity than the Vatican and its leaders?


Just what spiritual integrity has the Vatican and its leaders got? If they had any at all they would not cover up and protect paedophile priests.



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
So am I to understand that every practicing Christian has the authority to declare themselves of greater spiritual integrity than the Vatican and its leaders?


Just what spiritual integrity has the Vatican and its leaders got? If they had any at all they would not cover up and protect paedophile priests.


Hellocbruce,

No one can deny what a horrible thng has happened. It is heartbreaking. You know the time to clean house is long overdue and this Pope is telling the victims and the world how he feels about it.

Pope: Bishops Must Be Held Accountable for Abuse


"Before God and his people, I express my sorrow for the sins and grave crimes of clerical sexual abuse committed against you. And I humbly ask forgiveness," Francis said.


He can start with my Archbishop.

The world will be watching to see if it happens. I pray that it does very soon.

Pope's Homily at Mass with Victims of Sexual Abuse


edit on 7/7/2014 by sad_eyed_lady because: add link



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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Just skimmed through but wouldn't a personal relationship with Christ equate to less money for the churches? Or is this just a coincidence?



posted on Jul, 7 2014 @ 11:12 PM
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originally posted by: sad_eyed_lady
The world will be watching to see if it happens. I pray that it does very soon.


No, they are still covering it up and protecting the paedophiles.

www.abc.net.au...


Child sexual abuse royal commission: Vatican declines request to provide all documents relating to Australian priests


Also they are upset the Royal Commission in Australia may be extended.

www.news.com.au...


Fr Brennan said on Thursday the Catholic Church, as the main organisation under the commission's scrutiny, had spent years trying to develop protocols to deal with sexual abuse. "(But) what we have heard from the commission so far would seem to be that the Catholic Church protocols are not worth the paper they are written on," he told AAP.


Their "protocol" was just to cover up the abuse and hide the priest and let them abuse elsewhere. So as we can see they are not interested in stopping the abuse, just interested in continuing to cover it up.

Why does it take years to develop a protocol? How about "Stop kiddy fiddling or you will be reported to the police"



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: hellobruce




Why does it take years to develop a protocol? How about "Stop kiddy fiddling or you will be reported to the police"



Not to derail the thread, I will just say: "No man should be above the law."



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 12:42 AM
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originally posted by: interupt42
Just skimmed through but wouldn't a personal relationship with Christ equate to less money for the churches? Or is this just a coincidence?






You do have a point there



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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a reply to: Wifibrains

This is a rather odd statement I agree fellowship is very important so as to strengthen faith by sharing with other believers and of course to work together to do the lords will and do unto others as he did by giving of themselves...
However it was your Lord and Salvation who when asked how we should pray to God instructed that we should lock ourselves in a closet to do so...
Know your relationship with him is a personal one and although he loves us all equally he wants us all to himself because that's what we all need surrender yourself to his will and praise him!
edit on 8-7-2014 by 5StarOracle because: Spell on you



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:22 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Kind of reminds me of this -
"If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. " President Obama.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 06:34 AM
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a reply to: BlueMule

41 “Martha, Martha,” the Lord answered, “you are worried and upset about many things, 42 but few things are needed—or indeed only one.[a] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her.”

If that be the case, then Martha should have stopped what she was doing and joined Mary...then there would be nobody to fix dinner.

I say, there is time and place for every thing, and some of us can and some of us can't (attain that personal relationship with God).
edit on 8-7-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-7-2014 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)



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