The pope condemns personal relationship with Christ

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Nochzwei

Yes and amen to that, now look at the context of that

20“I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22“The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

That is a community, that they may be one, this is the mark of following Jesus

Not that they have had an alter call, and said the magic billy graham words, and really meant it this time, and haven't backslidden, or allowed satan to steal their faith, or whatever other 19-20th century evangelical gobbledy gook the evangelists have preached, tearfully sometimes, with the solemn music playing to stir you emotionally to just come to Jesus.

No thanks, I'll take Jesus' own words and actions. There is a very marked distinction between the salvation message of churchianity, and what the bible says about it. When you start with hell as the end, and Jesus comes to save you from it, the entire foundation is built on quicksand. No matter how emotional Billy gets ya, its false.

So the definition of personal relationship is receiving Jesus ( Holy Ghost ) by His Grace alone and not thru whatever you do in your Church, be it receiving host and wine and calling this idolatrus things as God or Jesus himself, or any other ritual you are accustomed to in your churches.
Catholics may not like Billy, but he was not false or anything.

a reply to: Nochzwei

What did you just say there?? I have no clue what you were trying to get across.

If you think I'm a catholic, or part of any demon-ination you are confused. Or if I worship idols or any sacraments think again.

Billy Grahams message is false. There is no hell that you must be saved from, that is the doctrine of demons. Where is fear? Perfect love has cast it out. Turn or burn, is there fear in that message?

When Jesus warns against harming little ones, what do you think the fear of missing the boat and spending an eternity burning does to a little ones psyche?

I tell you that the message of being saved from hell is a damned lie from… hell. And no matter how sincere a person is who preaches that message, it is still a lie, a fear inducing lie.

How about this

God was in Christ reconciling the world (Kosmos all the created order) to Himself, not counting their tresspasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

That is the evangelion, that God is reconciling the whole creation to himself, so that when all things are subject to the son, then the son will be subject to the Father, that God may be all in all.

originally posted by: [post=18180892]zardust

Lol sorry my mistake.
I know Billy Grahams message is not false. For Jesus would not have died on the cross, if there was no hell to be saved. from.
Instilling fear in little ones, don't know if any mortal fear sets in a child, he just becomes aware of the dark side, which is infinitely better than not being aware of that all.

a reply to: Nochzwei

Can you point me to a chapter and verse where Jesus dies to save us from hell? It will be right next to the personal relationship requirement along with cleanliness is next to godliness.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Nochzwei

Can you point me to a chapter and verse where Jesus dies to save us from hell? It will be right next to the personal relationship requirement along with cleanliness is next to godliness.

Do you not know that Jesus himself said to Satan on the mountain: Get thee behind me satan.
I can impart whatever wisdom that comes to me thru His Grace.

a reply to: Nochzwei

Huh????

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Nochzwei

Huh????

Lol.
The second sentence is to help you understand any doubts you may have

a reply to: Nochzwei

Oh I get it I'm satan and you're Jesus in the wilderness temptation because I'm asking you to provide evidence that your vile doctrine was ever from Jesus.

Lol

That's cute. So you're saying that I'm right then by admitting you have nothing to back your statement that Jesus died to save us from hell. Got it. Did you then receive personal revelation from the father that Jesus saved from hell? Because that's what Jesus is speaking of, revelation. (Not the book). Where exactly did you get this wisdom? And there is no grace in a message that says I love you so much but if you reject me you will be tortured for eternity.

I guess the conversation is over since you've resorted to name calling and side stepping. When the spark of life comes in the future and the goodness of god is revealed to you I pray you will remember this conversation and your eyes will be opened to the glorious evangelion.

For god has shut up all in disobedience that he would have mercy on all

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever

I know it's very satan like of me to quote the scriptures.

Lol Jesus called satan, satan.
Im not calling you satan. You asked for Bible refrence to hell and I provided that. Bible acknowledges that satan exists.
a reply to: zardust

originally posted by: Nochzwei

From The Bible
When Jesus prayed for his disciples to The Father, which ends with
I in You and You in Me, so that We may be made perfect in One. We refers to The Father Jesus and the disciples.

Look up in The Bible for the full Prayer

I looked this verse up but it's not as simple as many would think. I read the whole chapter 17 of John.

Yes, the relationship is there, but it does not come first.

John 17:20-21
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Belief must come first.... ....Is belief that easy and simple?

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.


No belief, no relationship. And belief is not just that teary-eyed stuff, it's in John 14:12.

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: Nochzwei

From The Bible
When Jesus prayed for his disciples to The Father, which ends with
I in You and You in Me, so that We may be made perfect in One. We refers to The Father Jesus and the disciples.

Look up in The Bible for the full Prayer

I looked this verse up but it's not as simple as many would think. I read the whole chapter 17 of John.

Yes, the relationship is there, but it does not come first.

John 17:20-21
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Belief must come first.... ....Is belief that easy and simple?

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.


No belief, no relationship. And belief is not just that teary-eyed stuff, it's in John 14:12.

Well said Brother.
Yes its very true, you cannot get saved until you believe first.

originally posted by: Nochzwei

originally posted by: johndeere2020

originally posted by: Nochzwei

From The Bible
When Jesus prayed for his disciples to The Father, which ends with
I in You and You in Me, so that We may be made perfect in One. We refers to The Father Jesus and the disciples.

Look up in The Bible for the full Prayer

I looked this verse up but it's not as simple as many would think. I read the whole chapter 17 of John.

Yes, the relationship is there, but it does not come first.

John 17:20-21
My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

Belief must come first.... ....Is belief that easy and simple?

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.


No belief, no relationship. And belief is not just that teary-eyed stuff, it's in John 14:12.

Well said Brother.
Yes its very true, you cannot get saved until you believe first.

johndeere2020 and Nochzwei,

I like your avatar name, I grew up in small town, a farming community, a lot of John Deere.

You have to look at Scripture in context. A repeated famous verse taken out of context, you are saved by
Faith, Tebow's verse painted on his forehead...John 3:16.

Well, look a few verses further:

[20] For every one that DOTH evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his WORKS may not be reproved.


Martin Luther came up with Faith Alone, it is not of God. Works are required, we are saved by faith and works (both) with the help of God's grace. And the lie to try and prove Sola Fide, Faith makes you do a work. No way, God wants our love to be true, Faith doesn't make you do anything, we are not robots. Our free will choice is always involved.


blessings,

Its Grace alone and not works, lest a man should boast.
quit spouting catholic stuff here
a reply to: colbe

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Its Grace alone and not works, quit spouting catholic stuff here
a reply to: colbe

Truly, it is God who saves not man. "Grace" is God's presence. I said "grace", we are saved by faith and works with the help of God's grace. Two verse were just posted to show works are included in our justification.

Holy Scripture is full of "works' verses. You have to be a doer (works) of God's Will.

"Spouting" is an overused term to insult on discussion forums. It is not a kind word.

GBY,

colbe

Nochzwei,

I had to return and tell you, I love you brother. Very soon says Heaven, God is going to straighten out the differences
between Christians and ask non-Christians to come to the Faith.

16 years almost in My knowing of this gift from God coming. We are closer. People are speculating...2017, only
God knows, it could be sooner.

Check this recent NON-Catholic Christian prophecy. God's "awakening", one verse about it are in the message.
(Rev 6:15-17). All of us but a few holy people will wish to hide, for the rocks to fall on us when God shows us the
state of our soul during the NDE like life review of the Warning, Protestants hear it called the "awakening", the "revealing." Another name in Catholic prophecy, the "illumination of conscience."

The "great day" written in Rev 6:17 is the Day of the Lord. We can prepare for this day, get a daily prayer life and confess your mortal sins (sin onto death) with true contrition to God now and after whenever you commit a mortal sin! 99.8% of sexual sins are mortal, a reminder. Search an examine your conscience site if it has been along time since you confessed your sins to God dear people. An EYC site takes you through the 10 Commandments. Review
the 10 Commandments yourself if you wish. Ask God the Holy Spirit to help you.

Catholics have to GO to Confession. Prophecy says, we will not feel the spiritual pain of seeing CONFESSED
sins during the life review of God's "awakening." I remember your sins no more....fits Scripture.


Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and iniquities I will remember no more.

+ + +

"IT'S A DAY OF CHANGE"

THERE'S A CHANGE
THERE'S A CHANGE COMIN'
IT'S MOVING UPON THE HIGH TIDE
IT WILL NOT BE HIDDEN FROM VIEW
EVERY EYE WILL SEE..........
IT IS A CHANGE THAT WILL CHANGE THINGS
DRASTICALLY!

SO WHEN IT COMES DON'T SAY:
"I DIDN'T HAVE TIME TO PREPARE"
FOR MY WORD AND MY PROPHETS
SPEAK--HAVE MADE IT VERY CLEAR
THAT THE DAYS ARE UPON US
YES INDEED.....ARE IN "FULL SWING"
NATION RISING AGAINST NATION
THE EARTH TREMBLING, QUAKING AS IT SHAKES!

THE FOUNDATION BUILT BY MAN MUST GO!
BUILT UPON DECEPTION, NOT TRUTH
HAVE I NOT TOLD YOU SO?
OH YES, "THE REVEALING", IN THIS CHANGE
WILL CAUSE MANY TO FALL.....
SOME TO UTTER DESTRUCTION.....AND SOME
TO THEIR KNEES WILL "FALL AND CALL!"

I, THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, CREATOR
OF HEAVEN, EARTH, ALL THINGS
HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS DAY!
I WILL HEAR THEIR CALL.....
I WILL RESPOND AND SAY.....

LIFT YOUR HEAD UP.....
OH MY CHILDREN..... OPEN YOUR EYES
SEE!.....THAT IS ME!.....YOUR REDEEMER
COMING IN.....RIDING ON
THE HIGH TIDE"

"YES, IT IS ME.....JESUS.....GOD ALONE
BRINGING FORTH THIS
"GREAT DAY OF CHANGE"
FOR IT IS MY DESIRE THAT ALL
WOULD COME TO REPENTANCE
TO TRUST IN, REST ON, CALL UPON
MY NAME!"

"FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHOULD NOT
PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.
FOR GOD DID NOT SEND HIS SON INTO THE WORLD
TO CONDEMN THE WORLD, BUT THAT THE
WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED."
JOHN 3:16-17 [nkjv]

"THE HIGH TIDE OF MY CHANGE IS FORMED
HAS NOW COME INTO VIEW
REPENT AND TURN FROM YOUR WAYS"...


HOLY SPIRIT INSPIRED
through Drema Hearn
July 14, 2014

www.openheaven.com...

I was in a hurry, did not proof...

"is" instead of "are"

Check this recent NON-Catholic Christian prophecy. God's "awakening", one verse about it IS in the message.
(Rev 6:15-17).

a reply to: Nochzwei

Nope you didn't, you misquoted what Jesus said to Satan, and then some how it applies to Jesus saving us from hell.

I'm sorry to call you out. Satan does not = hell. And nowhere in that passage does it mention hell or Jesus saving us from it. So I'll ask again, maybe to another poster if they can show me where it says Jesus died to save us from hell.

In fact nowhere is satan ever seen in hell in the bible. He is seen in heaven though. Peter is also called Satan. So maybe every time Jesus is talking to Peter he is in talking about hell. The bible acknowledges that Peter/Satan exists after all.

originally posted by: colbe

I like your avatar name, I grew up in small town, a farming community, a lot of John Deere.

You have to look at Scripture in context. A repeated famous verse taken out of context, you are saved by
Faith, Tebow's verse painted on his forehead...John 3:16.

Thank you. I once lived some 30 kms from a farming community and I acquired this habit of driving around rural towns in dirt roads in the hills regardless of the weather. It was absolutely the most beautiful thing to me. Last time I did was 2012. I live far away from rural places now and missing it so bad. John Deere products reminded me of my rural town adventures although I never own any John Deere product.

John 3:16 and John 14:12 goes hand in hand. Belief seems to require some solid evidence.

originally posted by: Nochzwei
Its Grace alone and not works, lest a man should boast.
quit spouting catholic stuff here
a reply to: colbe

It takes more work to sin, less work to not sin. That is why Jesus said "my yoke is light and easy"

I think what Paul meant is doing extra good works like becoming a philantrophist or preaching 12 hours a day in the streets.

Yes, doing those things is not required for salvation nor earns us bigger rewards in Heaven.


However, we should become blameless - not cause others to sin which could mean "laying low" or keeping a low profile.

A reply to your above posts. You are in delusion.
Covet to personal relationship with Jesus, as I can discern you are far from it. God's Grace is available to all.
a reply to: colbe