The Seeming Rise in Police Brutality Cases: Why? Can we Hypothesize Productively?

a reply to: daaskapital

I tend to agree with your position. I feel there has been a very poor job training in escalation of force encounters and I think this, with an overall societal desensitization to violence, is the cause.

: TorqueyThePig

Fantastic explanation of what is happening and I expect it is reflected over in the UK although our police use to get cheaper mortgages and other help, especially with housing etc so the best perks seem to be removed.

One older policeman said to me that many of the younger ones coming in don 't relate to his age group so well and as some of them are Graduates they are fast-tracked so the experience gained is not enough before they take higher office and they act more like a text book rather that an experienced police officer.

Your point about the military is very right I suspect. If you come out of the Services here you use to be able to access jobs like Police, Fire fighters etc over the heads of normal civilian applicants because you have already demonstrated the qualities the Service is looking for. However our forces do seem to have become more combatant than helpful, especially to young men who obviously offer the most challeng.

The idea of the Police role to protect the public from criminals and danger has eloped somewhat into protecting the elite and powerful from the public today.

Sorry your Force is loosing you but I can see why. Funny how the respect for the pay for certain professions such as Police and Nurses etc is disasterously low, despite what the paymaster politicians wail.

a reply to: imwilliam

Yeah I am thinking ties to the community is probably the best idea.

I also understand what you mean by the age thing. I began my career at 21 years of age. However, I have been told that I have always been mature for my age.....

a reply to: mwood

You have two cops in your family. I've worked around them and with them for years. I'd agree that the situation appears to be getting worse because there's more timely coverage. But my experience adds to that another two components. One is the younger cops don't seem to be as well trained as they used to be. Second, the older, more experienced cops tell me that they're having an increasingly difficult time sorting out the crazies from the "regular" crook and worse, the crazies exhibit disproportionate damage because of weird drugs they take.

Just what I'm seeing and hearing in my "neck of the woods".

a reply to: BO XIAN

The police are a protected class of citizen that is above the law. They even have unions to make things more asymmetrical. They've even gone so far in some areas and legislated in their own "bill of rights". They don't even have to report statistics on deadly force, injuries of suspects in custody, internal investigations, reprimands, citizen complaints.

Seriously. The citizens are brainwashed with the idea that LEOs are a notch or two better than the scary criminals. If everyone treated them like the racketeering scum they are, the forces and SWAT would be defunded and dissolved. It's the only way to get rid of them. The courts are very supportive of the criminal scum. That will be harder to fix. Corruption and out of control private corporations are the threat, not common crimes or terrorism.

The US citizens have created, or allowed to be created a monster here. It will not last. Tell everyone you know. This mafia will be removed by the citizens one way or another.

a reply to: Shiloh7

Another great observation by you.

There are a good amount of candidates that basically graduate high school, finish their Bachelor's and instantly become an officer.

They have the book smarts but not necessarily the common sense or life experience. Of course this not all of them.

a reply to: BO XIAN

My conjecture is it is because they are being ordered to.
They also take the people psychologically with tendencies to the violent and authoritarian and put them in the role of peace officer and mediator. These thugs shouldn't have a badge and gun.

a reply to: th3dudeabides

Considering the high rate of the type of people who want to be cops having a chips on their shoulder and out to flaunt their "augh-thor-au-tay".
I highly doubt it's under orders........

I think it is easy to explain with two words: more and less.
Some words below apply to the police and just as many apply to the other people.
For me these two lists sum up the reason for the tempest that we find ourselves in.
Like anything both sides are responsible and like anything both sides will be needed to fix it.

MORE
More tension
more laws
more crime
more criminals
more cameras
more people
more training
more regulations
more paperwork
more drunks
more drugs users
more homeless
more news
more anger
more frustration
more selfish behavior
more reactions
more paranoia
more desperation

LESS
less people to do the work
less common sense
less understanding
less respect
less patience
less thinking
less talking
less jobs

No one mentioned cell phone cameras?

Less than 10 years ago, not everyone had their camera handy all the time.

Police (at least some) have ALWAYS abused their power when they could get away with it. We just get to see it now.

But I agree the military background plus shows like Nancy Grace and Cops might be making the situation worse.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Yeah I am thinking ties to the community is probably the best idea.

I also understand what you mean by the age thing. I began my career at 21 years of age. However, I have been told that I have always been mature for my age.....

You know I really am thinking this through as I go so I'm a little back and forth. My brother started in law enforcement in his mid 20's, but he'd been an MP before that and had a family . . . so he had a little more mileage/experience than a lot of people in their 20's. I don't know, but I suspect he was a good cop. I say all that to acknowledge that their are exceptions.

I'll also say that I'm not a fan of hard and fast rules, I'd prefer that people in authority exercised good judgment. If one throws up an age limit like 30, a residency requirement of 5 years and a gap between military service and civilian law enforcement of 5 years you might solve some problems but you're also going to miss out on some good officers.

Maybe it comes down to needing a better selection process/screening. I agree with you that ties/investment in the community should be a big factor in that process. Then the other issue becomes how to we keep the "good ones" (or fewer of the good ones), from "going bad" over the years.

I'm not sure how you do that, police officers, just like the politicians we complain about so often, are in part at least, a product of the larger culture and maybe that's the real problem. There was a quote by a Frenchman early in the history of this county and he said something to the effect of "American works because the American people are good" I'm sorry I've never been able to locate that quote and I wish I could. It just makes me wonder if sometimes when we see things "not working" it's because, as a whole and culturally, we're not "good people" anymore. In this case, maybe that hampers us in deciding/evaluating who will make a good police officer.

a reply to: BO XIAN

What’s happening is very simple. For decades, the minority communities have been abused by the police. So now it’s just that this abuse mentality has spread.

The minority communities for years have been trying to tell you what was happening, remember the black panthers and others, but you wouldn’t listen to them.

So you’re getting what have always been happening if you were in the ghettoes of America

Now you know

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: BO XIAN

OP I agree with you completely as crazy as it sounds.

THX for your kind words. LOL.

I think indeed they may be doing just what you suggest - testing mind control methods on certain LEO's in order to see what their toys can really do. 90% of 'supposed' wrong doings by police are not BS!!! Maybe 50% tops I'd say. That is the problem with so many of you quick to defend cops. You say stuff like 'judge from a video clip and play keyboard warrior.' Well the problem with that is - many of these videos indeed show only mostly the beatings however it DOES NOT MATTER what happened before! In SO many of these videos of police beatings I see, it simply does not matter what the person did prior or what they cops thought they did.

Far too true, imho.

Take the video of the woman being punched in the face on the Santa Monica freeway today. NOTHING could have warranted that. She could have spit on that cop's mother and pissed on his shoes for all I care and it would not have warranted that beating.

INDEED.

Ah, the old 'for every one bad cop there is a thousand good cops' fallacy. Not true. Every single cop who observes another cops carrying out brutality and does not stop it or covers it up - those are all bad cops too. And let me tell you - if that is the criteria, I would say a very frightening number are 'bad cops.' It is called being an accomplice to something illegal - you know that thing that is illegal for the commoners to do?

Far too, true, too, imho.

I'm sure, also, that it depends on our criteria, our definition of a "bad cop."

It IS one level of bad to ignore something horrific--and worse, to cover it up . . . and another level of bad to do the horrific deed.

Yeah, the relatively minute numbers DOING the deeds ARE greatly expanded by the folks minimizing it, covering it up; looking the other way.

This thread is . . . a heavy . . . dreary topic for me today and I'm resting up from yesterday. Will try to respond more tomorrow or next week.

THX TONS for the many great responses.

I certainly haven't settled on any definite convictions. I think many great points have been made with a lot of truth in them.

And, no doubt, a combination of things is going on.

a reply to: BO XIAN

The simple answer is that Police Officers are not treated as Citizens. They are above the law and they can pretty much do anything they damn well please.

If your Police Officer and you want to kill someone, you can get away with it 100%.

Want to end Police Brutality? Start treating cops like citizens.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

TorqueyThePig:

I wanted to reply to you directly, and I'm glad you are a different type of police officer. However, we are all shaped by our experiences as well as the experiences of others close to us.

1. You say good candidates are turning away? How do you explain the information that has been coming out suggesting they won't take a candidate that has done too well on the entry exams? To me that says the police departments are purposefully choosing lower quality candidates and the quality ones are being junked automatically.

2. I have known and see some bad cops in my life. Some were military and some were not. I am not going to list everything that I know they did, let's just say it's pretty bad on various levels. Rather I will present news from a 2007 incident that may have flown under the radar for many of you in a nearby town:
2007 news article
2013 update article

Things the Sheriff's deputies did/were charged with:

In all, 22 lawmen, including former Sheriff Glenn Maynor, were charged with crimes, including pirating satellite television signals, kidnapping, perjury, drug trafficking, armed robbery and money laundering. Three former deputies remain in prison.

The 2007 incident didn't involve a lot of ex-military LEOs, it was a county Sheriff's department that got crazy. I have no doubt they didn't find out everything these guys were up to. I say that based on working knowledge of the area.

I have a family friend who use to be an undercover narcotics agent in Fayetteville, just north of the city in the article. He is also former military. After this bust the family friend commented "just wait till they get to Fayetteville." Fayetteville being a military town (Ft. Bragg) has a lot of police officers that are former military. Of course, as far as I know there have't been any investigations.

While I'd like to believe that there are a lot of good cops out there I know there are just as many if not more bad ones. And maybe that's me being jaded, but based on my own experiences and knowledge as well as those of family friends who were former police, it's only a matter of time.

I have a military friend who is also concerned for the rise in police militarization. Based on what he does in the military, I trust his level of concern.

I can only be thankful when I come across good cops. And to you, thank you for being one of the good ones.

originally posted by: signalfire
There's a couple different kinds of people that would want a job like that; some are of the 'serve and protect' genre, some are power tripping on having a badge and a gun and carte blanche, as long as they think no one is looking.

I think this is a VERY PREGNANT and critical issue.

While we are fantasizing about how to clean it up . . . this issue, imho, would require that NO ONE BE HIRED WHO HAS HAD SIGNIFICANT ATTACHMENT DISORDER--particularly from inadequate fathering--unless there had been tons of individual and group therapy SUCCESSFULLY passed through to a point of great healing, balance, maturity . . . and a great absence of a need to !!!CONTROL!!!; a need for vengeance etc.

However, I hasten to add . . . I doubt that most police depts could fill their needs without such stricter criteria for eligible candidates. Therefore what, I don't know.

Anyway, I think it's a moot issue. imho, the problem is going to get worse and worse until Armageddon. I don't think the globalist oligarchy will stop dinking with policemen and police depts. I think they will increasingly manipulate them to devious and destructive ends.

That, and they're getting increasingly militarized by the same BS we get on the news about terrorists everywhere, and even more so every day at the station where they're inculcated with 'intelligence' about all the bad guys that are lurking everywhere. In other words, now everyone is a suspect.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Add in that they spend a lot of their time dealing with the 'dregs' as my police officer cousin so tactfully calls them. He used to be a really good kid who had a rough break early on; his father died when he was only 8 or so. Once he got into the police force, you could see the emotional strain of the business on him, it really coarsened him; being there after suicides 'with people's brains all over the place', breaking up family disturbances involving violent drunks and beatings, he broke his leg bad one time running after a suspect, and the worse was having to shoot at someone pointblank who was trying to run him over with their getaway car. He also was first on site at a bank robbery that involved two murders of tellers. He really isn't the same person now that I knew as a kid.

imho, THIS TOO is a very serious part of the picture.

And some of these guys I swear are on roids.

I'd expect that to be quite true.

It won't stop until the fines start coming out of their own pockets, and they're found criminally negligent with more regularity. At this point, they have immunity from having to pay any settlements, the city or county has to pay off any lawsuits.

That's a sobering issue. I'd hate to have honorable policemen getting killed because they hesitated too long over economic considerations. Their jobs are complex and dangerous enough, as it is.

Doesn't seem to me that there are easy solutions.

a reply to: WCmutant

The only case that I am aware of where a department turned a way a candidate for scoring too high on their entrance exam was this one...

www.minotdailynews.com...

This is the case that cop bashers like to refer to when attempting to strengthen their argument. That being said, I am not aware of any other cases where this occurred. Actually, a lot of police chiefs and sheriff's spoke out against the department's policy.

Their reasoning for not hiring him was due to the assumption that he would become too bored with the rigid and routine daily work the small department experienced and subsequently quit. They did not want to waste the money to train him if he was going to quit.

This case was from 1996. I believe he is now a corrections officer. A couple of things to add about this...

1. Just because someone scores highly on test does not mean they are intelligent.
2. Just because someone has a high IQ does not mean they possess the necessary skills to be a good police officer.
3. If you read the article the average IQ for a police officer is 104. So most are average to slightly above. I am sure there are plenty of exceptions just like every other career.

My comments about ex military becoming police officers are from my experience only. I have seen a more aggressive and arrogant attitude from our ex military members opposed to those that did not serve. It is not a scientific study, just my personal observations.

I agree that things are only going to get worse. I believe things are going to get worse because of the previous reasons I cited. That is part of the reason why I am leaving.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Ooops, I mistyped. Meant to say that I do NOT think departments CAN get enough personnel IF AND WHEN they stiffen the criteria--even minimally sensibly about such issues as we are discussing. That is, stiffening the criteria for hiring will mean even more departments are even more short-handed.

I appreciate the thoughtful posts. This is a serious issue . . . regardless of the percentages . . . it is a serious issue to victims and to departments where such goes on without remedy.

And, it is a serious issue to the perpetrators who think that they are above the law . . . their families probably fare little better.

a reply to: BO XIAN

A imagine Police brutality is far more prevalent these days due to TPTB having to control the masses with greater and greater force because of the general increase of discontent of our populations.

Is it any wonder that we seem to have created a new form of totalitarian foot soldier willing to enforce the will of our oppressive governments who seemingly wish nothing more than to remove our basic freedoms on a daily basis, inch by bloody inch?

As Facebook recently confirmed by there secret experiments. People react negatively when they are shown negative material. Whether it is intentional or a bi-product of something routine, it is clearly creating the complex that when they step out of their shift briefing, they are stepping into danger, not community.

Where I live, less than 15% of our police department actually live in this city. I don't know how it is in other places but I think here, literally bringing police back to the community is a good place to start fixing things.