Close Encounters of a Fatal Kind ?

a reply to: milomilo

Hello milomilo and thanks for posting your thoughts. I did say the evidence was circumstantial and it was up to the reader to make up their mind. I see you have.

Roswell is now the pillar of which much of US Ufology now stands and perhaps is in danger of leaning over and collapsing.

But Roswell is mentioned in less than half the cases presented in the thread and we must also remember that back in 1947, and for 30 years afterwards, it was not one of the major UFO cases. The US and Britain in particular were harbouring serious concerns about "flying saucers" back in the late 1940s and early 1950s. That is reflected in the documents that have now been released.

However now the thread has slowed down here's what I would say about each case.

Firstly the aircraft losses in 1947 are not particularly any higher than some other years when you check out the stats. The Forrestal death is very suspicious even if you take Roswell out of the equation. I think the Kennedy associations and Marilyn Monroe are simply a desire by some to link the deaths of three sixties icon to yet another conspiracy.

Capt. Shaffner's death in the North Sea seems suspicious given that the UK MoD witheld vital information for 30 years. HIs family have accepted the, now released, official report that he lost control of his aircraft and crashed whilst chasing a RAF Shackleton not a UFO.

Ed Ruppelt's death can be probably be attributed to an undiagnosed condition. As for Phil Schneider I really cannot fathom out what the hell to make of that man's story whatsoever. It would make one hell of a movie though! Bill Cooper had a shadowy history and it seems his death was for not co-operating with law enforcement. Make of that what you will.

James McDonald's suicide is just plain bizarre. As for Dorothy Kilgallen well I don't know enough to form a definite opinion on her death. The SDI scientists deaths are very, very strange. But it's a big leap to link any of them to the UFO phenomenon.

So I am still searching for that concrete indisputable story that may prove to us "we are not alone". I did find these stories interesting reading and hope a few others did also?

hey mirageman

i have read those cases you mentioned and i love hearing conspiracy theories and strange coincidences ( Pat Price died from a strange seizure naturally ? yeah right lol ). One fact remains that MANY MANY UFO researchers / UFO related persons died of cancer and suicide .. coincidence ? natural causes ? i dont know, statistically it is something that should be investigated more thoroughly.

the over-reliance on roswell as the pillar of US UFOLOGY is also the indication of how badly the state of US UFOLOGY nowadays. Roswell , while it is a documented incident , now mutated into an unrecognizable story of mythical proportion (also the same with the 'philadelphia experiment' myth).. I think i agree with J.Vallee that US Ufology's focus on nuts-n-bolts ufo over other hypothesis also limit it's growth and thus it is now travelling on a narrow road with no brakes.

as a fellow traveler learning about the UFO Phenomena, i am appalled by today's focus on shock stories and sensational BS being spread by these fellows from US Lunatic Fringe. Alien Corpse one day, Underground bases next day, Alien Baby tomorrow ... gosh this is just like back then in the days of Adamski times 1000...

---------------

It would be great if there is a database correlating information from UFO Cases, Cattle Mutilation Cases, Missing Persons Cases, Cryptozoology Cases , Paranormal Cases searchable ... maybe one can deduce some pattern from all these cases and form a hypothesis on the UFO phenomena.

in the mean time, i have to agree with Dr Swords that the 'entity' behind these UFO Phenomena are currently in mission to 'toy' with humans (Troll the humanity lol) , and while they seem to appear overtly to the witnesses, they always hide their existence and thus act covertly for whatever agenda they currently have.

A super intelligent Alien / Ancient Race toying / trolling the humanity just for laugh because they are bored ... lol

I have always considered that the SDI project was more to do with defending Earth against hostile aliens than the shooting down of soviet missiles. Having said that I remember watching Regan's speech from the Oval Office about SDI and it gave me the creeps. I really did think that the Soviets would retaliate over it. Kids today don't know how lucky they are not to grow up in fear of nuclear war.

Is there a record of INTERCEPTOR losses in the 50s or 60s?

a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss

If I wanted to wildly speculate then perhaps SDI works and that could also explain why we don't get many aliens visiting us any more. However I suspect the reason there has been a drop off in the more exotic alien/landed UFO stories is partly because nowadays most people have the technology in their pocket to take a close up picture of such an event and mainly because the Cold War is over.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

There is the link I posted in the OP.

accident-report.com...

However that is taking things from the wrong angle. It's a bit like looking at the death rate in a particular area and correlating it with murders.

For example the F104 Starfighter was well known for being fairly unreliable in flight and the Germans often called it the Witwenmacher ("The Widowmaker").

en.wikipedia.org...

We'd need a definitive list of aircraft that were in the vicinity of a reported UFO to make any meaningful study of data.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
What exactly is David Childress talking about in this clip?

Dead Scientist do tell Tales !

Not only UFO Conspirators & Engineers ,, but..... Those of Finding or Close to Finding a Cure of a Illness, like Cancer in the Bio Field... or Inventing or Discovering Energy Sources other Than Fossil Fuels like Coal, Oil , or an Alternative Use besides Nuclear...

Here is a Site that pretty Much talks about the same as the OP...

Who Killed James Forrestal? Was There A Cover-up?

by DCDave
www.stevequayle.com...


Dead Scientists Articles - Index
www.stevequayle.com...

Dead Scientists DO Tell Tales
www.stevequayle.com...

Some Notable Ones ...

Dr. Eugene F. Mallove,
a Norwich Free Academy graduate, 56, died May 14, 2004 after being beaten to death during an alleged robbery. Mallove appeared on Coast To Coast AM as recently as Feb. 2004 speaking about alternative energy. Mallove was well respected for his knowledge of cold fusion.

Dr. Steven Mostow, 63,
was one of the country's leading infectious disease and bioterrorism experts and was associate dean at the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center. He died in a plane crash near Centennial Airport.

Virus expert, Dr Robert E. Shope,
and principal author of a highly publicized 1992 report by the National Academy of Sciences warning of the possible emergence of new and unsettling infectious illnesses died at age 74 of lung transplant complicatons. Dr. Shope also built the World Reference Center for Emerging Viruses and Arboviruses, a collection of some 5,000 samples.

Nice Site Note: May Need to Filter out the BS with a BS Meter and use your Best judgement
as the Site lays Truth to Mehhh to Theorized Tall Tales.. Hey a Conspiracy Site that like Answers like this Site
The Site is mostly Focuses on Dead Scientist's , and Man - Giants mostly good for Conpirater lovers and Legend lovers

Steve Quayle.com
www.stevequayle.com...

originally posted by: Wirral Bagpuss
I have always considered that the SDI project was more to do with defending Earth against hostile aliens than the shooting down of soviet missiles. Having said that I remember watching Regan's speech from the Oval Office about SDI and it gave me the creeps. I really did think that the Soviets would retaliate over it. Kids today don't know how lucky they are not to grow up in fear of nuclear war.

yup I thought so too ... and another ... that thought our next Major War would be inter galactic war ... General Douglas Mc Arthur in the mid 50s at a Military Academy



Gen. Douglas MacArthur comments on Interplanetary War in 1951. He restated this position in Manilla in 1961. 01:44


Reagan's Famed What IF Speech



Fake Alien Invasion + Reagan Alien Treat Speech = The Architects of Fear
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yeah Yeah I Know It Said Treat instead of Threat LOL
Didnt Realized to it was to late LOL...

Fun and All its Not Necessarily of what they Mean... Misinterpretation perhaps..?

FATAL ENCOUNTER

One of the british pilots (on a gloster meteor) who encountered 3 unindentified disc on a clear sky said that they shouldnt get too close to the discs because they heard a US combat aircraft disintegrated in midair because they got too close to a UFO.

i still think this is not the same case as the michigan deadly encounter..

originally posted by: Revelations29
This thread is put nicely together but Aliens don't visit Earth. Just like Big Foot, Santa Claus, and the Easter Bunny, they are myths to discern your self from reality from real issues. (Central Banking for example)

The only evidence of UFO's ever existing is witness accounts and CGI youtube videos. That's it. Thats why critical thinking is not strong within the UFO crowd. For one thing UFO'logy is a religion. You have to have faith and you have to "believe" that Aliens visit Earth.

To each his own of course, but hasn't this UFO and BigFoot fad gone on long enough? The whole UFO thing is a joke, you're laughed at on public TV with that great show "Ancient Aliens" on the History Channel of all Channels.

It's like that Big Foot thread that Springer posted, it's all just a big inside joke. (UFO'olgy included)

Um no....My son and I have SEEN a ufo, not a light far up in the sky that "could" be a million other things, but NO it was 60 feet above us. No room for doubt, even though I would love to.... Shook my world and turned it upside down for a few years, but I have finally managed to find my faith again, inspite of UFO's being real, I feel they fit in with my beliefs still.

Oh, and there are a few million just like us I am sure, we never talk about it much, but there is no denying what we saw.

originally posted by: hidingthistime


Um no....My son and I have SEEN a ufo, not a light far up in the sky that "could" be a million other things, but NO it was 60 feet above us. No room for doubt, even though I would love to.... Shook my world and turned it upside down for a few years, but I have finally managed to find my faith again, inspite of UFO's being real, I feel they fit in with my beliefs still.

Oh, and there are a few million just like us I am sure, we never talk about it much, but there is no denying what we saw.

it could be a baloon or a blimp though..

and how UFO fit in your belief ?

a reply to: mirageman

Maybe the aliens have simply gotten better over time too? With more data there's less need to take overt actions (this could also be scaling to our communications ability) and at this point they've basically got all of their candidates for repeat abductions in place? I promise you they're still here.

a reply to: milomilo

Do you know how close 60 feet is?? It is as close as a car across a 2 lane street, except 10 times bigger. No mistaking what we saw... Nothing like a blimp or anything from earth.

it fits into my beliefs because there are all kinds of mystery vehicles or "things" mentioned in ancient texts and the bible, so it does not hamper my faith.

I am one of those spiritual but not religious types.....

originally posted by: hidingthistime
a reply to: milomilo

Do you know how close 60 feet is?? It is as close as a car across a 2 lane street, except 10 times bigger. No mistaking what we saw... Nothing like a blimp or anything from earth.

it fits into my beliefs because there are all kinds of mystery vehicles or "things" mentioned in ancient texts and the bible, so it does not hamper my faith.

I am one of those spiritual but not religious types.....

no such thing as 'vehicles' or 'things' mentioned in bible..

originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: hidingthistime
a reply to: milomilo

Do you know how close 60 feet is?? It is as close as a car across a 2 lane street, except 10 times bigger. No mistaking what we saw... Nothing like a blimp or anything from earth.

it fits into my beliefs because there are all kinds of mystery vehicles or "things" mentioned in ancient texts and the bible, so it does not hamper my faith.

I am one of those spiritual but not religious types.....

no such thing as 'vehicles' or 'things' mentioned in bible..

Actually there is. Look up Ezekiel's wheel for starters. The Old Testament is full of UFO references!

I knew there was one case where although the case itself did not result in a fatality, three days later there was either a huge coincidence or something quite possibly caused a fatal accident. Just caught an episode of "Close Encounters" and this one was featured.

Burke Flats and the strange case of bent headlight beams

Meanwhile, as he was driving, he observed that his car headlight beams suddenly appeared to be pointing in a direction off to the right in the direction of the strange light display and also seemed to be, bending back on an axis with the object in the pasture. As he got closer, the angle of bending of his cars headlight beams became more acute.

He thought his car must have been heading off the road to the right, and immediately compensated by turning it to the left. He found he was now heading directly towards a tree on the left hand side of the road. He turned the car to the right to regain the direction of travel along the straight section of road, thoroughly confused and leaving behind the display in the pasture.

Three days later, a motorist was found dead in the wreckage of their vehicle having run into exactly the same gum tree Sullivan almost drove into.

Amazing post, lots of good info here, one of the best posts I have seen in a long time. Years of "suicides" and "accidental" deaths...looks like the gov's dirty laundry is catching up to it..GREAT POST a reply to: mirageman

originally posted by: mirageman
Dr. James McDonald

James McDonald was a senior physicist and keen UFO investigator who during the 1960s lobbied US Congress to investigate the UFO subject seriously. Rumoured to be having marital troubles in 1971 and severely depressed he shot himself in the head.

The suicide attempt failed, but McDonald was blinded and he was bound to a wheelchair. Somehow several months after his first attempt with his eyesight recovering slightly, he allegedly managed to get into the drivers sear of a car and drive to a pawnshop, where he purchased a pistol sat in his wheelchair. McDonald then drove to the desert and finally succeeded at the second attempt in ending his life. McDonald, could be an abrasive character and had made enemies in high places because of his forthright views on how the establishment had ignored or discredited the UFO phenomena. Was his death even more bizarre than that reported?

Top thread Mirageman

Don't think we'll ever know if Dr James Mcdonald was knocked off but I think it has to be said he was a truly courageous chap (and extremely good atmospherical physicist) - there's a relevant vid below dealing with his final years and the subject of 'scoffing and ridicule' within mainstream science so I thought I'd post it.

link

The scientist also apparently experienced quite a bit of surveillance and harassment during the last years of his life and it also states at the link below his daughter was raped and nearly murdered

From 1968 through 1970, inexplicable occurrences vexed McDonald. On airline trips his luggage was frequently "lost" and returned later, rifled through. A briefcase containing sensitive reports by military UFO witnesses was stolen off an airliner under mysterious, unexplained circumstances. McDonald was followed around Tucson by curious unmarked cars, and other signs of silent surveillance puzzled him. His persistence and perseverance brought him through these trials, but he began to privately suspect, with good reason, that government agents might be monitoring him. He confided his concerns only to a few close friends.

In September 1969, one of McDonald's daughters was raped and nearly murdered on the Harvard campus. The details of the attack were unexplained, and McDonald's repeated attempts to clarify them led to intense frustration..

link

Biographer Anne Druffel also writes that, in the months leading up to his death, Dr Mcdonald informed two close colleagues that he was 'very close to learning the answer to UFOs and was holding discussions at the highest level of government':

A few weeks before these hearings, McDonald had told two close colleagues in the UFO field that he was very close to learning the answer to UFOs, and was holding discussions at "the highest level" of government. He explained that he was not free to discuss the details, but would soon be able to reveal what he knew.

McDonald's handwritten UFO journals contain notations up to March 17, 1971. Project Blue Book had been disbanded, and the best of its radar-visual UFO files had been declassified. McDonald had promptly traveled to Maxwell AFB in Alabama to study and copy them. He was amazed at the of information they contained: empirical evidence, the precious seeds of proof, which seemed to have been ignored by the government for 24 years.

There's also this link about his Australian UFO research which goes into more detail about how the scientist may have found out what was actually behind the phenomena just before he died.

Mystery surrounds some aspects of McDonald's research. "About a month before he was due to testify in March, top-level government officials reportedly got in touch with McDonald." (p.491.)

In February 1971, McDonald was in conversation with Dr Robert M Wood (a physicist who worked for McDonnell-Douglas.) Although Druffel reports that Wood doesn't recall the exact words used by McDonald, he recalls McDonald saying something along the lines "I think I've got the answer;" "I found out what's behind it;" "I just can't tell you right now;" "You won't believe it! I've got to pin it down a little bit more, and then I'll come out." (p.492.)

In 1973, Wood said "I think he found the trail to the classified work...and some documentation that made it pretty clear that there was a cover up going on, that this was the most classified program in the country." (p.492.)

Unfortunately, the UFO research community was not to find out just what McDonald had meant, as he died, by his own hand, on 13 Jun 1971.

link

Cheers!

a reply to: FireMoon

I caught that episode too, a few days ago. Very strange.

a reply to: karl 12

Fascinating stuff Karl. James McDonald's story would probably make a great movie.