even after the cypher is exposed, does god exist?

I've posted the last book cypher as many have witnessed on this site. Even though the implications that go with the explanation of the code's means that god doesn't exist. There is no way of knowing god does indeed exist due to the fact that a computer may have made the bible or by some aliens.

I want to say one thing - that I refuse to follow a god that has placed me here with evil beings which I have no idea about. I refuse to be his slave and anyone elses slave.

With this - I cannot say if god exists or doesn't exist because that is neither for the ones that put the bible here or for me to decode and rationalize as god does not exist, as the codes state.

Just be careful with this god that could have created us all. No one will ever know until it all hits the fan.

I don't want to be responsible for swaying peoples thoughts about this god - I just want people to know the truth. If the cypher really is truthful, it doesn't mean god doesn't exist.

I've done all I can about this. Everyone be well.

originally posted by: RevelationsDivad
I refuse to follow a god that has placed me here with evil beings which I have no idea about. I refuse to be his slave and anyone elses slave.

Everyone worships SOMETHING...

Dylan was right you know, you "Gotta Serve Somebody".

Don't make the mistake of thinking you must believe in a deity in order to worship one.

The bottom line: are you willing to lose EVERYTHING and risk your entire destiny on a lie?

a reply to: RevelationsDivad

But wouldnt that just make God the computer? A computer capable of simulating this whole universe and experience we call life would have to be described as a sentient being. It also brings up another interesting question. Who designed the computer and operating system? Regardless of how scientific we try to get in explaining reality it always brings us back to that question. Even the big bang required something to exist. There was never nothing. There was always something, and i think no matter how you cut it that something is God. The creator of all things. I think where things get sketchy is when people try to quantify God or put God into easily understood terms or try to abscribe human emotions and sentiment to an otherwise unknowable force. A computer program, a simulation, whatever you want to call it.....there are rules to this reality. Something enforces the rules, something created the rules.

a reply to: RevelationsDivad

God exists to those who desire to manifest the morality in which He represents.

That which exists is created.

That which is created is born and therefore is subject to death.

That which is subject to death cannot be Absolute.

Therefore God does not exist.

That which is non-existential is Absolute.

God is Absolute.

a reply to: Zadok


I understand your logic but death only applies to things that are alive. You can't kill a rock. You can crush it. You can melt it. You can rearrange its internal structure. You can combine it with other things. What you can't do is take that rock completely out of existance. It will always be around in one form or another. Therefore if the universe originated from an infinitely small point in space and exploded outwards....that infinitely small point that contained all of existance would have been God. Which would make everything that exists part of God. From the biggest stars in the Universe to the tiniest particles. If you were just one cell in a living organism would it be possible to realize the full splendor of the body that you inhabit? Using your logic, if cells could think....humans wouldnt exist to them. I believe a god exists because he has to. Attributing the fact that we are alive here having this discussion to just a coincidence sounds a little more ludicrous than believing something exists with a power beyond our imagination, which would make it godly. Im not making arguments for christianity or any other religion speaking the absolute truth.

a reply to: rustyclutch

The minutest particle remains created because it exists, it has form.

But what created that form?

God cannot be a product of creation if He is the Creator.

It's like saying technology created humans, it is not so.

That which creates is not subject to the laws of that which is created.

The Creator cannot be subject to it's Creations.

Therefore that which Created resides beyond the Created.

A rock can be killed, if it is crushed it becomes dust.

Therefore the form which was called a rock died and by means of it's death dust was born.

The mistake resides in incorrectly believing only that which exists can exist in the way we comprehend existence.

This mistake has given rise to the belief that God cannot exist because existence is subject to degradation.

Therefore the argument arises, "How can God be omnipotent if he exists?"

God cannot be omnipotent if He exists because that would subject him to degradation.

God is the Absolute unchanging nature that resides beyond existence.

It is a mistake to believe He can be comprehended.

It is a mistake to place His existence within the constraints of ours.

By placing God within His creation you are subjecting God to death and therefore demeaning His Omnipotence.

a reply to: RevelationsDivad

What cypher? The hot/evil and cold/good stuff? I never saw any sources or info, just a few threads.

a reply to: Zadok
A rock is only a rock because that is what you observe it to be. At the smallest level its made of atoms and space. You are simply saying that something finite shouldnt be able to exist within something infinite. An atom can be infinitely small if you are the size of a planet but it can be the size of a solar system if you are a subatomic particle. Its all about perspective. From our perspective it is impossible to view totality of existance...which makes it infinite. If the protons in the atoms in our body were planets and had people on them like us, our bodies could be universes. The people on those protons would be none the wiser and neither would we. We could both exist simultaneously inside a fractal. Now blow that up to the cosmic scale. We could just be people on a proton in an atom that makes up the body of God.

a reply to: rustyclutch

Incorrect, it was not communicated that something finite cannot exist within something infinite.

It was communicated that we cannot comprehend the infinite in it's totality.

Something finite can exist within something infinite.

This can be verified by our very existence.

We exist finitely within the infinite.

This can be verified by observing thoughts within the mind.

The mind is endless, it is infinite in space as it has no conceivable bounds.

Thoughts are finite, they are born and they pass away.

The belief that something is impossible is just a belief.

Such is the belief that God can be comprehended by the limited perspective.

Perspective is the cognizant absorption of information by means of the 6 senses.

Sight, touch, taste, smell, sound and the mind that conceives them.

The 6 senses are limitations of the conscious organism.

To look inwardly, to search beyond the limitations of external perspective would be means of comprehending the totality of existence.

The totality of existence is emptiness.

Emptiness is merely the cognizant comprehension of that which is unknowable.

To attempt further understanding is an act of foolishness.

a reply to: Zadok

In response to your first post in which you present an argument against the existence of God, I take issue with statements one and two. Of course that means I am unconvinced by the conclusions you draw from them.

God exists to those who desire to manifest the morality in which He represents.

God exists to everyone. He would still exist if there were no humans. Besides, here you say God exists to some, but your final conclusion is that God doesn't exist. It appears that your argument is self-contradictory.

That which exists is created.[/quoted] I object to that on traditional theological grounds, but also on logical ones.

Something exists therefore,

Something created it.

By inference, something created the something which created the something which exists. The argument has two places to go, as far as I can see. Either nothing exists, or there was an uncreated creator.

But is the cypher true and is it being interpreted properly.

I believe there is something structuring everything, possibly a creation of life itself. An intelligence and link that can be accessed. I refer to this being as god. Do you need a religion to believe in god? Not really, but it does help to keep one from forgetting to thank this being for being able to live. Could this be a computer program? Well if so god is the program. Do we have to worship god? Not really, we are all a creation of god, we are part of god. We should know we are all connected to everything through this. Is god crabby and causes people to kill others? Sometimes, we have to control our populations or we will destroy everything. The balance is off, we get cranky when there are too many people.

Do I believe in god. Yes. I would rather believe in a being that structures everything than greed, pride, and desire for power that I see in others. Seems that there are a lot of people that like weaseling money off others, many of them probably go to church every sunday and pray for forgiveness too. They need it.

God isn't dumb, if he/she is the collective consciousness of everything, he can see through us like looking through a window pane. So what is this reality anyway, I have seen some things that do not seem possible. I suppose religion was formed to try to explain these things.

a reply to: Zadok

Which still doesnt point to the absence of god only to us existing within god(the infinite) and god being unknowable to us. As you said we exist finitely within the infinite. Attempting to understand is never foolishness. Willfully remaining ignorant is.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Zadok

God exists to everyone. He would still exist if there were no humans. Besides, here you say God exists to some, but your final conclusion is that God doesn't exist. It appears that your argument is self-contradictory.

The misunderstanding comes from ones personal understanding of the word "exist."

To exist is to be created, to be born, therefore when you say God exists you say God was created and is therefore subject to impermanence.

The contradiction resides in the beholder, when it is said God doesn't exist it is communicated that God is not subject to the laws of existence, not that God isn't real.

I object to that on traditional theological grounds, but also on logical ones.

Something exists therefore,

Something created it.

By inference, something created the something which created the something which exists. The argument has two places to go, as far as I can see. Either nothing exists, or there was an uncreated creator.

Exactly what was communicated, the mistake resides in misunderstanding the communication.

That which exists is created.

That which is created is born and therefore is subject to death.

That which is subject to death cannot be Absolute.

Therefore God does not exist.

That which is non-existential is Absolute.

God is Absolute.

Here it can be understood that it is not said God isn't real, it is said God does not exist as existence is understood.

That which is Absolute, that which is the Totality of All cannot be confined to it's creation, it is beyond it, but not separate from it.

Does that make more sense?

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: RevelationsDivad

But wouldnt that just make God the computer? A computer capable of simulating this whole universe and experience we call life would have to be described as a sentient being. It also brings up another interesting question. Who designed the computer and operating system? Regardless of how scientific we try to get in explaining reality it always brings us back to that question. Even the big bang required something to exist. There was never nothing. There was always something, and i think no matter how you cut it that something is God. The creator of all things. I think where things get sketchy is when people try to quantify God or put God into easily understood terms or try to abscribe human emotions and sentiment to an otherwise unknowable force. A computer program, a simulation, whatever you want to call it.....there are rules to this reality. Something enforces the rules, something created the rules.

Well here is my argument: God could have possibly created us - inside the video game and even created people out side the video game. Rusty you are correct in thinking god is the computer - but god's existence is determined not by which
he has falsely or factually told his prophets to write during the duration of biblical times but by the single possibility that he may exist. He may exist regardless if he shows himself to us or not, that is not for any being below this so called god to decide. I know that the bible has lies in it and I see pretty much ALL of them and people have been manipulating it for a while now. Also - because people have been manipulating the bible for centuries does not count out god being in existence either as I may add. I'm just pointing out that god maybe not exist might be a possibility after all I have figured out for myself and shared with other people on this website (look at my links in my signature).

It doesn't matter that god is evil (which he is). What matters is that the bible - this something - has been presented to us and within it we have been presented god. We can never properly dispute the existence of god until he returns. This is something that we must get over.

If you believe god is evil - don't worship him and don't believe in him. Likely - this is what I'm going to do. I'm trying to lead people to a broader way of thinking, I am not trying to lead people to put down the name of god but only to disassociate from him, her or it. I demand a fruitful life, not one where my god is also supporting the other side and giving me orders to attack this other side. Because of this - I disassociate myself from this god. If god exists - hopefully he accepts this and does not send me to hades for my own sake. We will never know until god does something or this - by getting rid of the evil in this world then clearing our minds of this god which has become a monkey on our backs. The mind seeks answers and the mystery of god is an answer that the mind cannot decipher so like wise the mind cannot over come this obstacle which is the question of the existence of god - the brain malfunctions and seeks the answer to the question relentlessly without resolve due to god not being present. This is the monkey on the back effect.

So I do this for myself: forget god and disassociate with him until these evils leave our planet or forget god and disassociate until he comes back then demand from him rest in any way I or you see fit. This god is not worthy of our worship in my opinion, he should atleast grant I or you rest in death or rest in something else after all this chaos on this planet is over, go to heaven - whatever - as long as its rest.

If this god does exist, I have no light heartedness for him. I have no sympathy for his evil side and I will not associate myself with him because of this.

Just my 2 cents.

delete this extra post please.

a reply to: RevelationsDivad

Just wondering...

When did God give you orders to attack anything?

God is not evil, but I can understand why one might think that if you take into account the stories in the so called "good book"... but consider the idea that most of them are not from God, they're from men who claim to know God and his will... and in most cases they prove themselves quite wrong

a reply to: rustyclutch

It was not said that attempting to understand God is foolishness, it was said that attempting to understand God beyond what is comprehensible is an act of foolishness.

There are as many gods as there are people. Some tend to follow the main idea while others create their own. Now lst's not forget god of water,earth,air,fire followed my many other types.

Could it be nothing more then the unexpected, unknowing and odd crap that runs in the background. Could be we are seedlings dropped off long age. In time, your change. 2 yrs less/more if one relies on one and happens Not to answere.

Most of my time is understanding my living partner! Most of the time She Thinks she is god!

Peace

a reply to: Zadok

They arn't facts, they are presumptions. There is saying in Zen to learn something new, we must forget everything. Which is the same as saying all our existing presumptions don't promote discovery, they hinder it.

There is no simulation.

To think such would decree human consiousness as the fundamental building blocks of existance. Or the focus of creation.
It's simply not true.

Why must everyone attempt to fathom a finite universe or a universe with a begining. Neither are possible.
Computers only exist as a physical device able to store programed charges ( electricity carring data) It must be governed by a pre-existing process othewise we can start throwing around words like the earth popped up 10,000 years acompanied by 4 seasons of earth spinning action. The Simulations we can do on computers only exist because we designed them from the outside. We can view coding from the outside and not the inside.

It's to inconcievable, even if it is a simulation. I could work around in my head how it could be one but the practicality of it is not very high. What governs time? If we just state. * It's a simulation* It does not mean that you are real.
If you consider yourself to be outside the machine. Then that would be determining that everything within the universe is inferior to the non *physical* being that is humans who sit outside of the *machine* as existing.

Which is extremely ignorant to claim something so bold when we havn't knowingly colonizes other planets yet.
This is the Christians and other nations going to heaven question.
If someone worships a god similar to satan does that mean they will go to hell? If they believe that is the true god?
Same question being for aliens in space. If this is all just a simulation and humans are real. Does that toss aside the possibility that aliens in the universe exist as living entities outside of it as well?

IF we all just blips of information. What god would care about any of you at all in the grand scheme of how awesome huge the universe already is without imagining mobojumbo.
There is to many worlds to worry about humans, And if such mega huge scientists outside the computer simulation even took notice.

Do you think they would even understand speech? I mean to them, our galaxy could be a blinking light from creation to destruction where everything is happening to fast for them to even see whats going on.

How could a god possibly intervene with our cultural politics?
Why even entertain such ideas, Like i said there is no privilage or god given right in this universe that dictacts that humans existed before the universe existed itself.

Therefore you cannot be outside a simulation. I highly doubt that the guppies wondering about breathing in air by the gallon are hardly the scientist type or even intelligent enough to be relaxing in a simulation.
What happens when we develope realistic vitural simulations then? Would be within a simulation of a simulation?
What's to stop the simulation from creating another universe within the universe of that virtual simulation? Wouldn't the simulated people in the vitural simulation also have vitural simulations for their avatars as well to view their own simulations?

SO god is a gamer?
Running a simulation. Within a simulation. Thats running in an even bigger simulation in some giants living room with a super TV and he himself is a simulation in some little girls bedroom and that little girls bedroom is a sim of some dude who drives with a monitor in his super truck and hes just a simulation of a computer that is simulating simulations that simulate about billions of computers that simulation even more and more and more and...

Who started the whole thing? If we talk about Simulation theory the universe could be infinite until someone in the bigger universe knocks us off a table or something or even if their universes or the infinite ammount of universes one of them screws up and the chain of simulated universes is cut off.
With a high probability of infinity, its very likely that such a simulation theory would eventually even disconnect the simulation that is holding the computer that holds us. So even their universe that simulates us would be destroyed and there would be no way of retreiving us.


Continue to believe in simulation theory, Its not complicated. Just impossible. It can be explained.
But the obvious holes in the theory chew right through it.
Because eitherway, with a simulated universe. Nothing that happens now even matters period.

Which we find is not the case as consiquences are a huge facet of life, And are unignorable.
The universe DOES not create contradictions. Only the human mind can concieve as we Label things with sounds called words and pictures. All of which are ideals, Of remembering words and sounds with pictures and places or ideas.

These do not become tangible in the physical unless we use our hands to build amplifiers towards our goals with machinery.

No one is flying around like neo.

Do you see superman anywhere? Where's the glitch for the dinosaurs roaming the streets? Or comets lagging.
What if open the fridge crashed, and you just couldn't open the fridge? Why entertain such ideas when the universe does not produce any of these effects...