Does the beast in revelation 13,1 actually have 8 heads and not 7?

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Fingon
The united states is mystery babylon... Lady liberty is the whore of babylon. The statue of liberty has a crown with seven spikes. The seven spikes represent the seven continents and the seven oceans on which she sits on.. It suppose to represent the enlightment of the world. This is the beast that sits on seven mountains.

Actually. There are five, alternately six continents (if you count Antarctica), not seven, and the only beast that has seven horns in the Bible is the Lamb of God:

Revelation 5:6 -- And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. [ESV]

Sooo. What was it you said again? The Statue of Liberty is a modern rendition of Libertas a Roman goddess of freedom and liberty. Below you can see a story in pictures from the construction of the statue. Notice how it looks as if it has been slain:

==> twistedsifter.com...

I'm not saying the 'Statue of Liberty' is the Lamb of God, though, it is a representation of Libertas, and with features taken from both Marianne, representing France (who gave the statue as a gift to USA) and Columbia, representing the 'New World'.

I am counting Antarctica. So that would be seven with north america, south america, europe, africa, asia, and australia.

Europe is not a continent. Eurasia is (Europe and Russia mostly). If you need another continent for your equation, there's always the Pacific continent, but it's kind of wet.

Im guessing where you are from defines euroasia as single continent. I believe most of western europe , the americas , china , and india define the world as having seven but i guess that is debatable anywhere.

yeah its an old thought, idea, but here u go:

a reply to: Fingon

Well I come from Earth and down here we have studied the planet for millennia, constantly refining our material to the point where we have managed to understand quite a bit about what this sphere hides underneath it's shell. The field of study is 'plate tectonics'. According to Wikipedia there are seven or eight major plates, and plenty smaller ones:

en.wikipedia.org...

Depending on how they are defined, there are usually seven or eight "major" plates: African, Antarctic, Eurasian, North American, South American, Pacific, and Indo-Australian. The latter is sometimes subdivided into the Indian and Australian plates.

There are dozens of smaller plates, the seven largest of which are the Arabian, Caribbean, Juan de Fuca, Cocos, Nazca, Philippine Sea and Scotia.

My counting is a bit different, since I don't count the Pacific plate as being a continent, since it is underwater is inhospitable for any current civilisation. Neither do I see much evidence that the Indo-Australian continent is split in half. Finally, like with the Pacific plate, Antarctica is buried under a thick layer of ice and is quite uninhabitable. Thus we have North American, South American, Eurasian, African, and Indo-Australian continents. That gives us five continents

However, according to Lewis, Martin W.; Kären E. Wigen (1997) in 'The Myth of Continents: a Critique of Metageography':

"continents are understood to be large, continuous, discrete masses of land, ideally separated by expanses of water."

This is all about how to count, what to count and what is considered large and what should be considered continuous landmass, tectonic plates and where the border goes for separation from the others by water. Like what is it that makes Greenland an island and Australia a continent? In fact there are dozens of continental plates, and much of the landmass they cover is seabed or is inhabitable for anyone but Amundsen, Scott and scattered populations of penguins.

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Fingon

Leviathan? Tiamat? Rahab? Yamm? It has even more names and you find it all over the ancient world. Politically it's heads represent the ancient world powers or empires who were/are the enemies of Israel from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Hitler's brief Reich to the Beast itself which is the Eighth, it's horns are extensions of power. Could be ISIL coupled with a European chapter I suppose. ISIL certainly fits the framework of something vicious and violent, like a wild beast, but a world empire? Armed to their teeth with all kinds of horns and fangs. Then again, it could be me or you, or USA or Islam or something completely different. There is no lack of contenders. "Some wait for Jesus, others wait for Cain."

Well yea there are many contenders but my personal belief is that america is the seventh beast since to me it best fits the description in the revelations and isiah of concerning mystery babylon. I would think most people find it hard to believe but i think that is part of satan plan which is to decieve the nations and lead as much of people astray.

The description to John with my interpretation:
Five have fallen: Empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece.
-- All are described as enemies of Israel in the Bible, and were world empires which at the time of John the Scribe, were fallen empires.
One is now: The Roman Empire.
One is yet to come and will be brief: Hitler's Third Reich
The beast itself, the Eighth King/Empire: The Catholic Empire? ISIL? Egypt? Syria? Iran? Iraq? or EU? USA? The British Empire?
-- History will show, and as the Beast is a central founding element in all Christian nations, you'll find it's hoof prints and signatures all over the Christian world. It's multi-layered and highly faceted. Like I say, history will show, and as history is written by the winners, it could be virtually any nation or army, king, kalif or president. All the nations fit the gloves.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

One is yet to come and will be brief: Hitler's Third Reich

The mainstream opinion among the Revelation scholars is that this was referring to a belief that was current when it was written, that Nero didn't really die, but went to Parthia, where he was collecting forces to attack the Roman Empire, to take it back.
This is how they explain the topic of the thread title.

a reply to: jmdewey60

What you refer to is what scholars call Preterism. I didn't know you were a preterist?

Though it is plausible that the Apocalypse was written merely as propaganda for Jewish resistance during the 'Great Jewish Revolt' that ended in 70AD and marked the start of the Diaspora, there are many factors showing this can't possibly be the case. The resulting diaspora is one major flaw in their equation. And stuff like how no nation of empire until our days has been able to raise an army of 200 million soldiers. There are plenty of other major inconsistencies.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What you refer to is what scholars call Preterism. I didn't know you were a preterist?

Scholars, as far as I know, don't use the term, Preterism.
Cult hacks use that as a pejorative term, as they spew their Futurist nonsense that doesn't even deserve comment by real scholars.
I hope that clears up any fuzziness concerning where I stand on the issue.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Hehe, I guess Jesu' return and the resurrection has already happened then? There were no wars after 70AD, and Paul made sure the devil was firmly placed in chains, I suppose? Forgive me for being rude here, but whether you call it preterism or whatever other form of narrow eschatology describing all prophecies as fulfilled, you are bound to lose. There is no way the prophecies of OT and Revelation are all fulfilled.

Somehow you only find this "all-is-fulfilled" stance with Saul the Roman, in his rigorous attempt at disarming the threat against Rome that these prophecies indeed were.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

There is no way the prophecies of OT and Revelation are all fulfilled.

Revelation, yes.
OT, it doesn't matter because those are not literal.

I was kind of in a hurry when I made my last post so maybe I should clarify a bit.
I think that what John wrote in Revelation was symbolic of what would happen in his lifetime.
A lot of things happened, like the demise of the Jerusalem temple, the foundation of the religion of the Jews.
The other thing that happened was the rise of Christianity to take its place.
These were age changing events, where now we live in a new Heaven and a new Earth, because of that change that had a marked fixed point where the apocalyptic judgment day took place, in 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the temple.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Fingon

Leviathan? Tiamat? Rahab? Yamm? It has even more names and you find it all over the ancient world. Politically it's heads represent the ancient world powers or empires who were/are the enemies of Israel from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Hitler's brief Reich to the Beast itself which is the Eighth, it's horns are extensions of power. Could be ISIL coupled with a European chapter I suppose. ISIL certainly fits the framework of something vicious and violent, like a wild beast, but a world empire? Armed to their teeth with all kinds of horns and fangs. Then again, it could be me or you, or USA or Islam or something completely different. There is no lack of contenders. "Some wait for Jesus, others wait for Cain."

Well yea there are many contenders but my personal belief is that america is the seventh beast since to me it best fits the description in the revelations and isiah of concerning mystery babylon. I would think most people find it hard to believe but i think that is part of satan plan which is to decieve the nations and lead as much of people astray.

The description to John with my interpretation:
Five have fallen: Empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece.
-- All are described as enemies of Israel in the Bible, and were world empires which at the time of John the Scribe, were fallen empires.
One is now: The Roman Empire.
One is yet to come and will be brief: Hitler's Third Reich
The beast itself, the Eighth King/Empire: The Catholic Empire? ISIL? Egypt? Syria? Iran? Iraq? or EU? USA? The British Empire?
-- History will show, and as the Beast is a central founding element in all Christian nations, you'll find it's hoof prints and signatures all over the Christian world. It's multi-layered and highly faceted. Like I say, history will show, and as history is written by the winners, it could be virtually any nation or army, king, kalif or president. All the nations fit the gloves.

The seventh King is destroyed by God's Kingdom directly, as it is the final world power. (Daniel 2:44 described as feet of Iron and clay) So it can not be the Third Reich . The eighth king also is destroyed by God directly, so the 7th, and it's proxy (the eighth) coexist at the end.

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Fingon

Leviathan? Tiamat? Rahab? Yamm? It has even more names and you find it all over the ancient world. Politically it's heads represent the ancient world powers or empires who were/are the enemies of Israel from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Hitler's brief Reich to the Beast itself which is the Eighth, it's horns are extensions of power. Could be ISIL coupled with a European chapter I suppose. ISIL certainly fits the framework of something vicious and violent, like a wild beast, but a world empire? Armed to their teeth with all kinds of horns and fangs. Then again, it could be me or you, or USA or Islam or something completely different. There is no lack of contenders. "Some wait for Jesus, others wait for Cain."

Well yea there are many contenders but my personal belief is that america is the seventh beast since to me it best fits the description in the revelations and isiah of concerning mystery babylon. I would think most people find it hard to believe but i think that is part of satan plan which is to decieve the nations and lead as much of people astray.

The description to John with my interpretation:
Five have fallen: Empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece.
-- All are described as enemies of Israel in the Bible, and were world empires which at the time of John the Scribe, were fallen empires.
One is now: The Roman Empire.
One is yet to come and will be brief: Hitler's Third Reich
The beast itself, the Eighth King/Empire: The Catholic Empire? ISIL? Egypt? Syria? Iran? Iraq? or EU? USA? The British Empire?
-- History will show, and as the Beast is a central founding element in all Christian nations, you'll find it's hoof prints and signatures all over the Christian world. It's multi-layered and highly faceted. Like I say, history will show, and as history is written by the winners, it could be virtually any nation or army, king, kalif or president. All the nations fit the gloves.

The seventh King is destroyed by God's Kingdom directly, as it is the final world power. (Daniel 2:44 described as feet of Iron and clay) So it can not be the Third Reich . The eighth king also is destroyed by God directly, so the 7th, and it's proxy (the eighth) coexist at the end.

Daniel is slightly different than John's Apocalypse. Hitler is the "Little Horn" of Daniel's fourth beast, Daniel's fourth beast only has one head, but it has ten horns, and the Beast of the Apocalypse is a mix of all the four beasts of Daniel, with features of lion (Babylon) with two wings (representing Egypt and Assyria), bear (Medo-Persia) holding three ribs (the three aforementioned empires), leopard (Greece) and the fourth and last one with ten horns (Rome).

Now three horns were plucked out, and the little horn that came to replace them has almost human features and a loud speaker. When Hitler came to power, he turned the three offices of Präsident, Kanzler and Reichswehrminister replaced them with one office: Der Führer.

==> If you can believe it, Science is the mountain (in the vision of the statue) which is the kingdom of God, 'cause the Allied forces didn't win the war. Science did, or the power equivalent to that of hurling a bloody mountain through the air 'like a stone' or "wie ein Stein" in German-- ended the War. *Brass crescendo* -- Science will always prevail even beyond the era of the humans is but basalt and sediment. Science will never surrender. Science is Zion.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: Fingon

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: Fingon

Leviathan? Tiamat? Rahab? Yamm? It has even more names and you find it all over the ancient world. Politically it's heads represent the ancient world powers or empires who were/are the enemies of Israel from Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Hitler's brief Reich to the Beast itself which is the Eighth, it's horns are extensions of power. Could be ISIL coupled with a European chapter I suppose. ISIL certainly fits the framework of something vicious and violent, like a wild beast, but a world empire? Armed to their teeth with all kinds of horns and fangs. Then again, it could be me or you, or USA or Islam or something completely different. There is no lack of contenders. "Some wait for Jesus, others wait for Cain."

Well yea there are many contenders but my personal belief is that america is the seventh beast since to me it best fits the description in the revelations and isiah of concerning mystery babylon. I would think most people find it hard to believe but i think that is part of satan plan which is to decieve the nations and lead as much of people astray.

The description to John with my interpretation:
Five have fallen: Empires of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece.
-- All are described as enemies of Israel in the Bible, and were world empires which at the time of John the Scribe, were fallen empires.
One is now: The Roman Empire.
One is yet to come and will be brief: Hitler's Third Reich
The beast itself, the Eighth King/Empire: The Catholic Empire? ISIL? Egypt? Syria? Iran? Iraq? or EU? USA? The British Empire?
-- History will show, and as the Beast is a central founding element in all Christian nations, you'll find it's hoof prints and signatures all over the Christian world. It's multi-layered and highly faceted. Like I say, history will show, and as history is written by the winners, it could be virtually any nation or army, king, kalif or president. All the nations fit the gloves.

The seventh King is destroyed by God's Kingdom directly, as it is the final world power. (Daniel 2:44 described as feet of Iron and clay) So it can not be the Third Reich . The eighth king also is destroyed by God directly, so the 7th, and it's proxy (the eighth) coexist at the end.

Daniel is slightly different than John's Apocalypse. Hitler is the "Little Horn" of Daniel's fourth beast, Daniel's fourth beast only has one head, but it has ten horns, and the Beast of the Apocalypse is a mix of all the four beasts of Daniel, with features of lion (Babylon) with two wings (representing Egypt and Assyria), bear (Medo-Persia) holding three ribs (the three aforementioned empires), leopard (Greece) and the fourth and last one with ten horns (Rome).

Now three horns were plucked out, and the little horn that came to replace them has almost human features and a loud speaker. When Hitler came to power, he turned the three offices of Präsident, Kanzler and Reichswehrminister replaced them with one office: Der Führer.

==> If you can believe it, Science is the mountain (in the vision of the statue) which is the kingdom of God, 'cause the Allied forces didn't win the war. Science did, or the power equivalent to that of hurling a bloody mountain through the air 'like a stone' or "wie ein Stein" in German-- ended the War. *Brass crescendo* -- Science will always prevail even beyond the era of the humans is but basalt and sediment. Science will never surrender. Science is Zion.

You're on the right track, but not putting the pieces together. All of the 7 Kings are dominant powers. The beast with 10 horns of Daniel was Rome. The little horn was/is Great Britain, who along with the U.S. (the 7th) arose as the dominant power. Great Britain is the little horn that plucked 3 horns by surpassing 3 of the most prominent nations that arose out of Rome. (Spain, France, Netherlands) In 1588 Britain defeated the larger Spanish Armada, surpassed the larger wealth of the Netherlands in the 17th century, and continually defeated France all around the globe. Making it the power "in which the sun never sets"

a reply to: TheChrome

I once bet on red on the roulette and won three times in a row. Albert Speer's assignment from Hitler was to recreate the Roman Empire, only bigger, more grandiose an Arian utopia. Hitler never managed to prove he wasn't Jewish though. Which is kind of ironic. And Speer was the only one who admitted guilt at Nürnberg and sat every second of his prison sentence of 21 years.

Revelation predicts that this beast will come up from hell and make quite a stir. Look at Europe at the moment. It's about to blow, and this full fledged beast coming back up from hell in extension destroy the two witnesses (WTC) could very well be IS/ISIL/ISIS, which could represent some Kalif of Assyria where the ten lost tribes were lost track of. Hitler had support among the Muslim leaders in Jerusalem. Iran means "the Arian Nation" for instance. Rudolf Hess who was to design the new religion of the Dritte Reich, based it off of a fantasy myth about seven priests who would survive Atlantis and the Flood and come ashore high up in the Himalayas, where Nazi Germany sent several expeditions to measure heads and features, map genealogies and such. I mean, this guy even dressed the '36 Olympics with Nazi banners with Swaztikas and Adlers. The whole deal... Well it's rather obvious.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: TheChrome

I once bet on red on the roulette and won three times in a row. Albert Speer's assignment from Hitler was to recreate the Roman Empire, only bigger, more grandiose an Arian utopia. Hitler never managed to prove he wasn't Jewish though. Which is kind of ironic. And Speer was the only one who admitted guilt at Nürnberg and sat every second of his prison sentence of 21 years.

Revelation predicts that this beast will come up from hell and make quite a stir. Look at Europe at the moment. It's about to blow, and this full fledged beast from hell could very well be IS/ISIL/ISIS. Hitler had support among the Muslim leaders in Jerusalem. Iran means "the Arian Nation" for instance. Rudolf Hess who was to design the new religion of the Dritte Reich, based it on a fantasy about seven priests who would survive Atlantis and the Flood and come ashore high up in the Himalayas, where Nazi Germany sent several expeditions to measure heads and features, map genealogies and such. I mean, this guy even dressed the '36 Olympics with Nazi banners and Adlers. The whole deal... Well it's rather obvious.

What I am keeping an eye on is Daniel 11:35-45. This is the conflict between the US/GB and Russia. What is difficult to understand is who is who in this case. Russia and the US/GB is east/west. But this prophecy labels them as north/south. They both have many of the same characteristics. At Daniel 11:44 it says "reports from the east and from the north will disturb him, and he will set out in great rage to destroy and annihilate many." If the US/GB is the king of the North, 9/11 could be the fulfillment of these scriptures with the war on terrorism. If Russia is the king of the north, then the current situation in Ukraine may be a precursor to this prophesy.

a reply to: TheChrome

Chapter 11 was perfectly orchestrated by several kings following Alexander the Great when his Empire was divided among his generals. 'King of the South' is Ptolomy I Soter, his prince is Seleukos I Nikator is the king of Syria, or 'King of the North', the 'daughter' was Ptolomy II Philadefos' daughter Berenike, who married Antiokos II Theos, both were killed and it goes on and on, perfectly fulfilling Daniel's prophecy in chronologcal order. The evil king is Antiokos IV Epiphanes who also sacrificed a pig to Zeus in front of the Temple in Jerusalem and fulfilled the prophecy of the abomination of desolation. Daniel 11 is basically a history book. The Book of Daniel was unsealed when these things happened. Until then it had only been memorised by certain trusted scribes. The booke was unsealed and checked against the coarse of history. Daniel is mostly fulfilled. We can fly and go waterskiing for G's sake.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: TheChrome

Chapter 11 was perfectly orchestrated by several kings following Alexander the Great's Empire was divided among his generals. King of the South is Ptolomy I Soter, his prince is Seleukos I Nikator is King of the North, the 'daughter' was Ptolomy II Philadefos' daughter Berenike, who married Antiokos II Theos, both were killed and it goes on and on, perfectly fulfilling Daniel's prophecy in chronologcal order. The evil king is Antiokos IV Epiphanes who also sacrificed a pig to Zeus in front of the Temple in Jerusalem and fulfilled the prophecy of the abomination of desolation. Daniel 11 is basically a history book.

Not exactly, for the verses refer to "the time of the end".

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: TheChrome

Chapter 11 was perfectly orchestrated by several kings following Alexander the Great's Empire was divided among his generals. King of the South is Ptolomy I Soter, his prince is Seleukos I Nikator is King of the North, the 'daughter' was Ptolomy II Philadefos' daughter Berenike, who married Antiokos II Theos, both were killed and it goes on and on, perfectly fulfilling Daniel's prophecy in chronologcal order. The evil king is Antiokos IV Epiphanes who also sacrificed a pig to Zeus in front of the Temple in Jerusalem and fulfilled the prophecy of the abomination of desolation. Daniel 11 is basically a history book.

Not exactly, for the verses refer to "the time of the end".

In order for a scroll like Daniel to be unsealed, there are many things that must be fulfilled, just like how there is a similar prophecy sealed up in Revelation, which can only be opened and read by the Lamb of God. When all the signs had been fulfilled the scroll was opened, and there you go, "the time of the end". Then Michelangelo goes surfing, and Gabrielle heads for Bethlehem.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

"Surely the Sovereign Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7

Simple math, someone knows...

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I like Maigret idea (top of page 3) that the 8 kings are the popes ordained since the Lateran Treaty of 1929.

Also Pope Pius X revelation "What is certain is that the Pope will quit Rome, and in leaving the Vatican will have to walk over the dead bodies of his priests..... I have seen one of my successors, of the same name, who was fleeing over the bodies of his brethren." Pope Pius X first name is Giuseppe which is Joseph in English; Pope Benedict XVI was the first pope to quit Rome in 600 years, his first name is also Joseph.

Your remark "so the 7th, and it's proxy (the eighth) coexist at the end. " Pope Benedict XVI (7th Pope since Lantern treaty) still remains at the Vatican with the eighth Pope.

Revelation might be predicting WW3, a nuclear war that will destroy many and end the whore of babylon (paulinity).

Buckle up.

a reply to: TheChrome

Yes, the contents of these sealed scrolls are known to some initiates. The sealed scroll is a copy of the original scroll, unedited and untampered with, in it's original language and spelling. Hear the pipers and the thunders! Break the seal see the world go sunder.