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Does the beast in revelation 13,1 actually have 8 heads and not 7?

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posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Utnapisjtim





Count the crowns. Seven European kings with seven crowns add the Pope as "The Eighth", and you have ten crowns, seven heads and the beast itself, the Pope, and they all hump the leg of the half drunken giggling Church. The eighth hill and kingdom is the Vatican height and the Vatican Nation inside a Nation, Vatican vs. Italy or the late Roman Empire. It's not much of a mystery really. It's quite straightforward.


First of. It is not 7 hills. It is seven Mountains.


Oh, my, is there grass on them too? I'm afraid Strong sometimes is too narrow. The definition of Ancient Greek ὄρος, that is óros to us, is "mountain" or "high ground". As in hill or a height. ὄρος also has a more abstract definition, being "district", "sector", "precinct", "parish". (Source)


And it cant be the Vatican city because revelation is not talking about a physical mountain of rocks (where do yo get that from?).


The Vatican hill is often referred to as the eighth hill of Rome. Rome (and also Jerusalem) is centered around seven hills. These seven hills are:

  • Aventine Hill (Latin, Aventinus; Italian, Aventino)
  • Caelian Hill (Caelius, Celio)
  • Capitoline Hill (Capitolium, Campidoglio)
  • Esquiline Hill (Esquilinus, Esquilino)
  • Palatine Hill (Palatinus, Palatino)
  • Quirinal Hill (Quirinalis, Quirinale)
  • Viminal Hill (Viminalis, Viminale)

    Source


    The Mountains represent a hieracracy within a society with a multitude of People.
    There are ten horns all together, some of these hierocracies have more than one horn sinse there are only seven Mountains.


    Sure it isn't Yam, son of El, who was a monster with seven heads and if we are to believe the Sumerians, also had ten horns. In Hebrew he is called Leviathan or Rahab interchangeably. They are prophetic representations of Egypt, the Nile and a remnant from the times of pantheism, gods of the Earth and the astrological pantheons, gods of the Heavens. Some, like the Greek Zeus have both astrological and pantheistic properties, being the both the astrological planet Jupiter and at the same time be the god of thunder and lightning.

    Also at the end of the Holy Roman Empire, Great Germany was divided into ten districts. FEMA has USA split in ten districts. Pentagon has ten horns, being an elevated or extruded pentagon, giving it ten corners. The word 'Corner' is from Latin, Cornus, as in Unicorn or Capricorn. It means horn.


    The Kings are not really kings but will recieve the Power of kings for one hour With the beast (So the kings you speak of are not it). These kings mentioned in revelations are politicall leaders and not real kings.


    They are kings alright, but they have sworn loyalty to the Beast.
    edit on 18-7-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Link




  • posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 10:52 AM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim




    They are kings alright, but they have sworn loyalty to the Beast.


    No they have not. The 10 kings have sworn their loyalty to the whore. And they can not be Kings if revelations state that the ten crowns will recieve the Power as Kings over the beast for one hour.


    12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.


    The ten kings have received no Kingdom. Howe can they be true Kings?

    It is the People "the beast" that is loyal to the 10 kings. The 10 kings dont fallow the Word of comon People. The 10 kings proclaime that they are Gods authority on earth.

    These ten kings will act as one:


    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.


    So the Vatican is not going to produce the Antichirst With the number 666.


    I dont know where you get Your information from. But what every Your Source is stating it is wrong. Because in revelations it is mentioned what these Mountains are and what the ten kings are. And it sure aint what you are talking about.

    So if it aint any where near what you are talking about you are wrong.

    The verses that explain what the Mountains are:



    9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


    Pay attention: The seven heads are seven Mountains.


    15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.



    If the woman sits on 7 Mountains that are made up of Peoples, and multitueds, and nations, and tongues. It aint the Vatican city in Rome revelation is talking about.






    edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

    edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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    I think the beast started with seven heads, and got ahead in life.




    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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    a reply to: spy66

    In Western Norway there sits a nice town called Bergen, "the city by the seven mountains". On top of these mountains are a series of antennas or horns for TV, radio, phone and what not. Rains all the time. Went down one of the mountains on a sledge once. Great outdoors. Thing is you can make it mean just about anything. The whore is Rome/Vatican City, the beast is the Empires from Egypt, Assyria and Babylon to Persia, Greece, Rome and the Catholic empires, and pick any or all for the eighth which is the Beast itself: USA, Russia, Great Britain, Napoleon, Hitler, EU, China.... The Beast is live and is the current political paradigm, TPTB, the planned effect and fulfilment of Rome. Compare Hitler's rise to power with the "little horn" in Daniel. TPTB all mimic these patterns and use them to justify their positions and some divine right of kings to power and worship even though they deserve none.



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Thing is you can make it mean just about anything. The whore is Rome . . .
    I think the important thing to understand is that to the people in that time when Revelation was written, a really powerful evil force could cause enough human misery that the collective suffering could call out to the god (or gods) to bring about a "Day of the Lord" scenario such as is described in Revelation 6, where you have the four horsemen with Death, and the souls under the altar crying out for vengeance, then describing a world-ending chain of events.

    So you have this sort of tension between the tipping to the brink of total annihilation to stop the pain the beast causes, and the emergence of a people to make the world worth saving, like those coming "out of Babylon".
    edit on 18-7-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
    a reply to: spy66

    In Western Norway there sits a nice town called Bergen, "the city by the seven mountains". On top of these mountains are a series of antennas or horns for TV, radio, phone and what not. Rains all the time. Went down one of the mountains on a sledge once. Great outdoors. Thing is you can make it mean just about anything. The whore is Rome/Vatican City, the beast is the Empires from Egypt, Assyria and Babylon to Persia, Greece, Rome and the Catholic empires, and pick any or all for the eighth which is the Beast itself: USA, Russia, Great Britain, Napoleon, Hitler, EU, China.... The Beast is live and is the current political paradigm, TPTB, the planned effect and fulfilment of Rome. Compare Hitler's rise to power with the "little horn" in Daniel. TPTB all mimic these patterns and use them to justify their positions and some divine right of kings to power and worship even though they deserve none.


    The thing is, it is not a Mountain revelations are trying to describe. Revelations mentiones the sea as well, but it is not talking about the Ocean.

    Both the sea and the mountain are People. Therefor they can not represent a hill or a mountain.

    That is why the seven Mountains can not be: De syv toppene rundt Bergen heller.

    Revelation donsent have anything to do With the Old Rome either.
    edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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    originally posted by: spy66

    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
    a reply to: spy66

    In Western Norway there sits a nice town called Bergen, "the city by the seven mountains". On top of these mountains are a series of antennas or horns for TV, radio, phone and what not. Rains all the time. Went down one of the mountains on a sledge once. Great outdoors. Thing is you can make it mean just about anything. The whore is Rome/Vatican City, the beast is the Empires from Egypt, Assyria and Babylon to Persia, Greece, Rome and the Catholic empires, and pick any or all for the eighth which is the Beast itself: USA, Russia, Great Britain, Napoleon, Hitler, EU, China.... The Beast is live and is the current political paradigm, TPTB, the planned effect and fulfilment of Rome. Compare Hitler's rise to power with the "little horn" in Daniel. TPTB all mimic these patterns and use them to justify their positions and some divine right of kings to power and worship even though they deserve none.


    The thing is, it is not a Mountain revelations are trying to describe. Revelations mentiones the sea as well, but it is not talking about the Ocean.


    Yam is the Hebrew word for waters, seas and even rivers, and is of Chaldean origin. It is the name of a seven headed dragon with ten horns who is one of the sons of El, and was the god or angel of the waters and rivers. The water dragon depicted in Revelation 12. Leviathan. Draco. In art and lore he is an enemy of both Ba'al and Yahveh and is one of the Elohim, the children of El, the Father. I recommend this book here ==> www.amazon.com... -- it's called The Early History of God, by Mark S. Smith. Tons of useful material.


    Both the sea and the mountain are People. Therefor they can not represent a hill or a mountain.


    Oh, they are multifaceted these beasts, every feature means a bunch of things, and just as much as the heads represent persons and empires, they also represent the ancient imperial power structure.

    Many waters as in the mystery title of Babylon is S.P.Q.R. Senātus Populus Que Rōmānus which translates into "The Senate and People of Rome". Rome or Roma is Amor written right to left. However there's plenty of other mysterious elements to Roma. It comes from Ruma, lit. breast, since the two "horns" Remus and Romulus were rescued from the river and breastfed by a Lupa, often depicted in art and described literature as a shewolf. Lupa is also a well documented word for prostitute in Latin. There is the joke about how 'Rome has the largest population of wolves in the world' because of this. As for the chalice she is holding, read my signature.


    That is why the seven Mountains can not be: De syv toppene rundt Bergen heller.


    God knows...


    Revelation donsent have anything to do With the Old Rome either.


    These structures are nothing but the result of or the heart of the Christian Civilisation. They believe in and worship a sacrificed human sheep who is God, nailed to a cross, they somehow believe their Jesus-Beast had to be sacrificed so that they might live. Jesus doesn't like it one bit.
    edit on 18-7-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Added quite a bit



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim


    breast, since the two "horns" Remus and Romulus Text

    i believe, Alexander ,would take umbridge with that,,part.

    ", since the two "horns" Remus and Romulus "

    the two "horns" i do believe begins with Alexander.




    edit on 7/18/2014 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

    edit on 7/18/2014 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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    originally posted by: BobAthome




    a reply to: Utnapisjtim


    breast, since the two "horns" Remus and Romulus Text

    i believe, Alexander ,would take umbridge with that,,part.

    ", since the two "horns" Remus and Romulus "

    the two "horns" i do believe begins with Alexander.





    In prophecy horns refer to many different things. Alexander is more like the part when Javan is split among his generals. A whole different beast and book I'm afraid. Peter and Paul may be seen as the horns of the elected Catholic prophet called 'the Pope'. Or they may be represented by the corkscrew curls that grows by the temples. The Lamb of God has seven horns. The horn is also a male symbol of masculine power. You can see it used in heraldry and as chevrons in army distinctions. Turned downwards the chivron becomes a embracing woumb or a chalice, the female counterpart.

    But there was a time where The Greek Empire was run by ten generals, called Strategos, elected for one year at the time. We have the word strategy from this title:

    en.wikipedia.org...

    Little is known of the number and method of appointment of Athenian strategoi in the 6th century, but in 501 BC, a new arrangement was introduced by which ten strategoi were elected annually, one from each phyle. The ten were of equal status


    And by the Hellenistic era:

    Philip II of Macedon was elected as strategos autokrator (commander-in-chief with full powers) in the League of Corinth. Parmenion the Macedonian general also had the title of strategos.


    And

    Under the Roman Republic and later through the Principate, Greek historians often used the term strategos when referring to the Roman political/military office of praetor. Such a use can be found in the New Testament: Acts 16:20 refers to the magistrates of Philippi as strategoi (στρατηγοί). Correspondingly, antistrategos ("vice-general") was used to refer to the office of propraetor.

    edit on 18-7-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Last two ex quotes



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 06:50 PM
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    I don't mean to interject here, but lots of people have been trying to decipher this a long time. The Freemasons or skilled workers that have been around for centuries and were the best and brightest. In the 1950s my grandfather was contacted by the American government to be a part of a project lets call it " Phoenix" cause I was in the hospital when 13 told by doctors that I fell off a train and later found out I was jumped by some kids and stabbed in the male genitals.

    You keep saying," let thou who has wisdom know" and then," where a woman sitteth". I don't know about 2000 years ago , but I know where a WOMAN sitteth. I know the bible is supposed to be sacred. I am a lifelong catholic non practicer.

    My own threads talk about the NWO and the illuminati and Freemasons. I used to be part of this government program that disbanded 2012. I was kept in the dark and used and afterward given time to reflect and put all the pieces together. I had a massive head injury and it took time to get better and was stupid years ago because of it. Sorry if anything I said sounded blasfamous.



    posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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    a reply to: letmeon

    Well, it does say that all of this will be sealed up until the end. To me this means we will not understand until the time is come. None of that means we can't try to understand.



    posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 09:15 AM
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    originally posted by: ketsuko
    a reply to: letmeon

    Well, it does say that all of this will be sealed up until the end.


    Revelation 22:10f
    And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”



    posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    I have been Reading revelations over and over now. Personaly i can not find that revlations can have many meanings. The angel explains prity clearly what John is seeing. But i gues that Depends on the mind that is Reading? One can make a lot of Things up from this, but it shouldnt be that hard to know that they must be on the wrong track.



    posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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    a reply to: spy66

    The angel shows John a beast with seven heads. It comes out of the sea. The word for sea in Hebrew is Yam. Yam is also the name of the Cananean god of the sea, a seven headed dragon, with a river coming out from his mouth. Still, it means so much more. The second beast comes out of the earth. Hebrew for earth is eretz, and Adam was named after the clay he was made of, Adama, Red Henna. Eretz also means The Holy Land, but again, it means so much more. When you have uncovered a new layer of esoteric encryption, ten new dimensions of fuel for madness appear, to veil it further in.
    edit on 19-7-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: more info



    posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 05:10 PM
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    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

    originally posted by: ketsuko
    a reply to: letmeon

    Well, it does say that all of this will be sealed up until the end.


    Revelation 22:10f
    And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”





    But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”


    Daniel 12:4

    Those seals are not to be broken until the time of the end.

    Telling us not to hide the prophecy is different than telling us we can understand it. Yes, we all are familiar with Revelation, but none of us really knows what it means. How can we? Only He will break those seals. Until then, we can only guess and go here and there to try to increase our knowledge.
    edit on 19-7-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 05:50 PM
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    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
    a reply to: spy66

    The angel shows John a beast with seven heads. It comes out of the sea. The word for sea in Hebrew is Yam. Yam is also the name of the Cananean god of the sea, a seven headed dragon, with a river coming out from his mouth. Still, it means so much more. The second beast comes out of the earth. Hebrew for earth is eretz, and Adam was named after the clay he was made of, Adama, Red Henna. Eretz also means The Holy Land, but again, it means so much more. When you have uncovered a new layer of esoteric encryption, ten new dimensions of fuel for madness appear, to veil it further in.


    This is the beast that the angel showed John:




    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


    The beast that John was shown was the eighth and is of the seven. John described the beast With just seven heads.
    Its like John never saw the eighth beast, because John never described it.



    posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:54 AM
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    originally posted by: ketsuko

    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

    originally posted by: ketsuko
    a reply to: letmeon

    Well, it does say that all of this will be sealed up until the end.


    Revelation 22:10f
    And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.”





    But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”


    Daniel 12:4

    Those seals are not to be broken until the time of the end.

    Telling us not to hide the prophecy is different than telling us we can understand it. Yes, we all are familiar with Revelation, but none of us really knows what it means. How can we? Only He will break those seals. Until then, we can only guess and go here and there to try to increase our knowledge.


    Yes, that's Daniel, but we are clearly reading it, so it has been unsealed.



    posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:27 AM
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    originally posted by: spy66

    originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
    a reply to: spy66

    The angel shows John a beast with seven heads. It comes out of the sea. The word for sea in Hebrew is Yam. Yam is also the name of the Cananean god of the sea, a seven headed dragon, with a river coming out from his mouth. Still, it means so much more. The second beast comes out of the earth. Hebrew for earth is eretz, and Adam was named after the clay he was made of, Adama, Red Henna. Eretz also means The Holy Land, but again, it means so much more. When you have uncovered a new layer of esoteric encryption, ten new dimensions of fuel for madness appear, to veil it further in.


    This is the beast that the angel showed John:




    8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


    11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


    The beast that John was shown was the eighth and is of the seven. John described the beast With just seven heads.
    Its like John never saw the eighth beast, because John never described it.


    That's not the vision. It's the interpretation. It has seven heads. The eighth king is the beast itself, it's body, the king who is an incarnation of Yam and Tiamat, Leviathan and Rahab. It started with the waters, or the sea, which is Yam. Through the development of panteistic religion, Yam, the god of 'yam' ('sea') evolved. And it became Babylon who sits on top. Just like in Daniel when he interprets his visions. But it runs both ways, for by "riding the Beast", Babylon controls the waters.



    posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:23 AM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Reading it and understanding it are two different things.

    If we actually understood it, we wouldn't have endless debates about what it actually means.

    We are allowed to freely read and should so that we will understand it when we see its fulfillment begin to happen.


    edit on 20-7-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



    posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 09:28 AM
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    a reply to: ketsuko

    The vision of the Beast:
    Revelation 13:1 [ESV] And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.

    The Angel's explanation of the Vision of the Beast:
    Revelation 17:9ff [ESV] This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.

    The beast John saw has seven heads, not five not eight, but seven. However the beast represents eight kings and ten princes. The beast itself is one king and it's seven heads represent seven more kings. The ten horns are ten kings that will rule on behalf of the Beast itself ("the Eighth"). The seven heads are the seven hills of Rome, and the eighth is Rome itself, including the Vatican and the Pope as "the Eighth". At the core of the Roman Catholic Church is mystical and sacred music. In Psalms we learn that "The Eighth" refers to the "octave" or the do-re-mi musical scale:

    DO-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti-DO.

    As there are only seven notes in the scale, the octave is the same as "The First" note and "The Eighth", in effect "the first and the last". This is deep and profound mystical science, and penetrates all ancient wisdom and science. By combining these syllables, you can make quite a few obscene words, and there are other systems used too, designed to produce magical formulae. Music isn't just nice to listen to. It is the core of the Quadrivium and the heart of all ancient and occult science.

    See Wikipedia article about the Solfège system for more. Like how all 12 chromatic notes have a syllable connected to it.

    There are basically three different main musical scale systems in use. Diatonic (do-re-mi), Chromatic (all black and white keys in an octave on the piano) and Pentatonic (natural scale). See ==> en.wikipedia.org...
    edit on 20-7-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Link s and misc



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