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Declaration Of Independence Banned in California School!!

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posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 11:43 PM
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Just when I thought this wacky world couldn't get any wackier, THIS shows up in the press! Now, maybe it really is just me, but doesn't this strike anybody else as Liberalism stepping WAY over the line?

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A California teacher has been barred by his school from giving students documents from American history that refer to God -- including the Declaration of Independence.

Steven Williams, a fifth-grade teacher at Stevens Creek School in the San Francisco Bay area suburb of Cupertino, sued for discrimination on Monday, claiming he had been singled out for censorship by principal Patricia Vidmar because he is a Christian.

"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

"Williams wants to teach his students the true history of our country," he said. "There is nothing in the Establishment Clause (of the U.S. Constitution) that prohibits a teacher from showing students the Declaration of Independence."

Vidmar could not be reached for comment on the lawsuit, which was filed on Monday in U.S. District Court in San Jose and claims violations of Williams rights to free speech under the First Amendment.

Phyllis Vogel, assistant superintendent for Cupertino Unified School District, said the lawsuit had been forwarded to a staff attorney. She declined to comment further.

Williams asserts in the lawsuit that since May he has been required to submit all of his lesson plans and supplemental handouts to Vidmar for approval, and that the principal will not permit him to use any that contain references to God or Christianity.

Among the materials she has rejected, according to Williams, are excerpts from the Declaration of Independence, George Washington's journal, John Adams' diary, Samuel Adams' "The Rights of the Colonists" and William Penn's "The Frame of Government of Pennsylvania."

"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote," said Thompson, a lawyer for the Alliance Defense Fund, which advocates for religious freedom. "The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case of a California atheist who wanted the words "under God" struck from the Pledge of Allegiance as recited by school children. The appeals court in California had found that the phrase amounted to a violation of church and state separation." ~Rueters Cover Story

I think I got the whole story in here. Now, PLEASE explain something to me. Why in the world would any sane person vote "ves" on this districts next Bond Issue?? Or, at worst, does this school board actually have parents pushing for this action? Personally, I think firing is too good for 'em...but what do YOU think?




posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:10 AM
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This is whats wrong. Not who won the election. It garbage like this so peoples "feelings" don't get hurt that cause reaction from a majority to yell in an uproar about how absoulty BEYOND IGNORANT this has become.

Taking God out of God Bless America is brilliant. Mess up a song thats been around forever so "everyone feels included". Learn to be tolerant ya bunch of PU****.

OOPS cant say the Pleadge of Alliegance in school. Athiests get offended. Well God Damn we wouldn't want to ruin your day because someone said God. Here go ahead and burn this trinket plastic cross, you will feel better. GET OVER IT.

Hmmm my favorite for my kids. No more grades at my kids school. REALLY. An F might hurt the childs feeling as the other kids are enjoying their A's or other higher grades earned on the test. No, give him a N. Need Improvement is easier to handle. Oh and you cannot have that A, Its an O OUTSTANDING!! Everyone feel good now? Good here we go. Poor Sally did not bring up her N for the year. But since her classmates are moving to the next grade, we won't hurt her self esteem because her friends move on yet she need to repeat the grade. We will let her move up and hope she catches up. GREAT now she learns there are no problems with poor work and better yet!!! SHE CANT READ. Well boy howdy.

THE ALL TIME WINNER. This is just incredible. LETS let the ILLEGAL immigrants have access to our over crowded schools and give the some rights. WHAT. Here we have some poor soul who was unlucky enough to have a joint fall out of his pocket eating at a burger joint next to a couple of police officers. The guy probably goes to work every day and earns a living. YET HE IS IN JAIL WITH NO RIGHTS. Wow war on drugs. Meanwhile the people who ILLEGAL entered our country and are STILL ILLEGAL get to use our tax dollars to go to school and have basic rights. NOW this is complete and utter 100% BULL SHI.

Its time to go back and reflect on how we became a country and no matter who you voted for come together as a nation and drill some serious old fashion American sleeve up work done plans that WE as a whole want and tell these RICH " I feel your pain." Politicians where to stick it if they do not start listening to the people of this country again. Im sure his 12 million in his checking account understands my paycheck. Kick em all out of office if they don't want to see what the people want BACK in this US OF A.

I belive that I would vote for a guy who in his first speech stood up and said that he was in his past a drunk pot smoking beetnik and was honest about it as long as he or she had some CLUE as to what need to happen around here.

I live close D.C. and have easy access to the Senate buildings and House of Representitives ( the Peoples voice, my butt. Since when do most of the *people* have a few million laying around to campaign and pretend you are actually doing something? )

Write up something that a majority can agree upon and a petition and I will hand deliver that to each and every Congressman and Senators office.

People need to stir it up if you want it back. Its is time for the people to take our country back from greed and pork and lifetime politicians.

[edit on 12/2/2004 by just_a_pilot]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:21 AM
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And I thought that atheist whackjob, Newdow, was bad.

This about takes the cake here! The Constitution was based on Biblical principles, like it or not.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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Talk about revisionist history. Can't talk about the Declaration of Independence in school. How do we explain the attitude of the founding fathers that started the war of Independence?



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:48 AM
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This has already been discussed on another thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The teacher had an agenda, thats pretty easy to see. The questions becomes whether he should have been removed rather than the document.

bg



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:06 AM
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The last thing kids need is some pathetic, religious, zealot trying to force religion down their throats. Consitution is ok to teach, religion isn't...



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:13 AM
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Can you imagine how confusing this is to the kids? They won't know who or what to believe in. Every time they learn something, someone comes in and says- no its not this way it is this way. They have no stability in learning concepts. All in the name of political correctness!



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:21 AM
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It would be wrong to teach kids to BE religious*, but it would be crazy not to teach them ABOUT religions. For good or for bad (mostly bad, IMHO), religion has been a major part of the history of the human race and cannot be ignored.

My kids (here in the UK) are required to attend Religious Education (parents can opt them out, though)...it bothered me at first, but turns out they're taught about religions (all different ones, but with an obvious emphasis on good ole christianity). This doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

(* Except, of course, in church-run schools...which I don't personally agree with, but that's a decision for parents...parents can legally do many not-so-bright things, and I guess that isn't as bad a some of them...)



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:42 AM
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Denying a child the right to learn about religion, a supreme being and a possible meaning to our lives is just as bad as forcing a specific religion down a childs throat.

Life should always be about options and choices.

This is silly!



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:29 AM
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It should be covered everywhere so people can realize that there is NO denying some IGNORANCE.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:50 AM
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The only part of the declaration that has reference to 'god' is the 'on this day of our lord....' part no?


Originally posted by Toelint


"It's a fact of American history that our founders were religious men, and to hide this fact from young fifth-graders in the name of political correctness is outrageous and shameful," said Williams' attorney, Terry Thompson.

its a fact that many of them were 'religious' and that many more merely beleived in a god of some sorts and that many of them had no faith in the bible at all. Is this teacher slanting all the information to promote some revisionist history?


"He hands out a lot of material and perhaps 5 to 10 percent refers to God and Christianity because that's what the founders wrote,"

aso basically this guy is cherry picking quotes from various founders and untruly telling students that this is a 'christian nation' founded on christian principles and law? Does he explain to teh students just what diesm is and why it has almost nothing to do with modern christianity?



"The principal seems to be systematically censoring material that refers to Christianity and it is pure discrimination."

If they can make the case that they are preventig the teacher from wrongfully overstating the christianity of the founders then they are in the right.




Why in the world would any sane person vote "ves" on this districts next Bond Issue??

Well, since they probably aren't discriminating against christians but merely want the students to get a proper education, one would probably have no problem at all voting for funding for the school. WHy would any sane person shoot down the budget of their own kid's school?


Personally, I think firing is too good for 'em...but what do YOU think?

I think that if this guy is trying to promote some oft repeated and much espoused agenda of re-writting history so that it looks like christianity had more to do with it than it really did then he's doing a disservice to the students and probably is wrongfully mixing in his religious ideas in with the class.

just a pilot
Taking God out of God Bless America is brilliant. Mess up a song thats been around forever

Er? It was the pledge. Neither the pledge nore he song have been around for ever. THe pledge itself was written by a socialist in the 1900s i thinkand the god bit was added by the congress because some of the religious republicans wanted to distinguish what they thought was the christian and pious' character of the nation.

amethyst
The Constitution was based on Biblical principles, like it or not.

The constituion and the entire state that the founders envisioned had nothign to do with christianity or biblical law. When they wanted a model for inspiration for their State they looked to the Roman Republic and the Spartan City-state, not the 'City of God' or a monastery in the dark ages.

knights
Talk about revisionist history. Can't talk about the Declaration of Independence in school.

yeah, talk about revisionism. The article said that the school didn't let him hand out a selected portion of it, not the whole thing, and not that you weren't allowed to discuss it. Apparently he was cherry picking stuff to push some agenda and historicla revisionism.

jeez louise
They have no stability in learning concepts

Thats right, this guy shouldn't be allowed to go around mucking up their education telling them that, no, the founders weren't secular and no, they weren't interested in establishing the rule of law and the rights of man, but instead were just trying to formulate a country in accordance with god's will.

edited to clean attributions. moving discussion to open thread

[edit on 2-12-2004 by Nygdan]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:04 AM
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This topic being discussed here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Closed.



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