There are no angels.

originally posted by: seagull

Still you prattle on, and on, about the evil whomever.

what is this about prattling on and on??

a reply to: spirited75

What do you suppose it is? It's not terribly hard to figure out.

a reply to: seagull

your logic is invalid.

you cannot possibly claim to know what would happen if...

you cannot excuse Israel or any other country for that matter based on that kind of thinking.

I don't understand how the number of victims doesn't matter?

when talking about other (maybe more important ethnic groups) numbers are very important.

try to change millions to thousands in some instances and you may finish in jail in some countries.

you know what I'm talking about.

originally posted by: demus
I don't understand how the number of victims doesn't matter?

Really? You want to start adding up numbers to see who has killed more people through history... the Jews or the Muslims? Do you REALLY want to go there???

originally posted by: demus
try to change millions to thousands in some instances and you may finish in jail in some countries. you know what I'm talking about.

Yeah ... holocaust denial.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I am saying the number of victims in current conflict DOES matter.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: seagull

your logic is invalid.

My logic is fine thanks. This is an issue where logic seldom, if ever, applies.

you cannot possibly claim to know what would happen if...

No, I can't. I can, however, extrapolate based on past behaviour. ...and it ain't promising. Stop pretending that the Palestinians are all innocent victims in this tragedy. They aren't. Some, indeed, are. But all too many actively support the bloodshed.

you cannot excuse Israel or any other country for that matter based on that kind of thinking.

I support Israel in nothing. Certainly not this. Once, yes, I did... But no more. Not ever again. This behaviour is inexcusable. On the part of Palestine. On the part of Israel. On the part of my own nation. Do You Understand That?

If not, I'll be happy to explain it yet again.

I don't understand how the number of victims doesn't matter?

The only reason, the only one, that the casualty figures aren't more equal (horrible way to phrase that, sorry...), is the Palestinians lack the wherewithal to make them so. Not because of some intrinsic superiority.

when talking about other (maybe more important ethnic groups) numbers are very important.

try to change millions to thousands in some instances and you may finish in jail in some countries.

you know what I'm talking about.

Holocaust Denial. Yes, I'm familiar with that odious occupation of some. Not quite sure what that has to do with this, perhaps you'll elucidate?

a reply to: seagull

you are the one claiming that it doesn't matter which side has more (civilian) victims.

I am giving the most sensitive example to prove that number of (civilian) victims DOES matter.

a reply to: demus

It's not for lack of trying that the Palestinians haven't killed more jews. Hell .. their kids TV programming are full of indoctrination about becoming a martyr for Islam and going out and killing pig jews.

Face it ... both sides are soaked in blood. Neither side has the moral high ground. And the leadership of both Israel and the Palestinians don't want peace. Peace would put the leadership out of business and out of power. It would cut off all the 'aid money' that goes flowing in.

I remember Arafat lining his Swiss bank accounts with tens of millions of $$$ in 'aid money' that was supposed to go to the 'Palestinians'. It's a business for the leadership over there. And the people are falling for it ...

a reply to: demus

I'll try this again.

It does matter. But you are using those figures as a pawn in some game of "the Israelis are worse than the Palestinians".

That's what I'm saying. The deaths of those, for the most part, innocents do, most assuredly, matter to me. Why else the thread to begin with?

You, and others, are somehow equating the depth of evil by sheer numbers of the dead. I'm saying that the only reason that the Palestinians haven't killed more people is that they lack the means to do so, not the will.

I don't call for blood and I've met both a Palestinian and a Israeli and I have asked them both why they hate each other so much. its as if one of them killed the others brother or something. their hatred for one another is so deep rooted you would never be able to bring true peace to them because they were brought up to hate them to even despise them as if they are some sort of devil worshipper.(although I dislike Islam as it I think it is a sick, controlling religion but they're just my views) but there are always going to be conflicts in that region because that's the way they are I don't judge them for it because they cant help it. some people are hippies. Some are conspiracy theorist(cough, cough) and some well they just relish violence. It's the way it has been for thousands of years and it will continue to be like this for thousands more years.my opinion is we should gate them in and let them annihilate each other(sick I know but to let them spread their fear and hatred could cause more death and mayhem)

a reply to: seagull

To be honest, we are all just people with a keyboard and an ideal. We aren't the ones over there who are there offering solutions or trying to broker peace, all we can do is sit at the virtual coffee table and debate the situation and in the meantime Gaza is being bombed.

I'm in agreement with the original sentiment though- the blood for blood argument is like trying to make two wrongs into a right and has more to do with personal satisfaction rather than a solution.

a reply to: seagull

This is the most pointless post in awhile. Basically starting a thread to tell everybody to shut the hell up. Good way to promote dialogue.

a reply to: seagull

2.5 million extra stars for you. Finally, a voice of reason.

The angels are actually aliens.

a reply to: spy66

You know, last time I check God couldn't interfere with peoples free will.

I personally don't agree with your statement, since religion, in general always want to believe it right just how a scientist want to predict the next set of events. And if things can't be changed, then it God dealing punishment to the sinners for lacking faith, or failing in some form of teachings.

The only reason why it can't stopped, is because those people, Isreali, or Palestinian don't want it to stop. They need each other to feel significant, like lovers.

If they were really smart, and actually had a compassionate religion, that doesn't blatantly try to enforce its...errr....wisdom!?...then they could easily just talk about it without fighting each other.

But no...They are just two stupid countries, most of the world couldn't give a crap about.


Hell, look at the New Testament and the Roman Catholic church. The church supports the crap out of that book, even though the book points in their direction, saying it some murderous Ho, that likes to suck the life out of things. And that its a beast of revelation...

Please...It like watching a movie with a plot twist, to screw with ppls mind. Hell, it pretty much admitting it an evil organization in it own scriptures.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: demus

You, and others, are somehow equating the depth of evil by sheer numbers of the dead. I'm saying that the only reason that the Palestinians haven't killed more people is that they lack the means to do so, not the will.

Hmm...Now I'm beginning to believe the whole point of this thread is to object to any bias against Israel. Equalise if you will the contribution of misery heaped on Palestinians as being the same as that dished out to Israel by the Palestinians. This I do not agree with. You could say, the only reason Israel haven't wiped out the palestinians already yet is because their settlement expansion program only advances at the tempo required to accomodate population growth. Why even mention this? It does not tally with the spirit of your thread?

a reply to: seagull

The problem is that the Israeli system is a multi-multi party system. 12 parties in the Knesset:

www.knesset.gov.il...

Coalitions have to be made. This is what keep the same crazy people in power.

a reply to: robbo961

You go right ahead and believe that.

...and, I suppose, though I could be wrong, you can also go right ahead and keep believing that the Palestinians can do no wrong...that they're nothing but innocents wronged here, with non blood on their hands, either.

originally posted by: Specimen
Hell, look at the New Testament and the Roman Catholic church. The church supports the crap out of that book...

The Roman Catholic "Church" HATES the Word of God just like all other cults do.

Although many Catholic's do in fact love the Word.

Words do not matter, ACTIONS matter.

Religion always SAYS one thing but does another.

Jesus OPPOSED religion and the religious people hated Him.

The Vatican has numerous documents declaring her hatred for the Word.

After The Roman Catholic church got underway, they immediately started killing Bible believing Christians with the Inquisition. Christians were and still ARE considered an enemy to Romes pagan beliefs
www.youtube.com...

"Opened on Thursday alongside the Inquisition archives was the infamous Index of Forbidden Books, which Roman Catholics were forbidden to read or possess on pain of excommunication. They showed that even "the Bible" was once on the blacklist. Translations of the holy book ended up on the bonfires along with other ``heretical'' works...

"Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament; ...we most strictly forbid their having any translation of these books."
paintingpictures.xanga.com...

"...the RCC killed and tortured over 50 million bible believing Christians during the Catholic Inquisition whose only heresy was that they would not pay homage to the Pope and place him on equal ground with Jesus Christ and owned a Bible which was srictly forbidden by the RCC so that they know not the truth....
www.raptureforums.com...

Roman Catholics and the pope wanted to use the Council of Trent to stop those godless Protestants and Destroy their heretical Bible.
www.theologyweb.com...

• The Catholic Church did not give us the Bible because no religious movement gives literature that condemns the very teaching of that religious movement.

• If the Catholic Church gave the Bible to us why does it so thoroughly condemn the Roman Catholic hierarchy and the doctrines and practices of the Catholic Church?

• If the Catholic Church gave the world the Bible why has she always opposed the Bible?

As you can see from their own writings the Catholic Church has always opposed the Bible. Why then did the Catholic Church give us the Bible according to their claim? If the Catholic Church is the official interpreter of the Bible then why did God wait several centuries after giving the Bible to establish the Catholic Church?

www.portlandchristians.net...

Hi guys,

Watching the discussion myself.

I look at this slightly differently - I suppose.

There is a question as to whether historical behaviour should be taken into account.

Both sides say enough, let's have peace - forget the past - no historical accounting of victims. Then someone breaks the status quo, kills people, and we resume the theme: occupation and self defence. Then we start again, both sides saying enough - let's have peace - forget the past - no historical accounting of victims..,.. and the cycle goes on.

Who is right?

Isreal is a highly overcrowded place in my personal opinion. Yeah, you are going to have a great deal of bloodshed. But so is the planet for that matter - given the lifestyle the most modern portions of the world choose to live and propagate. Yeah, there is going to be a lot of bloodshed (ok, everyone else may/may not be in a state of war, but even economic warfare is going on right now in North America) - and soon the results will be out, when the governments can no longer borrow any money to sustain the North American economy.