Black Mass Planned for Oklahoma City Sept 2014

I know a satanist well, he said there was undoubtedly darkness vs light, had summoned and dealt with the dark energy, but the light was the most powerful, I'll talk to him and see what he thinks, this person is like a genius, a philosopher, practiced Enocian magic, he no longer practices Satanism.

God is light and in him there is no darkness.

The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Wow, he said they are phoney role players, real satanist don't show themselves, the true evil is hiding in plain sight proclaiming to be good.

I'll talk to him more later, maybe he will post, probably not but he tells me so much I can't remember it all.

originally posted by: buster2010
People have just as much a right to worship Satan in this nation as people have to worship God. If people don't like it they are free to move to a country where it isn't allowed. The right to worship Satan is covered in the First Amendment because it is a religion.

Satanist don't worship Satan - they're actually quite explicit about their godlessness...

As Anton LaVey explained in his classic work The Satanic Bible, Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.

www.churchofsatan.com...

So I say, *good* for the Satanists.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Hey Stormdancer,

I'll talk to him more later, maybe he will post

I hope he does, he doesn't sound like he falls in either the LaVey or Greaves variety of satanism, which I understand to be neither theistic or spiritualistic. Although, it seems to me that there are certain spiritual elements in the LaVey variety.

a reply to: UnderGetty

You just dreamed up something infinitely worse than these modern satanists have ever actually expressed. Well done? I see this so often -- "this group is terrible, let me tell you in exacting detail my imagination of just how terrible." You actually outdid the allegedly evil satanists. So now I think they're mostly harmless but I'm scared of whoever you stand with.

My religion says there is no one "Satan", and the destructive forces in humanity come from indulging the atavistic self. Sometimes satanists claim to be about that, but the theology is quite restrictive, kind of a spiritual Objectivism for people who like genre fiction more than realism. On the face it is about ennobling the human self, but since full selfishness is impossible to reconcile with respect for the other, it regulates for a balanced indulgence.

I think my sources instincts were right, here is the Satanic church leader with history

blogs.dallasobserver.com...

I found it interesting he seems to be borrowing from yazidism and zoroastrianism, looks like a little Voudoo as well.

Dallas has been more hostile than Oklahoma to Daniels' brand of satanism, he says. He thinks it might be because followers do stuff like stand in front of First Baptist downtown and skewer a Robert Jeffress stick-pin doll.

Adam Daniels, head of Dakhma of Angra Mainyu, said in an interview, “We’re trying to bring about tolerance for our religious freedom for the satanic religion.

Yet he is intolerant, oh wait,
I wonder if he knows he has absolutely nothing in common with yazidism and zoroastrianism

Oh well

Anecdotal evidence like "I know a guy ..." means little regarding any topic.

I know a guy, for example, that claims YHVH, the god worshipped by Christians, is really a blind insane demon named Samael.

I am aware that it makes more sense to some to believe that there is only one type of Satanist when one needs to find a boogey-man under every bush, but, that's just not true.

I don't expect this to make even one tiny dint in any beliefs, however.

I would agree that evil hides behind the facade of good though ... that has nothing to do with Satanists.

William

In my opinion, the Church of Satan has done what every religion does, even when it's an "anti-religion" of sorts ... memberships in the upper echelons of the COS are quite expensive ... and the leadership like Peter Gilmore and Blanche Barton want to maintain their "brand recognition."

People like Lucien and TST basically give it away ... and that's bad for business.

If you'd like to check out some Theistic Satanists, you might try the Temple of Set or the Temple of the Black Light.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I am absolutely aware that there are different sects of satanism.

originally posted by: imwilliam
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Hey Stormdancer,

I'll talk to him more later, maybe he will post

I hope he does, he doesn't sound like he falls in either the LaVey or Greaves variety of satanism, which I understand to be neither theistic or spiritualistic. Although, it seems to me that there are certain spiritual elements in the LaVey variety.

It is hard to get him to open up about it, maybe tomorrow, because pressuring him for his take on it never goes well,

Years ago I delved deeply into the occult myself but there was a line I wouldn't cross.

Personally, if a lot of it starts to sound like bad fantasy novels ... that's because it basically is. However, at the same time, I would admit that when someone believes something strongly enough ... that can become their personal reality.

LaVey's original book, The Satanic Bible, has some interesting and useful ideas and was certainly something of a landmark at the time, but, really the old carney was a carney ... and a whole lot of it is just hooey.

The Church of Satan is basically a money-making scheme for a few folks at the top of the pecking order and a few more long-time adherents who have invested too much to turn back.

Lucien Greaves' (or Doug Mesner, as he used to be called) outfit is a lot more ... modern, intellectual, and is actually trying to do a lot of good things, in my opinion. We'll see how long the caprice of it all continues to interest them.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Lucien Greaves' (or Doug Mesner, as he used to be called) outfit is a lot more ... modern, intellectual

And not at all spiritual/supernatural/supranatrual?

I confess I'm having a bit of difficulty in sorting out the difference between super natural, which I equate with spiritual and supranatural as the Lavey group uses the terms. For LaVey might supranatural include something like neurolinguistics or applied psychology or does it go beyond that? Or is it both the former and the latter?

Strictly on the topic of this thread LaVey is quoted as saying:

The usual assumption is that the Satanic ceremony or service is always called a black mass. A black mass is not the magical ceremony practiced by Satanists. The Satanist would only employ the use of a black mass as a form of psychodrama. Furthermore, a black mass does not necessarily imply that the performers of such are Satanists. A black mass is essentially a parody of the religious service of the Roman Catholic Church, but can be loosely applied to a satire on any religious ceremony.

And the article goes on to say:

LaVey further explained his stance in an interview with Occult America:[30] He did not, however, go along with the dramatization of evil as performed in the original Black Mass. “Those,” he explained, “were psychodramas at a time when people needed them. They had to express their opposition, their rebellion against an established church. Our rituals are suitably modified to express the needs of our particular era."

LaVey went on to call it a redundancy; the equivalent of 'flogging a dead horse.' (See: The Satanic Bible. The 'dead horse' in this case being conservative Christian dogma). Historical Black Masses (as described by the fearfully imaginative) would often involve candles made of baby-fat and the Osculum Infame (kissing the Devil's arse). Both are entirely in opposition to Church of Satan edicts - not bending a knee in acquiescence to any god or devil, and not harming children - and would therefore be both contradictory and hypocritical for a Satanist.

Source

I take all that to mean that Lavey wouldn't have really approved of the event in Oklahoma?

William:

I don't think the LaVeyans or Greaves group would accept a term like "supernatural." They would say that it doesn't exist.

Both groups emphasize dealing with the real world as it actually is with the best scientific understanding available to us.

Lucien's group is working toward certain goals, and one of those is challenging the entrenched Christian hegemony in this country, which all too often allows the religious beliefs (or absence of same) of others to be trampled on. Conducting a "black mass" would be more of a political statement than a purely religious one perhaps but in the interest of getting folks to see what it feels like to have the objectionable rituals of another religion shoved in one's face, constantly.

Both groups could be generally classified I think as atheistic materialists and empiricists.

Gods, devils, demons, spirits ... these things do not exist. If they are used at all, they are used consciously for intentional purposes ... LaVey's "psychodrama" or Lucien's "public statements."

At least, that would be my take on it.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Satanism is all that that turns us away from our true selves. Television, music, everything today is about materialism, almighty dollar, lust and selfishness. The stink of it is putrid but since we born into it, we have got use to the smell. Their black mass will be more of the same.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"

Hardly the fluffy bunny that Jesus seemed to be talking about, huh?

God is Love ... but He created ebola, bot flies and childhood cancers just for fun?

Where do I sign up?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"Who has commanded and it came to pass, unless the Lord has ordained it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"

Awesome, Well done God!

Thanks a bunch

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: FlyersFan

Black Mass Planned for Oklahoma City Sept 2014

I'll be there with my public access cable TV crew to document the whole thing. Complete with interviews, profiles and the actual ceremony.

I expect there to be a huge protest demonstration by OK Christians and more than likely gunplay and bloody violence. A documentary filmakers dream come true and I will be needing a few PAs if you're available. However there will probably be more "news" people there than ticketholders.

This should be bigger than Burning Man.

LOL. I predict some peaceful protestors and some strongly worded letters to the editor.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Zoroastrianism and Satanism aren't even close. Borrowing from them?
Doesn't sound very legit to me. But I could be wrong ....

The Lord doesn't bring the light, his adherents do when they are burning/drowning women and girls and anyone else who gets on the wrong side of them, burning books, burning places of association for groups they disagree with.

Christianity is the oldest and most repressive, dangerous and hypocritical dictatorship on earth.

Now, if I can give my own interpretation on The Satanic Temple's activities:

I find the political statement of putting a sculpture of Baphomet (not Satan, btw) anywhere is ludicrous.

Conducting a Black Mass for political reasons is simply more foolishness.

I understand the intent of both actions, and perhaps, this kind of thing is needed to shake our society out of its current trend promoting Christianity ... but ...

Again, I say follow your own Book. These Satanists are also atheists by their own testimony. There is no Satan or Baphomet. Mimicking the Christians' actions is ultimately foolish.

Though I like Lucien; he's a talented speaker ... I think they're off-base. My opinion only.