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A nice demonstration that chemtrail = H2O

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posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: mrthumpy
That's for a halo though, not a sun dog

a reply to: Rob48



That is a good point. Sun angle at the time I took the photo (approx 8.40am BST) would have been approximately 30 degrees.

Based on the illustrations on that page, the theoretical sun dog position would be maybe two or three degrees further from the sun. Given the pretty large uncertainties in placing the ruler at either end (you'll see I measured right to the innermost visible point of red light, rather than the centre of the sun dog) I still think it's a pretty good demonstration that this contrail is ice, unless anybody else can come up with an alternative chemical and do the maths...


Agreed. Important to get this stuff right though given the believers propensity to mangle science.




posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: myselfaswell

Really? Come on then, name and shame these compounds that can create parhelia.

Give me refractive indices, give me PROOF. "Maybe" doesn't cut it. "Maybe" the contrails are big strings of cotton wool dragged by prancing unicorns.


It's well known that ice crystals attach themselves to aerosols, aerosols can be anything that happens to be around, you'll probably get even more noticeable sundogs too.
All contrails are chemical, something to bear in mind. As for your pictures, there's no telling, since there is no way of telling exactly what they are.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 08:57 AM
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originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: myselfaswell

Really? Come on then, name and shame these compounds that can create parhelia.

Give me refractive indices, give me PROOF. "Maybe" doesn't cut it. "Maybe" the contrails are big strings of cotton wool dragged by prancing unicorns.


It's well known that ice crystals attach themselves to aerosols, aerosols can be anything that happens to be around, you'll probably get even more noticeable sundogs too.
All contrails are chemical, something to bear in mind. As for your pictures, there's no telling, since there is no way of telling exactly what they are.


Ice is a bit more fussy than that

pubs.rsc.org...


In summary, only a small proportion of aerosol particles can
serve as IN at all temperatures

edit on 2-7-2014 by mrthumpy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: smurfy


All contrails are chemical, something to bear in mind.
Some pollution, yes ."Chemtrail" conspiracy 'theory', no.



As for your pictures, there's no telling, since there is no way of telling exactly what they are.
One thing you can be sure of is that the visible trail is ice. I know you've seen this graphic before.

You don't need to argue that there is a little pollution in exhaust. No one disputes that.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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a reply to: Rob48




chemtrail = H2O


Would you drink the water expelled by a jet engine?



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:04 AM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: Rob48




chemtrail = H2O


Would you drink the water expelled by a jet engine?


If it was evaporated, condensed again, and diluted by a factor of 30,000, then sure I would


Do you realise what proportion of the water in a visible (i.e. "persistent") contrail actually comes from the engine? Hardly any. The vast majority of it simply comes from the atmosphere.


The water vapour from the exhaust gases alone is not enough to form a contrail. Knollenberg (1972) gives a breakdown of typical components of aircraft exhaust gases, with around 1.37 kg of water vapour released per kg of fuel burned. The study found that exhaust gases contained around 1.7 g of water vapour for every metre flown, but found actual persistent contrails to contain at least 30,000 times that level (20,700-41,200 g per metre). This means that the overwhelming majority of the water in contrails comes from the atmosphere, with only around 1 in every 30,000 molecules originating from the burning of the fuel.


Source here, and Knollenberg's paper is here.

So yeah, if you wanted to collect some contrail ice and melt it down for me, sure I would happily drink a glassful of it. Only about 0.003% of the water is actually combustion product. The rest is ordinary cloud water.
edit on 3-7-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: Rob48




chemtrail = H2O


Would you drink the water expelled by a jet engine?

I certainly would not.

I wouldn't drink water from car exhaust either but it's still water.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:07 AM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Here .... I updated your pic for you.




posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: Rob48




chemtrail = H2O


Would you drink the water expelled by a jet engine?

I certainly would not.

I wouldn't drink water from car exhaust either but it's still water.


Pfft. I've drunk water distilled from urine. Water is water, once you exaporate and condense it.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: Rob48




chemtrail = H2O


Would you drink the water expelled by a jet engine?

I certainly would not.



I wouldn't drink water from car exhaust either but it's still water.


Pfft. I've drunk water distilled from urine. Water is water, once you exaporate and condense it.


Right. I meant straight from the engine.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:24 AM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Here .... I updated your pic for you.


Doctored evidence? I wish I could say I haven't seen that from your side before. Don't you?

(Inside joke) Et tu Stainus?

ETA: What would sulfuric acid spray look like if it were to be done?
edit on 3-7-2014 by DenyObfuscation because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:44 AM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Carpe diem brother !

Here's the un-doctored version.

Aurora Geoengineering Cost Analysis Report






posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Here .... I updated your pic for you.



ETA: What would sulfuric acid spray look like if it were to be done?


Not only that, but where would you keep it all?

If a visible contrail containson average about 30kg of water per metre, then to make up a significant portion of that with H₂SO₄ then you've got to be talking, what, 1.5 kg per metre even to create a 5% solution.

Now, an airliner covers about 850km in an hour at cruising height.

To lay your H₂SO₄ spray at 5% concentration for one hour, you'd need 1,275 tonnes of sulphuric acid.

Where are they keeping that? A Boeing 747 has a maximum take-off weight of about 400 tonnes. It's fuel capacity is about 176 tonnes. Even if it had no fuel on board (!), only sulphuric acid, it could only spray for about eight minutes!


MagicWand: what does that report have to do with "chemtrails"? It is a theoretical cost analysis report on GEOENGINEERING using specialist aircraft,. Not the same thing at all as some supposed conspiracy involving "spraying". And notice the design rate mooted there? 0.03kg per metre. You are not going to be able to see that.

edit on 3-7-2014 by Rob48 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: MagicWand67

Did you catch the bit where it says..


This study examines an altitude range identified for geo-engineering operations from about 19.8 km (60kft) to 30.5 km (100kft)


It's in the paragraph leading up to that diagram.

Just how many jets can fly above 60,000 feet?



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 08:16 AM
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originally posted by: MagicWand67
a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Carpe diem brother !

Here's the un-doctored version.

Aurora Geoengineering Cost Analysis Report





So are you saying this is in operation right now, or do you understand the language used and you are just showing this for demonstrative purposes?



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: network dude

But the graphic shows a nozzle! Never mind that's what makes the engines JETS.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Just trying to keep folks honest. there are way to many lies out there already.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: network dude

So am I. Not sure why he posted that graphic. It seemed to be to show a 'nozzle'. Can't see any other reason for it.

Like I said, that's just a normal part on a jet engine.



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 09:00 AM
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a reply to: DenyObfuscation

My question was about the introduction of sulfuric acid, as his paper states. It also uses the verbiage of it being proposed, and not something that is in operation. We had that confusion earlier with the nano-dust thing. (I'm still not sure if that's cleared up)



posted on Jul, 3 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: MagicWand67

Thanks for reminding me about that study. I've been meaning to look into it.

To achieve the proper particle size, the vapor must be emitted at
a rate that prevents particles from coagulating into large particles. Analysis7 has shown that a release rate of 0.1 to 0.003 kilograms per meter travelled by the aircraft limits coagulation.

... For maximum cooling impact, the particulate payloads are best placed near the equator.
This study assumes that the payload is released within latitudes 30°N and 30°S,

... Regional operations allow the dispersal leg length to be dictated by the desired release rate of 0.03 kg/m flown.
Page 8 of pdf www.keith.seas.harvard.edu...




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