SCI/TECH: Cannabis linked to mental illness risk

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
You've got to remember you live in the nations capital which has a wealth of supply whereas up here on the edge of civilisation our options are limited to what we can get.

You are probably correct there.

Originally posted by apc

How many potheads are there that smoke when they get stressed out? Almost all of them. This is bad. This is very very bad. This causes long term problems with this little thing our brain does called 'coping.' I wont bother going on with other reasons... I could fill my own thread page.

Yes many do...But how many indulge in similarly destructive behaviours no matter what the source? Some over eat, some over medicate, etc, etc.

As far as ignorance... uhm... I used to smoke all day and all night. I dont smoke at all anymore. I like my brain. And now that I dont smoke anymore, it likes me too. It's nice being able to remember what I was doing 15minutes ago.
So much for ignorance.

Here is where problems arise...Just becaue a certain substance affected you in a certain way, does not make that the case for every person on the planet. Perhaps you are the minority, and most people can handle the loss of their short term memory.

I am in no way trying to say that ingesting cannabis has no effect on the physical or mental make up of a physical entity. What I will say though is, there are plenty of people that can handle cannabis, just like there are plenty of people who can handle alcohol, without the negativve side effects.

Just because cannabis affected you in a particular way does not mean that that is the case for everyone. If this is in fact the case, then you can not advocate the ban of a substance based on your limited subjective experience.

Originally posted by frayed1
If there were longer lasting effects of exposure during the 'formative years', I would think it would relate more to the psychological aspect of using pot as an escape from unhappiness or boredom, and becoming dependant on it as the only way to enjoy life.

You are probably correct there, but you have to admit that there must be some kind of side effects of altering the brains chemistry during one of it's most formative periods, no?

[edit on 16-9-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

Cannabis is NOT pschologically addictive, it is habitually addictive as it becomes part of a routine. You do not go cold turkey like other psychologically addictive drugs.
I can stop whenever I want & have several times, whereas I can't say the same about nicotine which of course is addictive.
Also does anybody else notice that some people are using the website slogan "Deny Ignorance" to backup there own particular version of ignorance & is kind of demeaning the slogan itself?

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
Cannabis is NOT pschologically addictive, it is habitually addictive as it becomes part of a routine. You do not go cold turkey like other psychologically addictive drugs.

Perhpaps this is just semantics...but what is the difference between mentally addictive, and "habitually addictive"? Perhaps I am missing the point, but it would seem to me, as if the both go hand in hand, if they are not in fact the same condition.

I can stop whenever I want & have several times, whereas I can't say the same about nicotine which of course is addictive.

I do not mean to split hairs here, but...IMHO, Addiction is addiction. Whether or not it's physical or mental is neither here, nor there.

Also does anybody else notice that some people are using the website slogan "Deny Ignorance" to backup there own particular version of ignorance & is kind of demeaning the slogan itself?

Yes it has been noticed, and as a matter of fact the word ignorance is not thrown around nearly as much as it used to be.

As far as ignorance... uhm... I used to smoke all day and all night. I dont smoke at all anymore. I like my brain. And now that I dont smoke anymore, it likes me too. It's nice being able to remember what I was doing 15minutes ago.

The key is moderation. Of course if you used to smoke it all day and all night you would run into problems. If you drink alcohol day and night it would be even worse. People drink alcohol to avoid and dull their problems all the time and yet it is perfectly legal. I wouldn't say the problem is the drug itself, but in the abuse of it.

It has been proven that high levels of stress is more detrimental to your health than smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. I see no problem with using a relatively harmless drug like marijuana to alleviate the pains of a stressful day at the office. Drinking one glass of wine a day is actually considered healthy, but drinking the whole bottle creates toxicity in the body that outweighs the benefits that imbibing one glass achieves.

You are dealing merely with the extremes. You went from a heavy user, to complete abstinence, and it seems to have worked out for the best...for you. Congratulations, bravo, well done. Just don't try and preach, that because you used to smoke pot on a daily basis, and now you don't, that we should all recognize it is the evil cop-out for coping with our problems.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, and again, and again.

The key is moderation!

And that goes for more than just smoking pot!

peace

[edit on 16-9-2005 by StickyG]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

I can stop whenever I want & have several times, whereas I can't say the same about nicotine which of course is addictive.

I do not mean to split hairs here, but...IMHO, Addiction is addiction. Whether or not it's physical or mental is neither here, nor there.

If your intention is to overcome the addiction, you need to know the diff because you 'fight' different addictions with different methods......If for instance you are a heroin addict and you are separated from your source, or even if you really want to quit, things can get ugly....you have a severe physical withdrawal, your body is actually dependant on the drug. You are so sick you may need to be hospitalized. Kicking that much of a physical addiction usually requires medical help.

If you are a pot user, you might be in a bad mood, feel restless and sorry for yourself a while, but no throwing up, no sweats, no diarrhea. No need for medical help. Finding another 'habitual' behavior, like exercise or meditation, to substitute could be enough help.

Nicotine addicts usually need a little from column A and a little from column B.

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Perhpaps this is just semantics...but what is the difference between mentally addictive, and "habitually addictive"? Perhaps I am missing the point, but it would seem to me, as if the both go hand in hand, if they are not in fact the same condition.

There is difference between the 2 IMO although I would agree with you that if you generalised it then habitual addiction would come under psychological addiction but there is a distinction IMO.
I see psychological addiction in reference to drugs as something that makes you completely dependant on it & is often the primary need to the person addicted. Coke, Heroin, Crack etc..
Habitually addicted to me is something that has been part of a daily routine that makes you addicted to it as a programmed routine. Cannabis, Ecstasy.
People do find it hard to break habits but I found I was more addicted to nicotine than I was to the cannabis.
The point I was trying to make is that the anti drug brigade can try & put cannabis in the same addiction bracket as coke & heroin but in truth there is a big difference between the different types of addiction.
I agree that at the end of the day addiction is addiction & everything in moderation is good but i'm sure alcohol & nicotine are worse for our health than cannabis. At least cannabis can be used for medicinal purposes.

Originally posted by frayed1

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin

I can stop whenever I want & have several times, whereas I can't say the same about nicotine which of course is addictive.

I do not mean to split hairs here, but...IMHO, Addiction is addiction. Whether or not it's physical or mental is neither here, nor there.

If your intention is to overcome the addiction, you need to know the diff because you 'fight' different addictions with different methods......If for instance you are a heroin addict and you are separated from your source, or even if you really want to quit, things can get ugly....you have a severe physical withdrawal, your body is actually dependant on the drug. You are so sick you may need to be hospitalized. Kicking that much of a physical addiction usually requires medical help.

If you are a pot user, you might be in a bad mood, feel restless and sorry for yourself a while, but no throwing up, no sweats, no diarrhea. No need for medical help. Finding another 'habitual' behavior, like exercise or meditation, to substitute could be enough help.

Nicotine addicts usually need a little from column A and a little from column B.

Damn you beat me to it, well put though.

"Nicotine addicts usually need a little from column A and a little from column B.
"


What is the cure for Avarice?

I have not posted very often on any of these sites due to my lack of knowledge on many of the subjects, but, I would like to add something that no one seems to have done studies on, as far as I know.

I have always weighed between 125-150 lbs. I had recently divorced and through mental stress had lost down to 101 lbs. in less than 3 months. I couldn't eat anything that didn't make me feel sick and I couldn't sleep. I went to the doctor and he said it was normal and I would soon recover, for me to just give it time. I was surprised he didn't think anything was wrong.

*Mod Edit*

I hope I didn't offend anyone and I hope I haven't caused myself to have a black mark against me. I just wanted to bring into light that cannibus can be medicinally healthy for people.


Mod Edit: Please see my post below

[edit on 9/18/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
Yes many do...But how many indulge in similarly destructive behaviours no matter what the source? Some over eat, some over medicate, etc, etc.

And some kill people in car wrecks... sorry to be dramatic, but stoners do drive. Poorly.

Here is where problems arise...Just becaue a certain substance affected you in a certain way, does not make that the case for every person on the planet. Perhaps you are the minority, and most people can handle the loss of their short term memory.

I agree, not everyone who smokes marijuana experiences the negative effects. However, in my experience it is the vast majority. Seeing people calling everyone they can possibly think of to get a sack. Trying to get 'fronts' because they cant afford it (because they've spent all their money on weed). Slacking on their daily responsibilities because they cant find anything to smoke and are getting desperate. For the majority, by my observations, it really does mess up the user's priorities.

I am in no way trying to say that ingesting cannabis has no effect on the physical or mental make up of a physical entity. What I will say though is, there are plenty of people that can handle cannabis, just like there are plenty of people who can handle alcohol, without the negativve side effects.

The negative effects from one night of alcohol use are gone after a day. Delta-9-THC has a half-life of about 3 days.

Just because cannabis affected you in a particular way does not mean that that is the case for everyone. If this is in fact the case, then you can not advocate the ban of a substance based on your limited subjective experience.

I advocate the ban of recreational use because there is this overwhelming portion of the userbase that experience long term negative side effects. These side effects can endanger others and disrupt society.

starr: you are a prime example of the many wonderful medicinal uses of cannabis. One of the best, as you experienced, is improved appetite. Great for cancer patients, too. But, just like amphetamines, recreational use carries too many negative consequences to allow.

Originally posted by bodebliss
"Nicotine addicts usually need a little from column A and a little from column B.
"


What is the cure for Avarice?

Abject poverty is one treatment, but only death cures.

Originally posted by apc
And some kill people in car wrecks... sorry to be dramatic, but stoners do drive. Poorly.

You missed my point, which was-most people engage in unhealthy behaviour when they are stressed, it is not just stoners...Some turn to food, some ciggarettes, some sex. As for your driving comment, more people crash cars when drunk than when high. Usually stoners just drive really slow, which does not increase ones chance of an accident.

I agree, not everyone who smokes marijuana experiences the negative effects. However, in my experience it is the vast majority. Seeing people calling everyone they can possibly think of to get a sack. Trying to get 'fronts' because they cant afford it (because they've spent all their money on weed). Slacking on their daily responsibilities because they cant find anything to smoke and are getting desperate. For the majority, by my observations, it really does mess up the user's priorities.

Once again this depends on the person. I am from California where I would wager we have more "addicts" than anywhere else in the country. They are not all poor, they are not all homeless, they are not all jobless. Some of the most "successful" people I know are raging drug "addicts" and/or "alchoholics". How many people compulsively shop, and end up in ruins? Should we ban QVC as well?

The negative effects from one night of alcohol use are gone after a day. Delta-9-THC has a half-life of about 3 days.

Your point would be? Why is it that when discussing Cannabis people always compare it to alchohol? I'll tell you why. It is a lingering racial prejudice that you are not even fully aware of.

I advocate the ban of recreational use because there is this overwhelming portion of the userbase that experience long term negative side effects. These side effects can endanger others and disrupt society.

Well good for you...I on the other hand do not care much about society, nor do I need you to look out for my protection, thank you very much. Besides give me some statistics on the number of people injured, for whatever reason, that can be directly linked to cannabis.

Besides the "danger and disruption" argument being complete nonsense...What are all of these supposed side effects that you keep referring to (other than behavioural patterns that are linked to ALL addictions)? Where do you get this stuff from, I mean is there actually a source? Or are you just speaking from experience, and D.A.R.E classes?

To address two of your points:

The concept of an amotivational syndrome first appeared in the late 1960s, as marijuana use was increasing among American youth. In the years since, despite the absence of an agreed-upon definition of the concept, numerous researchers have attempted to verify its occurrence.

Large-scale studies of high school students have generally found no difference in grade-point averages between marijuana users and non-users. One study found lower grades among students reported to be daily users of marijuana, but the authors failed to identify a causal relationship and concluded that both phenomena were part of a complex of inter-related social and emotional problems.

In one longitudinal study of college students, after controlling for other factors, marijuana users were found to have higher grades than non-users and to be equally as likely to successfully complete their educations. Another study found that marijuana users in college scored higher than non-users on standardized "achievement values" scales.

Field studies conducted in Jamaica, Costa Rica and Greece also found no evidence of an amotivational syndrome among marijuana-using populations.

In these samples of working-class males, the educational and employment records of marijuana users were, for the most part, similar to those of non-users. In fact, in Jamaica, marijuana was often smoked during working hours as an aid to productivity. The results of laboratory studies have been nearly as consistent.

In one study lasting 94 days, marijuana had no significant impact on learning, performance or motivation.

In another 31-day study, subjects given marijuana worked more hours than controls and turned in an equal number of tokens for cash at the study's completion.

However, in a Canadian study that required subjects in the marijuana group to consume unusually high doses, some reduction in work efficency was noted in the days following intoxication.

Undoubtedly, when marijuana is used in a way that produces near-constant intoxication, other activities and responsibilities are likely to be neglected.

However, the weight of scientific evidence suggests that there is nothing in the pharmacological properties of cannabis to alter people's attitudes, values, or abilities regarding work.

Driving-
In high doses, marijuana probably produces driving impairment in most people. However, there is no evidence that marijuana, in current consumption patterns, contributes substantially to the rate of vehicular accidents in America.

A number of studies have looked for evidence of drugs in the blood or urine of drivers involved in fatal crashes. All have found alcohol present in 50 percent or more. Marijuana has been found much less often. Furthermore, in the majority of cases where marijuana has been detected, alcohol has been detected as well.

For example, a recent study sponsored by the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) involving analysis of nearly 2000 fatal accident cases, found 6.7 percent of drivers positive for marijuana. In more than two-thirds of those, alcohol was present and may have been the primary contributor to the fatal outcome


www.drugtext.org...

But, just like amphetamines, recreational use carries too many negative consequences to allow.

Then tell me why the US millitary has given Amphetamines to it's fighter pilots for years now, with no real problems. As a matter of fact recreational Ampetamine use is probably just as harmless as recreational cannabis use. Not trying to be rude with this post or anything, I just really hate it when people want to limit my behaviour for no real reason.

[edit on 17-9-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

"Then tell me why the US millitary has given Amphetamines to it's fighter pilots for years now, "

to fight the effects of a 9 G turn maybe

what scientific study can anyone show that accually states the harmfull mental effects of marijuanna? i bet none, why? because you cant test this on rats. my moms a behavioral scientist and all she can do is shake her head, and ask for a toke every now and then. only now can scientists start studying the old school smokers to see what life is like after 25 yrs of pot, only there is no data to put this against to compare when they first started.
i have a friend that smokes pot and oil, all day everyday, that guy can pull information out of his head faster than a p3 can read of a hard drive. i smoke pot more than cigarettes, cause smokes tastes like crap, my short term memory is crap, however i smoke weed EVERY time i get behind the wheel, and EVERY day before a put my pouch on to start my work (which is very physically demading, and i feel helps keep my lungs clean). before i started smoking pot, all i cared about is how my hair looked, if my shirt matched my pants, and what kind of slack-ass pointless job i can get to feel like i belong with all the other middle-men. i am so happy to say that that time is long gone. smoking pot is what made me first start seeking truth, before that i was throwing darts at a picture of bin laden. as for me being an addict, i make over 60k canadian a year, i don't notice the cost because i have zero respect for money, i practically give it away anyhow. do i get the "jones" when im out, well... i cant remember in the last 3-4 years if ever was out. even when ive tryed to force myself out of supply so that i wouldn't smoke it at work (burns me out, drywalls pretty heavy) someone shows up with a spliffy.

*Mod Edit*

maybe i don't really understand the meaning of psycotic or what was meant by mental illness, but if not careing about the things that a "normal" social person would care about makes me a psyco mental case, then i'd say we've got a long way to go before we understand the brain, and maybe we should give it a little more attention before we go classifying people like me, paul bernardo, or adolf hitler all in the same category, actually im a little offended

Mod Edit: Please see my post below

[edit on 9/18/05 by FredT]

Originally posted by bodebliss
to fight the effects of a 9 G turn maybe

I think you just answered your own question. It's being used as a CONTROLLED MEDICATION. It's not being used to get all "F-ed Up" and party on the weekends, and especially not daily.

Pot users are most likely self medicating a pre-existing mental condition, and that argument about illegal drug usage (i.e. what came first the chicken or the egg?) has been going around for decades. Considering the alternatives like Prozac and other SSRI's, who can blame them? That and we fall way short on treating mental illness in the US.

Big pharma can't get the THC patent, the Fed sees pot as destructive to society, which means don't count on a dopamania Cheech and Chong utopia anytime soon. Move to Jamaica...



[edit on 17-9-2005 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by apc
It's being used as a CONTROLLED MEDICATION.

I trust an individual being in CONTROL of what he consumes more than I trust government being in CONTROL.

It's not being used to get all "F-ed Up" and party on the weekends, and especially not daily.

Maybe if you got "F-ed Up" once in awhile you wouldnt be so hell bent on using the power of govenment to impose your personal beliefs on everyone else.

Originally posted by apc

Originally posted by bodebliss
to fight the effects of a 9 G turn maybe

I think you just answered your own question. It's being used as a CONTROLLED MEDICATION. It's not being used to get all "F-ed Up" and party on the weekends, and especially not daily.

LOL, what? You got something against people having a good time?

Actualy makes sence from the things you post on this site....

But it also shows again your ignorance of pot smokers.

*Mod Edit*

"[Marihuana’s] bodily reactions usually include muscular-trembling, increased heartbeat, accelerated pulse and a ringing in the ears. Often the user feels hot in the head, becomes dizzy and has sensations of cold in the hands and feet. Later he experiences muscular contractions, constrictions in the chest and dilation of the eye pupils. These effects lead to either vomiting or stupefaction, followed by restless sleep filled with bizarre kaleidoscopic visions." THE CHRISTIAN CENTURY - June 29, 1938



You would probably be believing this apc, no?

Mod Edit: Please see my note below, Thanks

[edit on 9/18/05 by FredT]

Seeing as it was a survey lets look at a real scientific study. Here is one from BBC news that shows cannabis may help the mentally ill.

Chemicals found in cannabis could be used to relieve symptoms of severe mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder, researchers have claimed.

source> news.bbc.co.uk...

So what to believe? A biased survey or actual scientific research?? Looks like a hard question if you ask me.

The truth is we don't know enough about cannabis to say if it is beneficial or harmful to us yet. We need to study it more. The only problem which prevents us from studying it more in depth is the fact that it is illegal.

While this is certainly an intersting topic and worth of debate here on ATS I need to remind all participants that discussion of drug use is not allowed in the forums per the Terms and Conditions of the site;

16.) Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden.

So on that note, please do not interject your personal use or those you know within the context of this debate.

Thanks
FredT

[edit on 9/18/05 by FredT]