It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ukraine attacks with chemicals, destroys schools and hospitals and kills unarmed citizens (News)

page: 9
79
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 08:18 PM
link   
***ATTENTION***

Get back on the topic at hand, and stay there, not each other. This is a heated topic, but it's not about each other, so let's keep it civil and on topic.

Do not reply to this message.




posted on Jul, 4 2014 @ 08:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: Ploutonas

Reported him for what? Ive read his replies to you. he hasnt brokenTnC far as i have seen. all he has done is call you out on a few things.

ALso bombing villages(IF THEY ARE FULL OF ENEMIES in official war and NOT FULL OF CIVILIANS) is not a war crime.

Phosphorous marking rounds are not listed as chemical weapons useage either if used on military targets and not deliberatly shot at civilians.

If A school is taken over by enemy troops and no civilians in them that too is not a war crime.



You know what I find to be hypocritical?

When Gaddafi and Assad were bombing areas taken over by foreign terrorists, the western MSM and many people here were claiming that they were bombing civilians and committing genocide. But when Ukrainian military units bomb Ukrainian cities and villages to fight Ukrainian rebels, the rebels are at fault because they are assumed to be where the artillery was aiming.

Ya know, I watched a documentary once on war crimes by the Serbians, and they were showing video of a village in Bosnia that some Serbs would shell every day for weeks (if not months), just random shelling anywhere in the village just to terrorize the locals because they didn't feel like going into the village. This was considered to be a war crime.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:22 AM
link   
I've come back to look at this thread a few times. it never seems to stay on the topic of the OP, but drifts into Serbians and Syria, Greece and Germany.

As far as I can see, there has been no non-Russian evidence presented for the claim of the OP. I find that highly suspect. There has also been no evidence that Ukraine is a Nazi country.

I have been asked if there are any non-Russian reporters in Ukraine. When I provided statements from organizations showing that there were, but they were being captured and killed by pro-Russian forces, the subject was changed again.

I don't mind going from topic to topic, but it certainly looks as though the OP has been debunked. If anyone cares to rescue this thread, I'd be glad to participate again.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:48 AM
link   
I wonder what is Putin waiting for. If it is winter to cut off gas to Ukraine and hope to put pressure on Kiev, then he should note that Thieves of Kiev have stored lots of stolen gas over the years and might be able to survive the winter.

At least Moscow should give in good numbers the anti-heavy weapons tools to the pro-Russia segment. Anti-tank rockets like Kornets, anti-aircraft MANPADs etc. should come real handy to negate the advantages that Junta forces have.

Lots of human rights violations are taking place against the pro-Russian people. These should not be overlooked.

Ukraine as a nation does not exist anymore and better it splits peacefully for the good of both sides.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 01:38 AM
link   
a reply to: charles1952

If you had any experience with international law, then you would know that international law, like any other law based on social justice, is defined by precedents set from previous instances and judgements.

Why is Serbia brought up? Because Serbians were charged with war crimes in the International Criminal Court. The crimes that they were charged with were well documented. These crimes are very similar to the crimes being carried out in Ukraine right now.

Why is Syria and Libya brought up? Because western politicians and the western media were accusing Gaddafi and Assad's regimes of committing war crimes, to the point of invoking the Right to Protect Doctrine. This was possible because of what came out of Serbia.

These precedents can potentially give Russia the customary authority to invoke R2P for eastern Ukraine.

As for your comments about how only Russia is documenting these instances so they are false, well good thing nobody takes your opinion seriously. Because The Hague will take Russian documentation and evidence seriously if and when Russia delivers Ukrainian war criminals for trial in the ICC.

Why would the west document such crimes? They propped up these puppets, just like they've propped up ultraviolent oligarch dictatorships in the past.

It is quite pathetic for you to claim that first hand evidence of bombed villages and civilians reduced to hamburger is propaganda because the Russians (and the DPR and the LPR and NGOs) are documenting it. You clearly have no respect for the victims of what is clearly collective punishment against a population that Kiev's own prime minister referred to as "evil subhumans who need to be eliminated".



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 01:56 AM
link   
Confidential document on Ukraine by the RAND Corporation leaked. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko follows the action plan proposed by RAND analysts.

And WOW, what a plan

This is a pure form of fascism



This Memorandum on the “advisable course of action” automatically means that the peace plan confirmed by Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko is slated to fail.

The document provides three stages for the conduct of a military operation in eastern Ukraine.

The first stage implies total isolation of the region considering that all local citizens are terrorists or sympathizers.

The Region should be encircled with troops and sealed off entirely from any flow of goods and persons. Broadcasting services, Internet connection, telephone and mobile communications in the region shall be shut down.

The second stage is named Mop-up.

Ground assaults shall be preceded by air strikes against the strategic facilities. The use of non-conventional arms is allowed.

The document also provides for internment camps outside the cleared settlements. People featuring traces of combat engagement shall be tried in court for terrorism.

During the third stage Back to Normal power supplies and communications shall be restored. The borders shall be strengthened to avoid possible provocations. All the refugees should be checked for possible support for separatists in internment camps.

Special focus shall be made on information security. All foreign media shall be blocked there.


www.globalresearch.ca... 795

rt.com...






edit on 5-7-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 03:08 AM
link   
Come on, I'm still waiting for something serious.


You clearly have no respect for the victims of what is clearly collective punishment against a population that Kiev's own prime minister referred to as "evil subhumans who need to be eliminated".
Wonderful quote, EXCEPT HE DIDN'T SAY THAT.

Even Pravda reported:

"They lost their lives because they defended men and women, children and the elderly who found themselves in a situation facing a threat to be killed by invaders and sponsored by subhumans," he said. "First, we will commemorate the heroes by wiping out those who killed them and then by cleaning our land from the evil," Yatsenyuk's message posted on the website of the Ukrainian Embassy in the USA said.


And those two pages from a "RAND memorandum?" Here's what your RT link said:

Even if the leaked plan of ‘handling’ Ukrainian crisis was not produced by the RAND corporation, events on the ground very much resemble the shocking points of the memo and the “guidelines for genocide” exported by the US, Don Debar from CPR News told RT.

A memorandum, recently leaked to online media, suggested surrounding eastern Ukrainian cities and placing citizens in internment camps. The document bears a logo of RAND corporation think-tank, but the company denies producing such a report.

While the authenticity of the document could not be independently verified . . .



It is quite pathetic for you to claim that first hand evidence of bombed villages and civilians reduced to hamburger is propaganda because the Russians (and the DPR and the LPR and NGOs) are documenting it.
Funny, I have never denied that people are being killed.

I have to confess I'm confused. Russian propaganda is usually much more polished than this. We're seeing joke propaganda. it almost makes me think that Russia wants us to see through it. I wonder what the motive is? Maybe it's geared to Ukrainians to confuse them. I don't think it's having any effect on Americans.

If you have any influence with Russian officials, ask them for a better product.

Oh, and Global Defence in Greece? There the people that have the following headlines on some of their articles within the last two weeks:


The Fourth of July: celebrating imperialism and militarism

Thomas Jefferson America's founding sociopath

America's holy crusade against the Muslim world

Vladimir Putin: "The West is turning the planet into a global barracks"

The US war against Russia is already underway.

Kiev is starting a war to avoid a revolution

Can Putin's diplomacy prevail over Washington's coercion

America cleanses southeastern Ukraine of ethnic Russians

Obama exploits Iraq crisis as pretext for war against Syria


Perhaps now you know why almost nobody here is taking these claims seriously. It is truly shoddy work by the masters in Moscow.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 03:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: Ploutonas
using chemicals is a crime of war... Bombarding villages, schools and hospitals is crime war also. Where is the mistake with it?


I think you meant its a war crime when committed by any country aligned with the West. Apparently the same standard does not apply in Syria.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 03:51 AM
link   
a reply to: cosmonova

RT and Global research?

Have any credible sources that have not been caught manipulating information?



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 04:08 AM
link   
a reply to: charles1952

First of all there is no harm in saying that we are seeing a civil war (and a nasty one) in Ukraine.

This civil war has two sides and the two sides are explicitly supported by two different outside parties.

There is a lot of propaganda around. The West has dominance over global media so one sides gets prominence in propaganda. This is where this issue ends.

Russia's problem is that it cannot take on the West single-handedly. Russia needs partnership (specifically in China). However Russian mistrust of China still persists and is hampering the relationship. The Chinese also need to step up. If Russia/China relationship grows strongly, it will counter-balance NATO.

Ukraine is a small player. It really does not matter. The Ukrainians are deluded that fighting NATO's battle will deliver their economy. Ukrainians are running towards disaster blindfolded. I see only death and destruction in Kiev. It may not come tomorrow but soon.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 04:16 AM
link   
a reply to: charles1952




I wonder what the motive is?


Motive...he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and now has to propaganda his way out of it.

Nothing new.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 04:54 AM
link   
a reply to: charles1952

Maybe you should try posting one post per person you're responding to instead of mashing three of us all together.

And what a stupid comment: "If you have any influence with Russian officials, ask them for a better product." Why would I have influence with Russian officials? I am a Canadian. I know Canadian officials. Maybe I'm one myself. Ever think of that?

Ever think that maybe some of us on this side of the world aren't completely insane fools that think that playing fascists on multiple global fronts against our geopolitical rivals could ever be construed as a logical plan of action?

Because it's not. It's completely insane. It is exactly how WWII started, back when the USA and Britain were backing the Nazis to fight the USSR. And you're insane too if you are claiming that fascists are the good guys as they slaughter innocent people as part of a western agenda to screw with Russia's economy. What a shocker it was when the Nazis, beholden in their own power handed to them, turned against their puppeteers- suddenly they were the bad guys.

You know what they say about repeating history and doom, don't you?
edit on 5-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: cosmonova

RT and Global research?

Have any credible sources that have not been caught manipulating information?



Credible?
You mean Fox, BBC, CNN? No, they are all extremely quiet and subtle while this cleansing continues in Ukraine.
Or do you mean EuromaidanPR twitter you used as a reference most of the time in another thread about Ukraine.


______beforeitsnews/politics/2014/07/ukrainian-president-uses-rand-corporation-plan-in-eastern-ukraine-2634472.html

www.sott.net...

newsvoice.se...

alternative-news-network.net...



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 05:23 AM
link   
a reply to: cosmonova

Your response contained a link from a source that has been ban, which is why (I am assuming) your post resulted with the free speech warning. If I remember right the link itself is the only part that causes the post to display the message.


Remove the link that is ban on this site and your post should display correctly. I am assuming its one of the 4 links at the bottom of your post.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 09:01 AM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stanislas



So has any of the Russian media actually go and talk to Ukraine soldiers about what is happening...No.


Hi tsurfer2000h, I am not sure if you are aware but Ukraine has denied access to the Russian media. The ones that do go in go in without passports and hide their identity.
Also, Russian and other journalist have also been detained and some even killed, yes?


An hour before he was kidnapped by pro-Russia forces, Simon Ostrovsky interviewed two Russian Cossacks in Kramatorsk. One man showed Simon his Russian passport, which was the first confirmation VICE has seen of Russians working with the separatists in eastern Ukraine.


Russian Cossack volunteers and they admit it, it does not give proof that Russian military is in Ukraine by the Kremlin's orders. The video is funny in a way because it is a video proving that its not the same guy that the MSN was using to say Russian troops were in the Ukraine.


Also know that Simon Otrovsky only embedded with them after he was kidnapped by pro Russian separatists, and who could blame him as nobody wants to go thru the terror of a kidnapping


Can we say the same for the Russian journalists, those that were threatened? It is still biased. You are not able to get me to believe that this is unbiased reporting. Because its not.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 11:12 AM
link   
a reply to: stanislas




Hi tsurfer2000h, I am not sure if you are aware but Ukraine has denied access to the Russian media. The ones that do go in go in without passports and hide their identity.
Also, Russian and other journalist have also been detained and some even killed, yes?


Actually it wouldn't matter as all Russian media is going to say whatever the government tells them to say, so you wouldn't see the reports anyway.

Yes they have at the hands of pro Russian separatists.



Russian Cossack volunteers and they admit it, it does not give proof that Russian military is in Ukraine by the Kremlin's orders.


Do you actually think they would tell you yes Russia sent us here?



Can we say the same for the Russian journalists, those that were threatened? It is still biased. You are not able to get me to believe that this is unbiased reporting. Because its not.



But Russian media is?

How is it biased, as it gives you both sides of the story something Russian media will not give you.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stanislas




Hi tsurfer2000h, I am not sure if you are aware but Ukraine has denied access to the Russian media. The ones that do go in go in without passports and hide their identity.
Also, Russian and other journalist have also been detained and some even killed, yes?


Actually it wouldn't matter as all Russian media is going to say whatever the government tells them to say, so you wouldn't see the reports anyway.

Yes they have at the hands of pro Russian separatists.



Russian Cossack volunteers and they admit it, it does not give proof that Russian military is in Ukraine by the Kremlin's orders.


Do you actually think they would tell you yes Russia sent us here?



Can we say the same for the Russian journalists, those that were threatened? It is still biased. You are not able to get me to believe that this is unbiased reporting. Because its not.



But Russian media is?

How is it biased, as it gives you both sides of the story something Russian media will not give you.


Will you shut up about the Russian media? You have zero proof of your claims, it's mostly all slander that's used to derail real discussion, and it's not just you doing it either.

"Oh, ethnic cleansing in Ukraine? It's all Russian propaganda because Russia is the enemy and their media has an agenda".

You, Xcath, that dragonridr guy and others are all launching a full scale anti-information campaign right now.

You're labelling all information from eastern side as "Russian propaganda". This clearly shows total ignorance that most of what the Russian media is reporting, is secondary to what the rebels are reporting and to what civilians are recording.

Best of all is that you people troll and taunt us, demanding we post evidence of facts that are well known. Yet it's hilarious that the last time I posted a video on Ukraine that happened to show a corpse, somebody reported my post and I was threatened by staff that I would be banned if I kept posting videos featuring any kind of violence or gore.

I would love to show all kinds of videos. There's one just released today showing national guard soldiers executing a police officer on the side of a street. But I am not allowed to link to it in any way here.



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 12:55 PM
link   
a reply to: Vovin




Will you shut up about the Russian media? You have zero proof of your claims, it's mostly all slander that's used to derail real discussion, and it's not just you doing it either.



Someone upset that their precious media is being questioned?

It has already been shown that the Russian media has lied on more than one occasion about the situation in Ukraine, so that is something you can't change.

What discussion as all you want is everyone to only believe Russian media, because according to you everything else is western propaganda.

Just a little something you may want to remember...

The truth is not slander.




"Oh, ethnic cleansing in Ukraine? It's all Russian propaganda because Russia is the enemy and their media has an agenda".



Well I see it hasn't been proven that Ukraine is doing that now has it?

But I do see that Russia is in full swing doing it to the Tartars, yet that get's left out like yesterdays garbage...why?



Best of all is that you people troll and taunt us, demanding we post evidence of facts that are well known.


If asking for evidence to back your claim is considered taunting and trolling then a conspiracy website like ATS may not be for you, as there are sites that should cater to your jaded view of the events in Ukraine. And if it's well known then posting the info shouldn't be a problem now should it?



Yet it's hilarious that the last time I posted a video on Ukraine that happened to show a corpse, somebody reported my post and I was threatened by staff that I would be banned if I kept posting videos featuring any kind of violence or gore.


And that is something you need to take up with the admins and owners of this site not with other members. We have nothing to do with that.



I would love to show all kinds of videos. There's one just released today showing national guard soldiers executing a police officer on the side of a street. But I am not allowed to link to it in any way here.


Although it doesn't really matter, but would those be coming from Russian media sites?



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 01:27 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Is that all you are capable of? Posting your shallow and recycled talking points?

You are the definition of a troll. For news on East Ukraine, I follow sources from inside East Ukraine. Not the Russian media. If I post something here from the Russian media, then it's because the Russian media, which is world class media, is covering it also.

But all you people are able to talk about is how the Russian media is apparently made up of liars. Yet it would be impossible for you to tell me any mainstream media source that is any less biased. Every American source is pure garbage, anybody who says otherwise must have never had a TV during the last decade. Canadian media is quasi-American garbage. Who else is unbiased? Israel, Chinese, al-Jazeera, AFP? What a joke.

EDIT:

Your last comment: "Although it doesn't really matter, but would those be coming from Russian media sites?" In reference to me saying there's a video of national guard executing a police officer.

You're saying that it's not real and never happened because east Ukraine / Russian sources post it. And you dare rant about truth. You obviously work to suppress it.
edit on 5-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 5 2014 @ 01:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: stanislas




Hi there tsurfer2000h, how can you say that these video's are unbiased when the journalist are embedded with the Ukrainian army?


So has any of the Russian media actually go and talk to Ukraine soldiers about what is happening...No.

But VICE has done that...


An hour before he was kidnapped by pro-Russia forces, Simon Ostrovsky interviewed two Russian Cossacks in Kramatorsk. One man showed Simon his Russian passport, which was the first confirmation VICE has seen of Russians working with the separatists in eastern Ukraine.



www.vice.com...

Also know that Simon Otrovsky only embedded with them after he was kidnapped by pro Russian separatists, and who could blame him as nobody wants to go thru the terror of a kidnapping.


I see you attacking others about there sources and then parade VICE around like they are some incorruptible saviour of the news


Established by Suroosh Alvi, Shane Smith, and Gavin McInnes, the magazine was launched in 1994 as the Voice of Montreal with government funding, and the intention of the founders was to provide work and a community service



Numerous media sources reported in mid-August 2013 that Rupert Murdoch's corporation 21st Century Fox had invested US$70 million in Vice Media


en.m.wikipedia.org...(magazine)

VICE is just as dirty as everyone else, stop using them as a source coz they ain't credible.
edit on 5-7-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)




top topics



 
79
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join