I AM that I AM

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
a reply to: Belcastro

If Christ and God are one in the same, as you describe, why did Christ cry out at the end, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me"?

He is God the Son. Separate, yet fully God. As well, He was fully man, while He was here fulfilling His destiny....

In Matthew 27:45-46, it says, "Now from the sixth hour darkness fell upon all the land until the ninth hour. 46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" If Jesus is God, why would He say this?

First of all, Jesus quoted Psalm 22:1 which begins with, "My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" Jesus quoted this Psalm in order to draw attention to it and the fact that He was fulfilling it there on the cross.

Psalm 22 was written about 1000 years before Christ was born. At that time, crucifixion had not yet been invented. Actually, the Phoenicians developed it, and Rome borrowed the agonizing means of execution from them. So, when Rome ruled over Israel, it became the Roman means of capital punishment imposed upon the Jews whose biblical means of execution was stoning. Nevertheless, Jesus is pointing to the scriptures to substantiate His messianic mission.

Jesus Said what he said as another fulfillment of prophecy of the old testament.

2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." It is possible that at some moment on the cross when Jesus became sin on our behalf, that God the Father, in a sense, turned His back upon the Son. It says in Hab. 1:13 that God is too pure to look upon evil. Therefore, it is possible that when Jesus bore our sins in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24), that the Father, spiritually, turned away.

www.biblestudytools.com...

I will say this, a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. This is what jesus said when they asked them how to tell the difference from false prophets or not. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Just as the False Prophet of Revelation is thrown into the Fire.

And i will say this, Jesus said "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.…

Jesus said "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

The Jews said " How does he know the scripture without having studied?" And jesus replied " My Teaching is not my own but is from the one who sent me. Whoever chooses to do his will shall know whether my teaching is from God or whether i speak on my own. whoever speaks on his own seeks his own glory, but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him is truthful, and there is no wrong in him."

And i will say this; The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.
And its as jesus said; that this generation will deny him.

a reply to: Belcastro

The Bible has been fabricated numerous times throughout history.. But I do agree with you concerning the modern State of Israel and the false Jews.

originally posted by: Belcastro

I will say this; Jesus said " My Father and I are One." and " If you've seen me then you've seen the father." He also said " My Father is greater than I.

I will say this, you seem to be leaning heavily toward the exoteric these days. I seem to remember a time when you were more esoteric. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.

Jesus was one of many mystics who experienced the transpersonal state of unitive consciousness. This state is the core of world religion and myth, not just Christianity. He united with the One Mind, of which we are all expressions.

"All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists."

-Huang Po

As Jesus traveled and preached, he went in and out of that state of ultimate consciousness. As all mystics do. So he alternated between speaking from the perspective of the One Mind, and speaking from the perspective of an ego-self in service of the One Mind. So he would periodically go into the desert to practice mysticism in order to go back into the unitive state.

We all have a built-in spiritual opposition system. It levels up with us as we gain progress. That system has been personified as satan in Christianity. In other religions it has other personifications.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: Belcastro

I will say this; Jesus said " My Father and I are One." and " If you've seen me then you've seen the father." He also said " My Father is greater than I.

I will say this, you seem to be leaning heavily toward the exoteric these days. I seem to remember a time when you were more esoteric. Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.

Jesus was one of many mystics who experienced the transpersonal state of unitive consciousness. This state is the core of world religion and myth, not just Christianity. He united with the One Mind, of which we are all expressions.

"All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists."

-Huang Po

As Jesus traveled and preached, he went in and out of that state of ultimate consciousness. As all mystics do. So he alternated between speaking from the perspective of the One Mind, and speaking from the perspective of an ego-self in service of the One Mind. So he would periodically go into the desert to practice mysticism in order to go back into the unitive state.

We all have a built-in spiritual opposition system. It levels up with us as we gain progress. That system has been personified as satan in Christianity. In other religions it has other personifications.

I will say this; i know all about the esoteric; from the As Above so Below to the knowledge of the mystery religions. The Secret Societies Believe in a Doctrine Called the Law of One; Where it says that all things are One; But also it says that in truth there is no right and wrong. They Believe that all things are apart of one original thought. They believe that everything is the creator. The man who "channelled" the law of one ended up killing himself; he couldnt handle the deep secrets of satan; where the ultimate truth, to them, is that you could be evil in secret and deathchamber things, and they worship death and practice sexual magic. But jesus said that satan is the father of all lies, and there is no truth in him.

There was once a thread called the window of opportunity, posted by a user who claimed to be an illuminati insider; and it got alot of attention here on ATS. But i will say this; that is just another false prophet that jesus warned about because the predictions made therein never came to pass.

And i will ask you this; if unitive consciousness is the core of all world religion, then why do they all contradict each other?
if Everyone was an expression of the one mind, then that means all of the worlds evil is an expression of god, or what you call the one mind. Do you really believe that we are all of one consciousness? Why then do we not experience being other people? you are basically saying that you are god experiencing itself.... But how could you have created yourself? why would the one mind want to experience being all things? with that logic then God experiences all of the hardships and all of the pain and suffering of everything in existence.

originally posted by: Belcastro

And i will ask you this; if unitive consciousness is the core of all world religion, then why do they all contradict each other?

On the exoteric surface, they seem to. Under the surface, they don't. Under the surface are currents that run through world religion and myth like a thread, tying them all together in a common heritage; a fundamental unity.

"No one, as far as I know, has yet tried to compose into a single picture the new perspectives that have been opened in the fields of comparative symbolism, religion, mythology, and philosophy by the scholarship of recent years.

The richly rewarded archaeological researches of the past few decades; astonishing clarifications, simplifications, and coordinations achieved by intensive studies in the spheres of philology, ethnology, philosophy, art history, folklore, and religion; fresh insights in psychological research; and the many priceless contributions to our science by the scholars, monks, and literary men of Asia, have combined to suggest a new image of the fundamental unity of the spiritual history of mankind.

Without straining beyond the treasuries of evidence already on hand in these widely scattered departments of our subject, therefore, but simply gathering from them the membra disjuncta of a unitary mythological science, I attempt in the following pages the first sketch of a natural history of the gods and heroes, such as in its final form should include in its purview all divine beings--not regarding any as sacrosanct or beyond its scientific domain.

For, as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods: there has been a history, an evolution, a series of mutations, governed by laws; and to show forth such laws is the proper aim of science." -Joseph Campbell

if Everyone was an expression of the one mind, then that means all of the worlds evil is an expression of god, or what you call the one mind.

'I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.'

-Isaiah 45:7

Underneath pairs of opposites is unity.

'Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I'll meet you there.

When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase "each other" doesn't make any sense.' -Rumi

Do you really believe that we are all of one consciousness? Why then do we not experience being other people?

We do. Just, one at a time.

you are basically saying that you are god experiencing itself.... But how could you have created yourself?

Retro-causality.

why would the one mind want to experience being all things? with that logic then God experiences all of the hardships and all of the pain and suffering of everything in existence.

Indeed he does. I think the Hindu nailed that one with the concept of Lila.

Within non-dualism, Lila is a way of describing all reality, including the cosmos, as the outcome of creative play by the divine absolute (Brahman).

All the World is a stage, as the Bard said. After all is said and done, we take off our stage-masks and find that there was only one Actor all along, playing many roles. The Hindu call this Actor Atman/Brahman, you call it God.

originally posted by: GoOfYFoOt
What if the Christ and Lucifer are twins?
Diametrically opposite, yet with equal power?
The ying and the yang, so to speak?


NO WAY

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u


NO WAY

Picses is two fish swimming in opposite directions, and yet they are one constellation.

Yin and yang are complementary opposites, and yet they are united in the Tao.

Christ is the first fish, which was dominant in the sky at the beginning of the age of Pisces. The anti-Christ is the second fish, which gained dominance in the sky as the paradigm of science took hold and rendered Christianity dysfunctional.

At the end of the age of Pisces, thesis and antithesis will unite in synthesis. Religion and science will unite, and then the Wisdom of God will shower us like gentle rain in the age of Aquarius.

a reply to: Belcastro

Well, a lot could be said about this, but I will give a few instances. The first is found in the famous passage from Genesis 1:26-27

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

In vs. 26 we see the plural US and OUR... this is the three persons of the Godhead(Trinity) conversing with one another regarding the creation of man. In vs. 27 we then see the singular HIS, because there is one God, eternally existing in three distinct and coequal persons.

Another instance of a pre-incarnate Jesus in the OT is when Abraham and God are speaking with one another before God destroys the city of Sodom. In Genesis 18 the LORD, along with two angels visit Abraham, and they have a conversation because Abraham is pleading for Lot to be spared. Now one could certainly argue that this instance alone is not evidence of the Trinity, but when compared to other scripture it becomes evident. One of the best passages to explore here is in Exodus 33:11,19-20. In Exodus 33:11 we see an instance where Moses speaks to God face to face..

11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

but a few verses later we see this...

And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

So if no one can see His face and live, then who was Moses speaking to face to face? Jesus said in John 6:46

No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

So here are your two options... 1) Either the Bible is wrong and contradicts itself, and many non-believes certainly make that argument, or 2) The Bible is indeed the inspired and infallible word of God, and the theological idea of the Trinity, one God existing in three, co-equal and distinct persons is true. I think that when Abraham was speaking to God face to face he was clearly speaking to a pre-incarnate Jesus, or who John 1:1 calls The Word. When Moses saw God face to face he was also speaking to The Word. It is the face of the Father that no man can see and live.

One more example from Genesis 1 is in vs.1-3

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Here we see God the Father speaking, and His first words are "let there be light". The pre-incarnate Jesus IS The Word, and He is also the Light of the world as it says in John 1. We also see the spirit of God hovering over the waters, so right from the start of the Bible we see the workings of The Father, The Word, and The Holy Spirit. It is also interesting that He said "let there be light" on the first day, and yet He didn't create the sun or moon until the fourth day, so where did this light come from? It came from a pre-incarnate Jesus... The Word of God.. as it says in John 1:1, In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word WAS God.

Then there is 1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

For the record, all scripture that I have quoted up until now is from the NIV, but this verse is from the KJV. There is debate among scholars regarding the inspired authenticity of this verse in the way it is worded in the KJV, but it is still relevant to this topic.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

So here are your two options... 1) Either the Bible is wrong and contradicts itself, and many non-believes certainly make that argument, or 2) The Bible is indeed the inspired and infallible word of God, and the theological idea of the Trinity, one God existing in three, co-equal and distinct persons is true.

Your first quote:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

That is the "royal we", and everyone who has studied history knows that.

So, as for my two 'options':
The Bible is wrong and contradicts itself.

a reply to: BlueMule

I will say this,

And I will say this:
Preaching is not allowed here. No matter how much the OP "will say", it doesn't make what he says the truth.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BlueMule

I will say this,

And I will say this:
Preaching is not allowed here. No matter how much the OP "will say", it doesn't make what he says the truth.

I will say I agree ...and where two or more are gathered in the name of ATS(deny ignorance) ATS is in their midst.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I can see the flowers in your eyes, sister.



But I wouldn't accuse him of preaching. I think he is struggling to find a balance between the esoteric and the exoteric and is reaching out for help.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime


So here are your two options... 1) Either the Bible is wrong and contradicts itself, and many non-believes certainly make that argument, or 2) The Bible is indeed the inspired and infallible word of God, and the theological idea of the Trinity, one God existing in three, co-equal and distinct persons is true.

Binary logic? That's not consistant with non-dualistic quantum logic. There is always a middle ground.

Thinking in terms of true and false is not the way to approach world religion and myth. All religions are true, for their time and place. All religions are metaphors for the human and cosmic mystery. Over time, those metaphors become opaque as culture evolves. Then the challenge is to find a way to see through them; to see the transcendent which shines through all things.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And that is a choice that you have to live with, and unfortunately die with.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And that is a choice that you have to live with, and unfortunately die with.

It almost sounds like you think she should conform to your idea of religion, out of fear.

"O God! If I worship You for fear of Hell, burn me in Hell,
and if I worship You in hope of Paradise, exclude me from Paradise.
But if I worship You for Your Own sake,
grudge me not Your everlasting Beauty.”

-Rābiʻa al-ʻAdawiyya al-Qaysiyya

double-post

I dont completely agree; although in revelation near the end it says to let the wicked be wicked, and that the righteous must be righteous.

If there were a balance; of good and evil;, ying, and yang. why does one triumph over another in revelation? doesnt make sense to me, instead it would mean that there would be a never ending battle between both.

I dont believe the law of one ra material because it says that ra is apart of a planetary confederation, and that him and his social memory complex built the great pyramid. but if it were true and they are at war with orion as it says, why then does one of its shaft point to orion? it also says that the orion empire planted the 10 commandments; but if it were so how could thou shalt not kill; how could killing someone be not a karmicaly bad thing;which contradicts another statement wherein they say it IS a karmicaly bad thing. how could not killing someone be service to self?

How could you greet someone in the love and light of an infinate creator, and say that all things are light/love, but then go on to say that you are not of the light or love?

ill be honest with you though, because you seem to have higher sense of reality than most.

for a very long time ive been having a battle between good and evil within my mind, but i refuse to be both;
for the wages of sin is death, and even without myself being other people i wouldnt do evil to them, just as i wouldnt do evil to myself.

I dont believe that you could be evil to someone you love, as jesus said of the new commandment of which was the law of the prophets.

how could you be evil to someone because you love them?
Instead jesus said to be perfect, like his heavenly father is perfect. he makes it rain on the just and the unjust.

How can one be good, and evil? or is that what satan meant when adam ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil when he said "you shall be like god?"

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

it just doesnt make sense, how could pre-incarnate jesus talk face to face with moses if he was not manifested in the flesh? doesnt that mean he was without a material fleshly body?

but i will say that in the bible, man is made of a trinity, the body, the soul, and the spirit.
the body is of the flesh, the soul is of the mind, and the spirit is of God.

So if man were made in God's Image, and Likeness, i suppose so too would god be in a trinity.

but i have a hard time accepting the catholic dogma of a trinity, because i really believe that they are, or are of, mystery babylon, the woman. so i dont believe their traditions and doctrines, and rules made by men.

i have seen you post that you also believe as the same as i do.

and another question, when god said let us make man in our image and our likeness, how do you know he wasnt talking to the angels? or what they call the nephilim; the sons of god?

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I can see the flowers in your eyes, sister.

But I wouldn't accuse him of preaching. I think he is struggling to find a balance between the esoteric and the exoteric and is reaching out for help.

exactly. you have no idea the battle within my mind,.
Good, evil, God, Esoteric, and exoteric.

for example

i think of an evil thing and a tingling sensation happens all around my crown.
and i think of a good thing and i feel a tingling sensation all around my crown.
i think of the law of one, and i get a tingling sensation all around my crown.
i think of the difference between creator and creation, and i feel a tingling sensation all around my crown.

theres an internet group that calls these tingles ASMR, you can look it up on google.
I keep feeling it to religious and biblical things when i think of them or ask questions or say things outloud.
it feels really good, like orgasmic; but i dont want to associate it with bad things.