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After Hobby Lobby Decision, Federal Court Grants Catholic Network Relief From Birth Control Mandate

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posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:38 PM
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a reply to: buster2010

OMG!!!

I didn't realize that they couldn't go out on their own and purchase them!

(sing with me!. . . Entitlement! Entitlement! All I want forever is entitlement!)




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:42 PM
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The conservative right better enjoy this "victory" while they can because the dembs are going to
use this as proof of the "war on women" by the GOP and conservative supreme court. And big business getting preferential treatment over women's rights.

It's about perception and not reality. If Hillary runs, their isn't a republican alive that can win.

Enjoy it while you can.


One of the GOP contenders Christie is already backing away from this decision.

Look it up...
edit on 1-7-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Yeah but by requiring people to purchase the insurance(as is the case with ACA because those plans are not affordable) and then making large range of services not available is going to deny access to a lot those women.

Birth control(depends on type but different women require different brands depending on how their body reacts) and female services are not cheap. Women in general pay much more than men for routine care. Pap smears, breast exams, birth control, hysterectomies, ablations, birth control for abnormal bleeding, pregnancy, tube tying after ablations, der...der...der...der.der....

Then on top of that those same women might now be paying for insurance as required that is pretty much useless to them yet very expensive.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: theantediluvian

You're acting as though Hobby Lobby has banned contraceptives to its employees.

They haven't.

They just won't pay for it.

This entitlement mentality is stunning!


You're acting as though

a) most people don't obtain health insurance through their employers and
b) IUDs are something that people typically pay out of pocket for and more importantly
c) that there's nothing wrong with letting employers arbitrarily dictate what healthcare services their employees' insurance should pay for
d) and finally, that there's nothing wrong with treating a corporation as an individual!

Imagine that this opens the door to a host of similar actions by companies until one day, it negatively affects a large segment of society, including people you know and care about? It has nothing to do with an entitlement mentality, whatever the hell that is. I'm talking about the reality of how healthcare services are purchased for the majority of people in this country and you're talking in far right catechisms and dismissive platitudes!
edit on 2014-7-1 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: OrphanApology
a reply to: beezzer

Yeah but by requiring people to purchase the insurance(as is the case with ACA because those plans are not affordable) and then making large range of services not available is going to deny access to a lot those women.


Then women (along with everyone else) should be irate because they are forced to buy insurance.


Birth control(depends on type but different women require different brands depending on how their body reacts) and female services are not cheap. Women in general pay much more than men for routine care. Pap smears, breast exams, birth control, hysterectomies, ablations, birth control for abnormal bleeding, pregnancy, tube tying after ablations, der...der...der...der.der....


I know. I married a woman.


Then on top of that those same women might now be paying for insurance as required that is pretty much useless to them yet very expensive.


It's only useless if they are trying to get abortion medication.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

You're acting as though

a) most people don't obtain health insurance coverage through their employers and
b) IUDs are something that people typically pay out of pocket for and more importantly
c) that there's nothing wrong with letting employers arbitrarily dictate what portions of healthcare they should pay
d) and finally, that there's nothing wrong with treating a corporation as an individual!


Nope. But if you want to post my thoughts, just use my login, I'll U2U you my password.


Imagine that this opens the door to a host of similar actions by companies until one day, it negatively affects a large segment of society, including people you know and care about? It has nothing to do with an entitlement mentality, whatever the hell that is. I'm talking about the reality of how healthcare services are purchased for the majority of people in this country and you're talking in far right catechisms and dismissive platitudes!



Nope. Again.

We're not talking about the end of the world, we're actually talking about freedom and it terrifies so many!

It entails a bit of personal responsibility and foresight.

But if having government dictate what everyone (including business) should do, then yes, you probably are disappointed.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010
The money we have wasted on the war on terror could have paid for national healthcare.


For about 6 months......

fas.org...
$1.3 Trillion (as of 2011...)

www.ssab.gov...
Cost of healthcare in USA = $2.8 Trillion (in 2008 alone)

America cannot have national healthcare without vast reductions in service, vast increases in wealth redistribution, and significant curtails on provided services, none of which this working tax payer who pays for his family's care himself is willing to accept. I've said it beforeand it bears repeating now, I take care of myself and my own, those who refuse to do the same don't concern me.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

No it's useless if you decide to do any number of health related things that could be construed as being tied to birth control at all. When I was younger I had a girlfriend who had anemia due to abnormal bleeding that went on birth control. That's just one example. At time if she didn't have insurance she would not have been able to afford that. She also later had to have ablation for same problem and have tubes tied because of ablation.

Hobby Lobby employees make minimum wage. These are not rich folk.

This is just a mess of a healthcare system and this makes it to where now women who are sitting in office may have to make choices not to receive bad care because of working # wages and paying for overpriced mandated insurance that doesn't cover their needs.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
The conservative right better enjoy this "victory" while they can because the dembs are going to
use this as proof of the "war on women" by the GOP and conservative supreme court. And big business getting preferential treatment over women's rights.

It's about perception and not reality. If Hillary runs, their isn't a republican alive that can win.

Enjoy it while you can.


One of the GOP contenders Christie is already backing away from this decision.

Look it up...


You're right. The dems will use this. They'll beat this into the ground.

Forget high unemployment
Forget a bad foreign policy
Forget Benghazi
Forget the IRS scandals

Lets all focus on Hobby Lobby. Not just here on ATS, but I suspect this will be the lead on every network (except one) for months!



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: OrphanApology

The government made the mistake of mandating anything. Period.

because when you mandate, it goes against so many things in the Constitution.

The government knew this.

It's a bad situation all around.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
The conservative right better enjoy this "victory" while they can because the dembs are going to
use this as proof of the "war on women" by the GOP and conservative supreme court.

It's about perception and not reality. If Hillary runs, their isn't a republican alive that can win.

Enjoy it while you can.





I hope not...this is a little off topic but in direct response to your post and I do not wish to derail the discussion.

I hope for a Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren ticket. Clinton is tired. The people are tired of Bush/Clinton/Bush/(insert token sacrificial lamb)/Clinton or Bush...

I am more concerned lesser courts are letting ecumenical organizations get in on banning medical procedures that have more benefits than just birth control, for a religious reason...
I thought the ruling only pertained to families and since when does the Supreme Court get an equivalent of a line item veto?
"Yeah, this law applies to family business for ONLY these procedures..."

The snowball has begun rolling downhill...Mormons, Scientologists, etc. Are worth Billions and it is only a matter of time before THEY impose their will on employees and what they can be exempt from due to religious belief. No one religion held above others remember?
Enjoy your so called victory. The nation has been divided further.

We haven't seen or heard the last of this. I fear this is only the beginning.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: OrphanApology

Hobby Lobby employees make minimum wage.


Do they?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The evil folks at Hobby Lobby pay their full-time employees a minimum of $14 an hour. That is nearly double the national average for minimum wage. The hourly wage for part-time employees is also $9.50.







posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: OrphanApology

The government made the mistake of mandating anything. Period.

because when you mandate, it goes against so many things in the Constitution.

The government knew this.

It's a bad situation all around.


Two words...

Selective service.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:02 PM
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originally posted by: the owlbear

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: OrphanApology

The government made the mistake of mandating anything. Period.

because when you mandate, it goes against so many things in the Constitution.

The government knew this.

It's a bad situation all around.


Two words...

Selective service.


And you're only proving my point




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: buster2010


It has to do with the Hobby Lobby case. They changed the law to follow the wishes of a religion which goes directly against the first amendment.


Of course that was after the government made the law that made the first infringement and that part of the law was just found unconstitutional !!

You can't have it both ways it seems.

Big Dilemma.






posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: OrphanApology

Hobby Lobby employees make minimum wage.


Do they?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The evil folks at Hobby Lobby pay their full-time employees a minimum of $14 an hour. That is nearly double the national average for minimum wage. The hourly wage for part-time employees is also $9.50.






... and in the same thread that was debunked:



originally posted by: RancorXXX
Xuechen, the problem with making posts like this is that they can so easily be fact checked. The ONLY web sites reporting that Hobby Lobby pays its employees "$14 an hour" are Christian evangelical web sites trying to make Hobby Lobby look like some sort of heroes. This is partisan PR and full of falsehoods on Hobby Lobby and their apologists part. Sorry to be so harsh, but this "$14 an hour" meme is being plugged all across the web by them or one of those dark money political organizations.

Here are the REAL facts on what they pay their employees:

Cashier - Hourly - $9.40/hr (they start at $8)
Stockman - Hourly - $8.68/hr (they start them out at $6 - not even minimum wage!)
Department Head - Hourly - $12.11/hr
Customer Service Manager - Hourly - $11.05/hr

There's a full list here:


Hobby Lobby Salaries
Hobby Lobby Salaries



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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Strange how all of the criticism is directed toward hobby lobby and yet a muslim owned company is totally exempt from any mandates related to ACA.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

My reply to birdman before I jumped screens and posted in wrong place:

Ah I see.

Part-time workers make 9.50 an hour. So why would a company have such a giant gap of pay between their full-time and part-time workers?

That's the catch. It's very rare for stores nowadays to hire full-time store workers. Most hire mostly pt workers and get them to work 30-35 hours per week. They are still "part-time".

Still slightly higher than minimum wage but part-time would still be too low to afford many things.

edit: Average salary on glass door is 9.50 an hour for hobby lobby employees(cashiers). That's about the same as most semi-min jobs that are at store locations. Target pays similar at least where I'm at. Actually quite a few do. Looks like they don't have very many full-time workers.
edit on 1-7-2014 by OrphanApology because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

Do they?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The evil folks at Hobby Lobby pay their full-time employees a minimum of $14 an hour. That is nearly double the national average for minimum wage. The hourly wage for part-time employees is also $9.50.






That minimum of $14 per hour is not true. In addition to the probably much lower wage than you are stating they more than likely have to kick in for their health coverage.
edit on 7/1/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 08:27 PM
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a reply to: beezzer



Yeah...we both could go back and forth over laws and pardons and abuses of power by the gubment all night...and we have in times past, but, yeah...

Can I just get in that the Executive branch has been out of control for nearly twenty years. But I NEVER thought the Supreme Court would stoop as far as they have in recent times...makes me wish for term limits for justices.

Cheers.




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