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Famous Cardiac Surgeon’s Stories of Near Death Experiences in Surgery

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posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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Dr. Lloyd Rudy, a renown pioneer in cardiac surgery, discusses a case where a patient, who had been dead on the operating table for 20 minutes, miraculously returned to life without their intervention and then proceeded to describe all of the events that took place in the operating room after he had died on the table.



The DailyGrail further reports:


In January 2013 Dr. Amado-Cattaneo commented on the YouTube interview, stating that “Everything that Dr. Lloyd Rudy explained in this video is absolutely true. I was there with him doing this surgery. The patient fully recovered and what he said to us after the surgery is what he experienced”. When brought to the attention of NDE researchers Titus Rivas and Rudolf Smit, they contacted him to ask for more details about the case, and they have recently shared their discussion in the latest issue of the Journal of Near-Death Studies:

-------------------

This case happened some time late 1990s early 2000s… I did witness the entire case and everything that my partner Dr. Rudy explained in the video. I do not have a rational scientific explanation to explain this phenomenon. I do know that this happened. This patient had close to 20 minutes or more of no life, no physiologic life, no heart beat, no blood pressure, no respiratory function whatsoever and then he came back to life and told us what you heard on the video. He recovered fully.

…This was not a hoax, no way, this was as real as it gets. We were absolutely shocked that he would come back after 20 or more minutes, we had pronounced him dead on the operating room table and told the wife that he had died.

…we thought all along his description was quite accurate regarding things he said he saw or heard. Patients’ eyes are always shut during surgery, most of the time they are taped so they do not open since this can cause injury to the corneas.


Some might question why I put this in the Science and Technology forum. I believe this is the appropriate place for discussions of scientific, fact based, evidence. The evidence being discussed is not subjective, it is objective.

From this story we can surmise only one of two possibilities:

1. A famous cardiac surgeon, along with his entire medical staff and supporting doctors, decided to fabricate a story that could undermine their practice for no financial gain.

or

2. Consciousness is a fundamental component of the universe that is separate and distinct from the brain. That is to say, the brain does not create consciousness, but rather interprets and processes it, like a radio processes radio waves.

Numerous experiments support the second conclusion, including such famous lab experiments as the Double Slit Experiment and the Quantum Eraser Experiment. It is also supported logically by such thought experiments as the "Wingers Friend Thought Experiment." It is further supported by the logical problem of "Strong Emergence," whereby it is a violation of reductionist principles to assume that whole-brain activity can give rise to conscious experience, without it being able to be reduced down into its constituent parts.

The question of how consciousness arises is an enigma in quantum mechanics. The problem of how experience arises from inanimate matter is called the Quantum Mind-Body Problem. "Science" is no closer to solving this problem today than they were over 100 years ago when Einstein first proposed his theories. It is an "impossible" problem to solve, only if one assumes that matter creates experience.

The experiments show, and stories like this confirm, the primacy of consciousness. Matter is a byproduct of consciousness, not vice-versa. Because of these facts, it is a misguided notion to conclude that science and spiritually are fundamentally opposed to one another. They are integrated at the core of reality.

edit on 7/1/2014 by AnarchoCapitalist because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

The last time I spoke with Ingo Swann was quite a while before he died, and he had recently had an operation where he'd "died" on the table, and said that he was floating above his body in the operating room for about 25 minutes (although judging time in that situation isn't something to take bets on). From him you'd expect nothing less.

I also had a relative who "died" at home, was flat out dead, and they revived his heart at the hospital about 45 minutes later. His brain had shut down though, and he died again the next day without regaining consciousness.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:33 PM
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I watched the video OP embedded (UQbcsY2saD0) and no where in that video was there a mention of NDE, or a patient waking from death. The video was describing how dental cavities were one of the causes of bad heart valves.

I would like to watch the video that you described, and not what ever this video is that has nothing to do with the topic.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: Skada
I watched the video OP embedded (UQbcsY2saD0) and no where in that video was there a mention of NDE, or a patient waking from death. The video was describing how dental cavities were one of the causes of bad heart valves.

I would like to watch the video that you described, and not what ever this video is that has nothing to do with the topic.


Thanks.

I linked the wrong video. That has been corrected. Here is the rest of the video that talks about the dental cavities and bad heart valves.




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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If there was video of procedure and time stamp on it, I would believe its possible, this way, with dental video and no more proof then doctor's word for it... sorry - hard to believe and it is in wrong subforum... this should be moved.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog
If there was video of procedure and time stamp on it, I would believe its possible, this way, with dental video and no more proof then doctor's word for it... sorry - hard to believe and it is in wrong subforum... this should be moved.


It's not just his word, its the word of the entire medical staff that was in the OR.

I linked the wrong video. The OP has been updated with the correct video.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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Yes, corrected, thank you. (Youtube video: JL1oDuvQR08)

I enjoyed this video. The "feeling a presence" happens to me a lot. I can "feel" when a spirit is near, so that Jives with my experiences. Overall, good video.

I feel that we go through many lives like reincarnation for the experience of "been there, done that". For, how do you really "know" something, unless you have had that experience.

Thanks for the share.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:04 PM
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you forgot one option:

The machines could have all malfunctioned at the same time and he did not die. Not very likely but the alternative is far more unlikely. Es specially as he didn't suffer any brain damage from lack of oxygen.

The surgeon said there were notes on the monitor but they were there before the guy allegedly died during the op when he was alive. They were not put there after he allegedly died. I don't know how he could have known about them but its just not a good example of something he could have only seen after he allegedly died.

The surgeon said the guy describe him and another doctor talking to each other by a doorway and then the anesthesiologist came running back in. But when he described what really happened he said he was noticing electrical activity on the machine and then he shouted for the anesthesiologist to come back and THEN the anesthesiologist came running back in.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD
you forgot one option:

The machines could have all malfunctioned at the same time and he did not die. Not very likely but the alternative is far more unlikely.


Given the experimental results and the logical problems I linked the OP, I think its far more unlikely that all of the machines suffered a simultaneous undetected malfunction. If they malfunctioned, they shouldn't have picked up the restarted heartbeat.

What you're really claiming is that all of the machines malfunctioned simultaneously, and then ceased malfunctioning simultaneously.

edit on 7/1/2014 by AnarchoCapitalist because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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I loved this post. It is so rare to find a medical doctor that is willing to come forward with their own deeply held convictions that there is something more to life than the flesh.

While some people will try and dismiss this event as stray electrons in the brain, or any other number of coincidences, to the person of religious belief it is just another piece of evidence we have to affirm our faith in things unseen.

I believe that God does exist, at the very least a spiritual realm. I furthermore believe that all laws of nature are designed by the Creator, and that the study of science is the study of God's laws - even if most scientists don't believe in God.

Thank you for taking the time to post this video - it was very powerful, and I am sure it has the power to instill hope in people's lives that their loved ones who have passed are waiting for them, and that they continue on after the pain of death.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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>>
Consciousness is a fundamental component of the universe that is separate and distinct from the brain. That is to say, the brain does not create consciousness, but rather interprets and processes it, like a radio processes radio waves.
>>

Yes this is also my firm belief. The brain (and the human body as a whole) is really merely a "vessel" where a consciousness can settle-in for the purpose of becoming physical and to live a physical existence.

There are countless "scientific" theories which want to explain away NDEs or similar experiences but all those theories have serious flaws.

They want to make it sound as if those experiences are only random "trips" caused by "the spirit molecule" Dxx released in stress situations.....BUT they ignore:

* that people sometimes have NDEs without being close to death, eg. the typical example of the woman who had a "near accident" in a car and had an NDE

* that people only/mostly meet diseased people/souls during their NDEs and not random living ones

* that some people like in your example can recount stuff which they simply could not, like the example of a person who was "dead" on the operating table but knew about what was talked about in a room over, stuff like that.

* that some people have NDEs where their entire brain functions literally ceased. (There is a case where they "froze" a woman and drained her blood literally for a brain surgery). It's not that those people then have some "weird" and disconnected "fantasies" - they experience a reality which according to them feels even more real than the "real" world, despite the fact there is no brain activity whatsoever which would allow this to happen.

* that people report very similar things, not some random incoherent "trips"

* and a lot more.
edit on 7/1/2014 by NoRulesAllowed because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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May as well add this video to the subject. An atheist neurosurgeon gets a rare type of meningitis which shuts down his brain, has full near death experience and lives to tell the tale. Lets just say he didn't come back as an atheist.




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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Almost all of the thing commonly associated with NDE have also been described by people who illegally take dimethyltryptamine. These experiences are absolutely indistinguishable from reality and it sometimes changes the life of the people who experience it with many of them suddenly becoming very spiritual or believers in god etc

Dimethyltryptamine is a naturally occurring substance in the body. it has been proven that it is sometimes created in large quantities by the pineal gland when a person is under extreme stress at or near the point of death.

I think NDE is just a natural process caused by the brain releasing Dimethyltryptamine. Coincidentally the effects of Dimethyltryptamine last for 10-20 mins as the bodies natural MAOI's metabolize the chemical extremely quickly.

edit on 1-7-2014 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: mclarenmp4
May as well add this video to the subject. An atheist neurosurgeon gets a rare type of meningitis which shuts down his brain, has full near death experience and lives to tell the tale. Lets just say he didn't come back as an atheist.



Yeah, that's one of my all time favorite videos by a doctor on near death experiences. I prefer to use Rudy's video though because it's devoid of subjectivity. Alexander's NDE account is mostly subjective, and it can be argued that he "wasn't really dead" or "parts of his brain were still active" or "he did it for financial gain" or "it took place when he was waking up" or other such nonsense. Rudy's account is a lot more concrete. There is less room for the nay-sayers to question what he observed.

Of course, I fully believe Alexander's account. His recovery is miraculous in itself, without adding the NDE to it. His recovery is a medical impossibility. Further, a half-dead brain in a coma isn't going to produce an experience so profound that it turns an atheist into spiritualist, no matter what explanations the mainstream may come up with.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:31 PM
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a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist



What you're really claiming is that all of the machines malfunctioned simultaneously, and then ceased malfunctioning simultaneously.


No i didnt claim anything. You only listed options that backed up your theory , i simply provided an option that you left out.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD
Almost all of the thing commonly associated with NDE have also been described by people who illegally take dimethyltryptamine. These experiences are absolutely indistinguishable from reality.

Dimethyltryptamine is a naturally occurring substance in the body. it has been proven that it is sometimes created in large quantities by the pineal gland when a person is under extreme stress at or near the point of death.

I think NDE is just a natural process caused by the brain releasing Dimethyltryptamine. Coincidentally the effects of Dimethyltryptamine last for 10-20 mins as the bodies natural MAOI's metabolize the chemical extremely quickly.



This is simply not true. The drug you reference causes a vastly different effect than that of a NDE. Dimethyltryptamine hallucinations are often times abstract, and experiencers are often times unable to recall experiences once the subject has "come-down". Much like a dream.

An NDE is typically non-abstract, and very accountable after the experience.

Furthermore, people on Dimethyltryptamine drips don't see things happening in adjacent rooms, have entire conversations with deceased loved ones, or come back with knowledge they should have no right to know.

No - Dimethyltryptamine is not a valid answer in this situation. This is further backed up because the patient had no brain activity, and Dimethyltryptamine induces that...

edit on 1-7-2014 by MentorsRiddle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: MentorsRiddle



This is simply not true. The drug you reference causes a vastly different effect than that of a NDE. '___' hallucinations are often times abstract, and even non-remember able once the subject has "come-down".


Thats only at low dosages. At higher dosages it can produce an alternative reality that is indistinguishable from real life. Its even mentioned on the wiki page for NDE.


edit on 1-7-2014 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist



What you're really claiming is that all of the machines malfunctioned simultaneously, and then ceased malfunctioning simultaneously.


No i didnt claim anything. You only listed options that backed up your theory , i simply provided an option that you left out.


If you want to believe that all of the instruments experienced a simultaneous malfunction, then suddenly started working again, in order to keep your worldview intact, I guess that's your prerogative.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

Like i said its an option you elected to leave out, not my belief.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: PhoenixOD
a reply to: MentorsRiddle



This is simply not true. The drug you reference causes a vastly different effect than that of a NDE. '___' hallucinations are often times abstract, and even non-remember able once the subject has "come-down".


Thats only at low dosages. At higher dosages it can produce an alternative reality that is indistinguishable from real life. Its even mentioned on the wiki page for NDE.




Indeed it can.

There's a little problem with your theory though. It doesn't explain how inanimate matter can become consciously aware in the first place. It's entirely possible that '___' creates similar (yet notably different in many ways) experiences because it alters the "radio station" that the brain is tuned into.

If we assume consciousness is a fundamental component of the universe that is processed and interpreted by the brain, then altering the brain with chemicals is like turning the tuner on a radio.






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