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Are Laws that Favor One Religion over Another a Violation of the First Amendment?

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posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


What are your thoughts on this?


Thoughts? I feel too nauseous and afraid to think - honestly, even factoring in that it comes from this latest SCOTUS the most I could come up with yesterday was: seriously?

Score one for The Brotherhood




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Here's a question for you:

Why are so eager to let society into your bedroom and uterus? I thought you wanted us out of it.


I do want you out of it. But contraception is a preventative medical measure and used to treat other conditions. It's not just for pregnancy.



By simply taking an oral contraceptive a woman can greatly reduce the risk of contracting ovarian cancer.
Oral contraceptives are also used to treat acne, heavy periods which can lead to anemia, irregular periods and reduce the symptoms of PMS


Source

Not to mention endometriosis and ovarian cysts.



If that's really what you want, then you wouldn't be so eager to demand that we spend our money to pay for what you do in it and with it.


This ruling actually made it possible for these contraceptives to be covered by the government, ie tax dollars, ie YOU. Thank God Hobby Lobby has put the responsibility off on the taxpayers, huh?



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




No, they weren't. If they were doing that, they would have said, "If you do this, we won't employ you anymore." And they would have been wrong. Instead, they were saying, "We will pay for insurance that covers A-P, but if you choose to opt for Q-T, you will do that on your own."


Technically. they couldn't fire someone for using birth control, because of privacy laws. Also, Hobby Lobby isn't required to offer all FDA approved birth control, the insurance company is. Hobby Lobby's premium isn't going to go down because they asked that 4 types of BC be withheld from their employees. It may go up though, because of the risk of expensive pregnancy claims.


Now, you can say they were "choosing" for the employee, but options A-P are 16 alternatives to Q-T, and Q-T are available but the employee's sole responsibility. However, if you don't like it, then you should be willing to pony up and pay for all of your care for yourself, and the health care costs in this country should NEVER have changed, but thanks to Democrat instituted wage controls back in the day, employers started offering insurance as a perk to lure in better talent. Now, everyone expects that someone else will pay, and when you expect someone else to pay, you give them control in the decision.


Health care compensation packages are earned. They're part of their compensation.

That's like saying, here's an all you can eat buffet. It costs $7 for everyone, including you. The buffet has beef, pork, chicken and fish. it has Coke, Pepsi, Sierra Mist, 7up, and Sprite, but you're only allowed 7up , because of your employers beliefs. Also, no pork for you. If you want soda or pork, you, and only you, must pay extra, even though the price of those things are already included for everyone else.


When you were growing up, did your parents give you power of the purse or did they control the spending?


Oh, so working women, of child bearing age, should be treated like children by their employers. Employees shouldn't be allowed to make their own health care choices, because they're not responsible enough?

Bottom line......Hobby Lobby doesn't trust their employees to make their own health care choices.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar


when it comes to healthcare isn't this the very basis of insurance??? you pay them a small amount of money and they pay much more if you happen to get sick enough and start stacking up the bills?
if you got seriously ill could you "pay your own way"??



If you invest in your own future the right way the answer would be yes.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

When it becomes actual medicine, it's covered as such. Even the Georgetown policy that Sandra Fluke misrepresented covered it when it was prescribed as medically necessary.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: ketsuko
maybe you should find the battlefield somewhere outside of the birth control that is being covered by insurance then??
you are attacking those who are being as responsible as they can be and throwing obsticles into their path
screaming about responsibility and how we all should be carrying our own weight
and doing very little about the fact that more and more people are finding themselves in the position of having very little choice but to allow someone to share responsibiility
and when it comes to religion and women I would like to point out that the religion is the one with the doctrines that place men as responsible for the women!

"When you demand that someone else take responsibility for you by paying your way,"

when it comes to healthcare isn't this the very basis of insurance??? you pay them a small amount of money and they pay much more if you happen to get sick enough and start stacking up the bills?
if you got seriously ill could you "pay your own way"??




As a woman, I take care of myself, and always have because I value the opportunity to do so, but people like you have robbed me of that and put someone else in charge of my purse and my health care decisions. I spent 18 years of my life growing up so that I could take care of myself, but people like you have deemed that I am too weak as a woman to be able to do it for myself.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: windword



That's like saying, here's an all you can eat buffet. It costs $7 for everyone, including you. The buffet has beef, pork, chicken and fish. it has Coke, Pepsi, Sierra Mist, 7up, and Sprite, but you're only allowed 7up , because of your employers beliefs. Also, no pork for you. If you want soda or pork, you, and only you, must pay extra, even though the price of those things are already included for everyone else.


I don't think people will realize how profound this simple analogy is. Right on the button.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: windword



That's like saying, here's an all you can eat buffet. It costs $7 for everyone, including you. The buffet has beef, pork, chicken and fish. it has Coke, Pepsi, Sierra Mist, 7up, and Sprite, but you're only allowed 7up , because of your employers beliefs. Also, no pork for you. If you want soda or pork, you, and only you, must pay extra, even though the price of those things are already included for everyone else.

No.
It is like going to McDonalds and trying to buy a Whopper.
Then you find out that they don't have them there.
So you find out that you have to go to Burger King if you want a Whopper.

If you don't like what your employer offers for a compensation package, go somewhere that has the package that you are willing to work for.


Oh, the ACA.... That is the government telling McDonalds to start selling Whoppers, or they will be fined.
edit on b000000312014-07-01T14:16:43-05:0002America/ChicagoTue, 01 Jul 2014 14:16:43 -0500200000014 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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And so it begins...


Following the U.S. Supreme Court decision on Hobby Lobby, an Alabama-based Catholic television network was given relief from the federal government's "preventive services" mandate.

Eternal Word Television Network was granted relief from having to pay fines for refusing to comply with the HHS mandate to provide various birth control pills.


Sour ce



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: windword



That's like saying, here's an all you can eat buffet. It costs $7 for everyone, including you. The buffet has beef, pork, chicken and fish. it has Coke, Pepsi, Sierra Mist, 7up, and Sprite, but you're only allowed 7up , because of your employers beliefs. Also, no pork for you. If you want soda or pork, you, and only you, must pay extra, even though the price of those things are already included for everyone else.

No.
It is like going to McDonalds and trying to buy a Whopper.
Then you find out that they don't have them there.
So you find out that you have to go to Burger King if you want a Whopper.

If you don't like what your employer offers for a compensation package, go somewhere that has the package that you are willing to work for.


Oh, the ACA.... That is the government telling McDonalds to start selling Whoppers, or they will be fined.



I don't think people will realize how profound this simple analogy is. Right on the money.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

And unless I'm mistaken that lawsuit was for ALL contraception not just what was considered abortive.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko
people like me???
so you are in a position that you could take care of any serious issue you may have without being covered by insurance?
didn't think so!!!

people like me????
I've raise three kids with a husband that just about raped me less than a month after giving birth! At the time I was a member of a church that did teach that women were subservient to men It was after this incident that I decided I wasn't gonna be a member of any church till I found one that didn't teach such Still looking decades later!!

I put up with my husband and well we did our best to get along till the kids grew up. I don't care what you say once kids come into the picture neither are gonna be able to take full responsibility of them! Heck they are lucky if they can get by working together ! Separate and you are looking at the family that barely could support one household trying to support two!
I have gone months on end eating only once every day!
I have gone without healthcare that I desparately needed and I pay for it to this day!
And so much more!!
Do you even realize just how easy it would have been to to be one of those "people like you" you are referring to???

If you depend on insurance to cover any type of health problem you may suffer now or in the future you are no different than those women who want to have birth control covered by their insurance!

Are you one of those "people like you"?



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy




It is like going to McDonalds and trying to buy a Whopper.
Then you find out that they don't have them there.
So you find out that you have to go to Burger King if you want a Whopper.



Except, Hobby Lobby doesn't sell Big Macs or Whoppers. They're NOT in the health care business. Hobby Lobby is asking that, in fact, ordering the insurance company, that has the full spectrum of services that the law requires, e.g. Whoppers and Big Macs, to close the cupboards, slice their menu, for their employees, and their employees only, and to charge them extra if they ask for a Whopper.


edit on 1-7-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
And so it begins...


Following the U.S. Supreme Court decision on Hobby Lobby, an Alabama-based Catholic television network was given relief from the federal government's "preventive services" mandate.

Eternal Word Television Network was granted relief from having to pay fines for refusing to comply with the HHS mandate to provide various birth control pills.


Sour ce



And there it is!

Can we now put to bed the idea that this ruling won't allow corporations to deny their employee any and all methods of birth control?



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy




It is like going to McDonalds and trying to buy a Whopper.
Then you find out that they don't have them there.
So you find out that you have to go to Burger King if you want a Whopper.



Except, Hobby Lobby doesn't sell Big Macs or Whoppers. They're NOT in the health care business. Hobby Lobby is asking that, in fact, ordering the insurance company, that has the full spectrum of services that the law requires, e.g. Whoppers and Big MAcs, to close the cupboards, slice their menu, for their employees, and only their employees only, and to charge them extra if they ask for a Whopper.

Duh.
You were the one equating employer provided healthcare with an all you can eat buffet.
Not all plans are the same.
If you work for a living, you will find that out when they start taxing you for the plan that your employer compensates you with... or did you miss the point?



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: Benevolent Heretic


Are Laws that Favor One Religion over Another a Violation of the First Amendment?


In order for a law to favor one religion over another, there has to be a)a religion that is favored and b) a religion that is not favored.

What religion was not favored?



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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a reply to: drivers1492

You're not mistaken. That company doesn't have to provide ANY form of contraception now. It is the Contraceptive Mandate that is being tried, not a subset of it.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy




Duh.
You were the one equating employer provided healthcare with an all you can eat buffet.
Not all plans are the same.
If you work for a living, you will find that out when they start taxing you for the plan that your employer compensates you with... or did you miss the point?


No. The ACA offers all methods of contraception. The ACA is the all you can eat buffet.

I understand that the fact that Hobby Lobby doesn't provide the health care, the insurance company does, is a difficult concept to grasp for some.

Hobby Lobby won't be saving money by NOT offering 4 kinds of birth control. It's already included in the "all you can eat" price. Hobby Lobby doesn't trust their employee not to take from the buffet, those things that they disagree with. So they've asked the insurance company to police their employees by denying the coverage that they are capable of offering, under the ACA law.

Hobby Lobby is the middle man inhibiting their employees choices. Trying to make sure that their employees pay extra for services that are already included.




edit on 1-7-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: butcherguy




Duh.
You were the one equating employer provided healthcare with an all you can eat buffet.
Not all plans are the same.
If you work for a living, you will find that out when they start taxing you for the plan that your employer compensates you with... or did you miss the point?



No. The ACA offers all methods of contraception. The ACA is the all you can eat buffet.

I understand that the fact that Hobby Lobby doesn't provide the health care, the insurance company does, is a difficult concept to grasp for some.

Hobby Lobby won't be saving money by NOT offering 4 kinds of birth control. It's already included in the "all you can eat" price. Hobby Lobby doesn't trust their employee not to take from the buffet, those things that they disagree with. So they've asked the insurance company to police their employee by denying the coverage that they are capable of offering, under the ACA law.

Hobby Lobby is the middle man inhibiting their employees choices. Trying to make sure that their employee pay extra for services that are already included.




The ACA isn't an all you can eat buffet.
The ACA is the law that mandates a minimum coverage that certain companies need to provide for their employees.
The SCOTUS ruled that the two companies in the lawsuit do not have to provide the four contraceptives that were in the suit.
There are plenty of companies that offer the minimum ACA requirement, including the full battery of contraceptives... so go work at one of those. Hence the Burger King/McDonalds reference.




Hobby Lobby is the middle man inhibiting their employees choices.

No, Hobby Lobby is an employer. They are just another choice of places to work. If you don't like their package, don't work for them.


edit on bu312014-07-01T14:51:20-05:0002America/ChicagoTue, 01 Jul 2014 14:51:20 -05002u14 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy


No, Hobby Lobby is an employer. They are just another choice of places to work. If you don't like their package, don't work for them.


Hobby Lobby is not an employer. Hobby Lobby is now a person - a person with friends in high places

Jobs are hard to come by these days - and I'm pretty sure that plenty of folks will work for them regardless - workers in this country don't have the right kind of clout - or any if we get right down to it. Work is work - that's just reality

I will never shop there - I realize they could give a crap about that

But, just the same - I'll get my paint from someplace else



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