Helping The Lazy?

a reply to: smithjustinb

I know people who are on Welfare or unemployment who depend on the money from those programs to the extent where they will avoid doing anything that will get them taken off of them.

Have you asked yourself why that might be? Could it be perhaps that whatever job they may get, will not allow them to both pay rent AND afford the basics? Could it be that jobs are so scarce in their area, that there will never BE enough jobs for everyone wanting to work?

Could it be that they want to eat AND have shelter and the only way to DO that in this system (with the cost of living increases and minimum wage rarely increasing) is to use the programs available to them?

I don't believe that anyone is truly lazy.

I do however, think that there is a high degree of depression and/or more especially APATHY due in part, to a regular paycheck whose value is constantly shrinking, and no means to change that reality within the confines of the current system. Unless one was already born well off financially, into said system, there is an underlying feeling of powerlessness amongst many...

If all things were equal, such as basic needs being a given (shelter, food, water, clothing) and everyone had the chance of free education towards their chosen career, what would THAT world look like? A darn sight more motivated, I'll wager.

Just as a lot of crime stems from poverty, so does what some might term "laziness" - or is it really just disillusionment with the entire system?

a reply to: Chiftel

People can be made to work what isn't completely automated. Through rotation. Or for luxuries they would not otherwise be afforded.

And not for 45~50 hours a week but something like 20.

But having to find secure employment just to procure the monetary means you require to sustain your life is retarded and barbaric.

And why the # would you want an employee who only shows up because they need the money to live and for no other reason?

Oh, I know.

Because you want slaves that will jump at the chance to work for peanuts because they're so desperate as they can't afford to live otherwise.

And you wouldn't have these anymore if people had a guaranteed minimum income and thus not be so vulnerable to extortion.

If I could give you 100 stars, I would. Why some cannot see the beautiful and joyous world this would create is beyond me. It's really so very simple to step into that world and visualize what it would look like.

originally posted by: Ralphy
What if laziness was just a side effect of depression?

What if laziness is subjective?

originally posted by: Ralphy
What if a person is lazy because they don't feel like their efforts will be enough?

Good assumption I would agree with this one. An intelligent person that can actually step back from our current reality would appear to be lazy, but may actually be the smart one.

Trade time for money, and the time traded most people are absolutely miserable = Time lost that we'll never get back.

originally posted by: Ralphy
Maybe a lazy person just needs someone to help give them some perspective and encouragement.

Maybe we should learn from a lazy person and actually start to enjoy life again.

Maybe they see things in a different perspective that may surprise everyone.

People perceive lazy because they lack all empathy and understanding of others, save for the few who's health and conditions put them in wheelchairs or with severe obvious health issues. Most people, including your own family if you have health issues, treat everyone the same "if I can do this so can you" from an ego centric point of view.

I am not able to guess at the numbers increased in tent cities or due to the economy issues of late, but many homeless are mentally ill. And others are unable to survive in this world due to a series of issues from health issues, to being the odd one out in the musical chairs, or having one strike against them from a land lord, not having a support team, ie family, either extremely dysfunctional family or deceased family.

Right now, if your child's support system was taken away, all adults who could help, and they were mentally ill or never got picked for job, both health issues, personality issues and even in some cases, luck, with no money, they'd be homeless, especially if everything vanished overnight for them and they just turned that magic age of no ministry help.

There are many health conditions that vary what people can do. Enormously vary, physically vary.

An example, if you walk into the home of someone on a fixed income with crippling arthritis and chronic fatigue low energy, who has had heart attacks already, and moves in slow mode, and has a hard time getting up from the chair and can't bend over without a support system, they're house would almost be in condemnable condition. But in some families, they would be criticized on an ongoing basis and told they should mow the lawn, because that person can and believes everyone's health is just like her own.

I've witnessed and heard a lot and since early childhood could walk everyone's path. Have had bad enough health that once towing into the river, can imagine what its like to be out in the currents and caretake a few different people around me with poor health myself.

And so, I get it.

But most don't.

And all count equally. In fact, the test is having a heart and arranging and equal decent society and if government is full of demons, people need to try to step up to the plate.

Many people just think they can wait for the magical day when they elect a good government who will help their struggling family or the guy on the street, but thats never going to happen.

If anything, the way the world is, and people's health issues, and the differences, is like a master test to see if others have empathy and will try to help.

As someone said above, laziness is subjective. Maybe lazy people do not need help at all.
After more than 20 years of working day by day I realized one thing: being a hard worker does not necessarily mean being smart. Working hard does not necessarily equal a better life. Being smart means to achieve maximum profit with minimum resources. That's what lazy people do, not the hard workers.
I watched myself and other hard working people, running around all day long, working long, exhausting hours, coming home in the evening just to recover for the next day of yet more hard work. Yes, they have a car, and a nice home and so on, but how much they really enjoy those things? How much time and strength they have left to enjoy the fruits of their work? One single stroke of faith, an unexpected disease, a loss of job, an accident, few months of not paying the mortgage and all your years of hard work gone to drain. How smart that is?
Look at the ants, we admire them so much because they are working so hard, they are so organized and smart little fellows...then look at the lion, sleeping there all day long, hunting once a week; or the jackals, or the cat...the hard workers and the lazy one.
As a conclusion I would say that the smaller we are, the harder we need to work to survive. But another thing I learned from experience is that every existence is justified in this world, no matter how lower we think it is. Good or bad, lazy or not is just a point of view; everyone has its own personal reasons for being what it is, and we have no right to judge how they live their life. Help if you can and are willing to, and if not just live and let live, that the best we can do in this life.

Obviously we are moving toward a society where our basic needs are met, opening up our lives to pursue what we love.

People don't get it and still have an idea that one must work for another, or exploit others, to 'deserve' material goods that sustain life and that this threat of death is the only thing keeping society going.

They think nobody would work to sustain society from a sense of moral duty to others, and /or a sense of mutual interest and support. I think people would and will. I also think this feudal system we are in is barbaric.

The ideas are spreading and it will be a slow, tough slog to actualize a world we all would enjoy living in... but it is feasible already. Not to say there won't be unpleasant jobs to do...of course there will... just that the unpleasant duties will be shared and one won't be condemned to do them until they thankfully drop dead.

It's difficult having a notion of how things could be as opposed to how they actually are... but I don't think this is knee-jerk Utopian dreaming, but a concrete, smart, kind alternative to the hell (for some) we've created.

a reply to: Ralphy

People are viewed as lazy for many, many reasons. Some are depressed, some are apathetic, some are selfish freeloaders, some just plain old don't give a damn, some are dealing with physical disabilities and limitations.

Laziness is just a convenient term to lump together and simplify a much more complex problem. It's also convenient because you don't really have to learn about an individual and what makes them lazy (depression, physical disability etc.) because they're just...lazy. 'Nuff said, right?

I have been viewed as lazy and unmotivated my whole life by family, friends, teachers, and employers. I have always pushed myself to my limits of exhaustion and still continued to get called "lazy." Turned out I had a sleeping disorder and a degenerative muscle disease. Lazy, indeed!

I think people usually have valid reasons for being the way they are. Everybody is different, has lived a unique set of circumstances, and has different strengths and weaknesses. Terms like 'lazy' completely bypass the need to actually understand and empathize with a persons' internal processes: motivations, needs, fears etc.

Lazy I am, lazy I'll be.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: Ralphy

People are viewed as lazy for many, many reasons. Some are depressed, some are apathetic, some are selfish freeloaders, some just plain old don't give a damn, some are dealing with physical disabilities and limitations.

Laziness is just a convenient term to lump together and simplify a much more complex problem. It's also convenient because you don't really have to learn about an individual and what makes them lazy (depression, physical disability etc.) because they're just...lazy. 'Nuff said, right?

I have been viewed as lazy and unmotivated my whole life by family, friends, teachers, and employers. I have always pushed myself to my limits of exhaustion and still continued to get called "lazy." Turned out I had a sleeping disorder and a degenerative muscle disease. Lazy, indeed!

I think people usually have valid reasons for being the way they are. Everybody is different, has lived a unique set of circumstances, and has different strengths and weaknesses. Terms like 'lazy' completely bypass the need to actually understand and empathize with a persons' internal processes: motivations, needs, fears etc.

Lazy I am, lazy I'll be.

Dear Narcoleptic Buddha,

Just your username makes me sleepy. Just imagining Buddha in repose/meditation falling asleep by accident...just makes me feel, well lazy. LOL!
This has been an interesting thread. I follow and practice Dudeism. Look it up.

a reply to: Ralphy

I'm a very laid back person and consider myself a "Humanist". I have enough self-confidence where I don't give a flying monkey's butt what people think about me or if I'm keeping up with the "Joneses". I am fortunate that I have a job that I see the result of my hard work. I save lives.
I deal in cellular therapy that for the most part serves patients with cancer. When I find out that the product I processed/produced gave a cancer patient another 5 to 10 years of life and did not have a reaction...I'm golden.

I leave work at work. When I get home or I'm mingling with people at happy hour....I just relax.

a reply to: Kratos40

My posts, my voice, and my physical presence tends to have a most drowsing affect on everyone. Don't worry! It's normal

Anyway, laziness is just a horrible way to generalize. On the other hand, I've seen some people who were very fast and active, but hardly accomplish anything of value. Is that any better than being lazy?

Peter Gibbons in "Office Space" wasn't "lazy"...

What if your dream is to do NOTHING?...

I can relate to that concept ...

I have a dream... and that dream is to do nothing...

If I had a million dollars, I would do NOTHING...

Of course Lawrence his neighbor reminded him that you don't need a million dollars to do nothing...

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha
a reply to: Kratos40

My posts, my voice, and my physical presence tends to have a most drowsing affect on everyone. Don't worry! It's normal

Anyway, laziness is just a horrible way to generalize. On the other hand, I've seen some people who were very fast and active, but hardly accomplish anything of value. Is that any better than being lazy?

LOL! I like how you put that. It seems like you are just very chilled out person and your medical issues just magnify the situation.
I've seen people who are A-type and just stress about everything. They have premature grey hair and end up in the hospital for a few weeks because their blood pressure was so high. For what?
Enjoy life, be lazy....but don't be apathetic when it comes to the important stuff.

a reply to: coastlinekid

I wouldn't say he did "nothing." He just did stuff that was important to HIM, not to Ini-tech (just watched the movie recently.)

One man's ambitions are another man's trifles.

Lefty...... I apologize . Its all complicated and its no-ones fault.

Righty ..... I never apologize. It is still complicated. And its not my fault.


Me ........ 99.9999% of people are inherently lazy. They live off the other 0.000001% motivation and inventive nature to move humanity forward.

Most would just sit down and let the world look after them if it was an option.

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

That movie taught me that you should never let society and it's requirements make you feel guilty if you don't conform to it's precepts...

Being happy with yourself in life is a mental thing...

The homeless man living in a cardboard box under an overpass is as valuable as a Bill Gates... if you can fall asleep knowing you are true to yourself, that is all that matters in the BIG picture...

a reply to: coastlinekid

Unless that person asks for help.

As even his cardboard box was made by someone else.

It is very easy to conveniently forget how much help we receive from other people. Simply by being consumers of other peoples inventions.

a reply to: thedeadtruth


Are you being "literal"?

Why do you assume a homeless person should ask for help?
My example was not referring to mentally ill homeless...


Unless that person goes to the moon to live, we all are consumers of other people's inventions...

sheesh...

I didn't say he was naked in the cardboard box...

And what does he need help for?

I think it is a matter of word definition.

Lazy people are lazy.
Ill people are ill.
Sick people are sick.
Depressed people are depressed.
And, what the heck, I'll throw in unlucky people are unlucky.
Some people are a combination of these characteristics, but some are simply lazy... and selfish.

Lazy people should get rewarded for their efforts, in other words, do nothing for yourself so get nothing for yourself.

I resent supporting and providing for selfish LAZY people who believe I will provide their food and shelter. I do not resent supporting ill, sick, depressed people who are not able to do this for themselves. But I see them as ill, sick or depressed, I do not see them as lazy.

However, my suspicious mind is also willing to believe that some lazy people try to disguise their laziness as illness or depression. I am not saying that some, probably most, are not genuine cases of illness and depression, but I do believe that there are those selfish individuals who are willing to milk the system. After all, who is going to admit to being simply and purely too damn lazy to get off their arses when it is so easy to be diagnosed with something that might just arouse my sympathies and support?

Working in a low paying, minimum wage job to support yourself might not be fulfilling but at least these people are not expecting me to support their lifestyle because they simply cannot be bothered. It also says to me that they are NOT lazy and therefor have the strength of character to do something about their situation. I respect and admire these people. I am sorry for them and wish them luck in finding meaning in their role. Perhaps that meaning might come from knowing that their dull, frustrating, uninspiring, boring and unfulfilling jobs are a means to an end - that end being the ability to provide for themselves and their families.

It's funny, I grew up in a third world country that does not have a welfare or benefit system and where poverty is rife. Yet "laziness" is almost non-existent. Disease and depression are common, and so is entrepreneurship, ingenuity and imagination. Those people who are able to do something DO something, however little it might be and I am perfectly willing to help and support them.

a reply to: WhiteHat

Look at the ants, we admire them so much because they are working so hard, they are so organized and smart little fellows...then look at the lion, sleeping there all day long, hunting once a week; or the jackals, or the cat...the hard workers and the lazy one.

Ever wonder why first it was 40 years of toil before a pension, then 45 years then 50? Why inflation eats into your hard earned dollars? Why work in a system that is stacked against you from birth. Here are the REAL Lazy ones

truedemocracyparty.net...

Rothschilds estimated wealth..$500 Trillion. They control the money the interest rates the govts...Fractional Reserve banking