Anti-christ / Syria and Iraq / ISIS

As of today, ISIS controls chunks of land between Syria and Iraq, where they established what they call an Islamic Caliphate.

There is a hadith teaching that the anti-christ would "appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left."

Perhaps, to appear on "the way" between Syria and Iraq means to appear while events are developing in that region.

IIRC I think its the first time in recent history that the 2 countries Syria and Iraq (or parts of) have been unified under one authority. What if this new ISIS controlled "state" is a sign that the anti-christ is about to make his presence known.... in the near future? On the way between Iraq and Syria?

#41

Isn't the antichrist meant to unite the world? Nobody civilized would willingly follow anyone or anything to do with this dirty, dusty, filthy unclean rabble.

I heard ISIS is just one group, and the anti christ are those on the other side, there is no neutral...

Any sources for the Hadith teaching? I know i can use Google, but some people may be in a position whereby they cannot go actively researching during the perusal of this thread.

In looking at the actual statement, it would appear that the term could actually be referring to ISIS as the anti-Christ, rather than the harbinger of one:

"appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left."

When looking at the above in terms of ISIS, it is possible to claim that ISIS is the anti-Christ, as it has appeared among the current trouble of both, Syria and Iraq, and is mostly active on their border ("appear on the way between Syria and Iraq)." This would also fit with the latter part of the statement in that ISIS has been spreading 'mischief' right and left of the border....

With all this said, i don't consider ISIS to be the anti-Christ, nor its harbinger. My reasonings for this include:

1 - The 'Anti-Christ' is a mostly Christian concept, meaning that its very nature would probably not exist in the very same essence in the bible, as it would in the hadith.

2 - ISIS is opposed to all religions, including but not limited to Shia Islam, Judaism, and yes, Christianity. This indicates that they are not solely opposed to Christ, or act as a false prophet in regards to Christianity. The same can not possibly be said in regards to Islam, as they do attempt to draw Muslims away from traditional Islamic teachings, and may possibly be considered false prophets as a result.

3 - The actual statement itself is actually, mostly vague and cannot be conclusively attributed to any one event.

4 - The Middle-East has remained in strife for a lot of its existence following the establishment of the Abrahamic religions, meaning that this statement from the hadith could have applied to any number of events in the region, dating back thousands of years. Therefore, it is logical to conclude that the statement could also, just as likely, apply to any past or future event in the region.

originally posted by: reploid
As of today, ISIS controls chunks of land between Syria and Iraq, where they established what they call an Islamic Caliphate.

There is a hadith teaching that the anti-christ would "appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left."

Perhaps, to appear on "the way" between Syria and Iraq means to appear while events are developing in that region.

IIRC I think its the first time in recent history that the 2 countries Syria and Iraq (or parts of) have been unified under one authority. What if this new ISIS controlled "state" is a sign that the anti-christ is about to make his presence known.... in the near future? On the way between Iraq and Syria?

#41

Not sure your post is valid. ISIS do not control Syria or Iraq, so the two countries are not unified under one authority.

a reply to: reploid

I’ll explain this again.

Antichrist is a negative archetype that exists close in the lower soul in all ordinary fallen human beings. True religious practice overcomes this negative archetype which has to do with religious belief or even belief in any intellectual system.

When we first begin to believe any system whether its religion or communism we don’t know the reality of it because we are novices…belief hasn’t yet turned into experience so we are at first working on a theory—we have faith.

When believers try to go beyond this prematurely and pretend they have the experience only based on the dogma of the religion and not genuine spiritual experience and they try to impose that on others then they are in a state ( DAJJAL-ANTICHRIST)

There is the antichrist with a small a and an antichrist with a huge A

The Islamic word for it is Dajjal connoting fire and deception.

The big Antichrist Dajjal is the western nations and right now the small Dajjal trying to become a big Dajjal are the Islamists. They will loose and the big Dajjal will prevail that is the western nations.

Thta's as far as I will go for now...just keep this in mind
THEY DON'T CAL ME WILLTELL FOR NOTHING!

a reply to: Willtell

The big Antichrist Dajjal is the western nations and right now the small Dajjal trying to become a big Dajjal are the Islamists. They will loose and the big Dajjal will prevail that is the western nations.

I don't know about a big dajjal and a smal one.

However, I did mention in my thread here that Israel will get directly fight ISIS and WIN. They will then dominate the region during which time the Dajjal shows up.... around the Israeli controlled Syria/Iraq region that ISIS is present in now.


#43

a reply to: uncommitted

Not sure your post is valid. ISIS do not control Syria or Iraq, so the two countries are not unified under one authority.

I said the 2 countries Syria and Iraq (or parts of) have been unified under one authority. Parts of.....I never said ISIS controls the whole of the 2 countries.

The Hadith just mentions a "way" between Syria and Iraq. Isis controls regions between Iraq and Syria to constitute a "way" or path between the 2 countries.

#44

originally posted by: daaskapital

"appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left."

With all this said, i don't consider ISIS to be the anti-Christ, nor its harbinger. My reasonings for this include:

nO ISIS ARE NOT the anti-christ. I simply meant that the hadith says the AC would show up on the way between Iraq and Syria...seeing how Syria and Iraq under ISIS is making news right now, Im guessing it has some kind of prophetic sigicifcance.

#45

originally posted by: reploid
a reply to: uncommitted

Not sure your post is valid. ISIS do not control Syria or Iraq, so the two countries are not unified under one authority.

I said the 2 countries Syria and Iraq (or parts of) have been unified under one authority. Parts of.....I never said ISIS controls the whole of the 2 countries.

The Hadith just mentions a "way" between Syria and Iraq. Isis controls regions between Iraq and Syria to constitute a "way" or path between the 2 countries.

#44

So in other words they are not unified. Al Qaeda operates in many countries, it doesn't mean much apart from that a terrorist group operates in them.

a reply to: reploid

When that one shows its face many in that region WILL be upset for their deeds as 1 does not think it cares for religious influence when out of control more then its primary agendas globally. Fortunately when that one shows the other isn't far or here already (waiting) OP... destabilization opens its access consider all the innocent blood shed in between these activities and the many SOULS transferred making larger portal access each time

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: reploid
a reply to: uncommitted

Not sure your post is valid. ISIS do not control Syria or Iraq, so the two countries are not unified under one authority.

I said the 2 countries Syria and Iraq (or parts of) have been unified under one authority. Parts of.....I never said ISIS controls the whole of the 2 countries.

The Hadith just mentions a "way" between Syria and Iraq. Isis controls regions between Iraq and Syria to constitute a "way" or path between the 2 countries.

#44

So in other words they are not unified. Al Qaeda operates in many countries, it doesn't mean much apart from that a terrorist group operates in them.

No they are not.

My point was that the Hadith speaks of Dajjal "appearing on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left." Nothing that Syria and Iraq being unified completely.

The land that ISIS controls between Iraq and Syria is enough to qualify for "the way between Syria and Iraq" as mentioned in the Hadith.

#47

Posted this in a previous thread, I believe it is exactly what we are looking at in the ME ATM.

Plausible explanation of the end-times.

and:

Walid Shoebat

Clicks with what's going on down in that area of the World. ISIS, according to Wiki, means 'throne.' Who's throne? The Anti-Christ. To the OP, NO, ISIS is NOT the AC, it is the BRIDE, and the THRONE from which he will rule. ISIS is the bride of Anti-Christ, as the followers of Yeshua, are his bride.

a reply to: daaskapital

1 - The 'Anti-Christ' is a mostly Christian concept, meaning that its very nature would probably not exist in the very same essence in the bible, as it would in the hadith.

Don't know what the hadith is. However, I am also sure that the AC doesn't care if you think he is a Christian concept of not, as a matter of fact, he would rather you NOT believe.

2 - ISIS is opposed to all religions, including but not limited to Shia Islam, Judaism, and yes, Christianity. This indicates that they are not solely opposed to Christ, or act as a false prophet in regards to Christianity. The same can not possibly be said in regards to Islam, as they do attempt to draw Muslims away from traditional Islamic teachings, and may possibly be considered false prophets as a result.

Links to sources? Otherwise, I will stick to the evidence of them wearing the symbology of Islam to mean that they are, indeed, Islamic.

3 - The actual statement itself is actually, mostly vague and cannot be conclusively attributed to any one event.

Not sure which statement your referring to here. In the end, you cannot take one incident as corroboration. You have to look at the area as a whole.

imho...ad-Dajjal is more an anti-Mahdi, not an anti-Christ. Christ is mostly irrelevant in Muslim prophecy. I believe He comes back as a sidekick to al-Mahdi.
al-Mahdi is more like the Christian anti-Christ.

www.answering-islam.org...

"As we have seen from the Islamic traditions and Muslim scholars, the Mahdi, like the Antichrist, is also prophesied to be a political and military world leader unparalleled by any other throughout world history. The Mahdi is said to “fight against the forces of evil, lead a world revolution and set up a new world order based on justice, righteousness and virtue.” 1 At this time, according to Islamic tradition, the Mahdi is said to preside over the entire earth as the final Caliph of Islam. And of course as we saw in the last chapter, the Muslims will, “take the world administration in their hands and Islam will be victorious over all the religions.” Without question, Islam views the Mahdi as one whose rule will extend over all of the earth. Clearly then, we see that the Antichrist and the Mahdi are both described as being political and military leaders the likes of which the world has never before seen. While many powerful leaders have arisen throughout world history, the descriptions given concerning both the Antichrist and the Mahdi surpass any that have yet arisen. But the Mahdi and the Antichrist are both described as being more than merely political and military leaders. They are both viewed as being supreme religious leaders as well."

a reply to: reploid

According to Daniel 9:27 the Antichrist will "confirm a covenant" for a seven year period, and this will be the event that starts the seven year period that most Christians wrongly refer to as the Tribulation. The Tribulation is actually only the first half of that 7 year period, but that is a discussion for a different day. Anyway, the most popular opinion of this passage is that Israel will have a peace agreement with the Muslim world, or perhaps only a portion of it, and whomever it is that resides over those proceedings is the Antichrist.

He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

It is also thought that this will be the time that the Jews are allowed to worship on the Temple Mount again, be it in a rebuilt temple or some sort of altar. This is evident in that the daily sacrifice of animals will start once again, but at the midpoint of the seven year period the Antichrist will cease the sacrifices and proclaim himself to be God, which is what the "Abomination of Desolation" is. The rapture is shortly after this.

Having said that, as with virtually all end times prophecy, there is a dual meaning... one that is near term, and one that is far off. This prophecy was fulfilled once already in 167 BC when Antiochus Epiphanes laid siege to Jerusalem, declared himself to be God and set up a false image in the temple. He also sacrificed pigs and other unclean animals on the holy altar. This lasted 3 1/2 years until the Maccabean revolt defeated him and ended it... this is why Jews celebrate Hanukkah.

a reply to: reploid


Jesus represents more of the esoteric. The Mahdi represents the perfect merging of the esoteric and exoteric. That’s my personal take on it

Many scholars say Jesus is the Mahdi.

It’s all a matter of opinion. There is nothing conclusive here.

This comes from traditions and they are not like the Koran.

The only one the Koran says is coming in verse 27/82 is Dabbat Al Ard

a reply to: works4dhs

gives a new meaning to

"but to sit on my right hand,
and on my left, is not mine to give,
but it shall be given to them
for whom it is prepared of
my Father."

interesting.

Not sure what I believe, what if one of the religions IS the anti Christ ?

a reply to: Enlighten3d

The antichrist is meant to unite everyone earth - I can't see any current religion doing that.