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Sen. Durbin: Obama Will 'Borrow the Power' to Solve Immigration

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posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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There is no such thing as borrowing power. Power used is power spent. Spent power cannot be recovered. That is the reason the Constitution was set up in such a way that the 3 branches of "power" could balance and keep any one branch from becoming rogue. The founders could not conceive of a time when the American people would put so many anti-Americans in office that the balance of power would become executive,judicial,legislative branch on one side and the sleeping people on the other. At this point in time the people have no representation in any branch of government and all three branches are rogue and dictating and using not borrowed but stolen power.




posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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It is so easy to deport these people that it boggles the mind we are not doing it now. Make it illegal to hire them and stop all entitlements today. Within a week there wont be any illegals here and it wont cost a dime getting rid of them. A half dozen ceo's spending a year in prison will stop the hiring in it's tracks. Stopping entitlements is even easier.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: Daedalus



i see plenty of rhetoric from you too...like, for instance, your unwillingness to say "you(daedalus) are a biased, ignorant, racist asshole"...we both know you're talking about me, without actually talking about me...so let's quit pussyfooting, ok?


Well, that's not an example of rhetoric...but whatever. Considering that it's ATS policy to go after the ball and not the player, it would not be wise to say such a thing whether I believe it or not. In fact, I was not actually referring to you specifically. There have been a few people in this thread that have made it seem like they may not like Mexicans.

Biased.....aren't we all?
Ignorant....most likely
Racist.....possibly



what I am saying, isn't motivated by ignorance, or "racism"*, it's motivated by first-hand experience with what these people bring with them, and what they do when they get here...

the kind of lawless, disrespectful people who violate our borders on a daily basis, are not the kind of people we need here.


That's funny because I deal with immigrants daily. My entire staff consists of Mexican immigrants. I'd like to know what these people "bring with them" and what they do when they get here. There may be some bad apples in the bunch, but my experience shows me that what they bring with them is their kids.....and when they get here, they work.

So what are you referring to?



obviously, you disagree...so what is your alternative?


I don't know what the answer is, frankly. I do know that execution seems to be, well, a stupid thing to say. I have to question the morality and intelligence of someone that wants to solve the immigration issue by just killing em.

If execution seems reasonable to you.....get some help. Seriously. You or others may be a threat to society at some point and I hope you aren't teaching your children such barbaric crap.



additionally, i noticed you completely ignored my other posts to you....i can only assume that your lack of reply is a quiet concession of the associated points...


I'm sorry, could you point me to the post you want me to reply to? I must have missed it.



there is no racism


Very well, let's call it hatred for people of other cultures or colors out of ignorance and stupidity.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Once again, great information. But it still does not touch on the topic at hand.

Thanks anyway.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein


people will forget about this by tomorrow


Like the VA scandal?

Notice how this immigration problem and ISIS kinda made it all go away?



what's wrong with you....does everyone need to be outraged every friggin' day????.....people don't forget, they simply have other things they have to do in their lives.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: guohua

You make the assumption that just because some of us disagree with you or others on immigration that we must support Obama?

I can't speak for others, but I do not support Obama at all. I'm happy being in my own category where I have flexibility to form my own opinions outside of party rhetoric and blind allegiance.

I also know enough to understand that Obama is not the almighty dictator or the US. We have an entire congress that has the power to push legislation in to law even if Obama vetos it.

Why isn't congress doing something? Well, that's because they know that you can't simply deport every illegal immigrant. That's one reason why Reagan granted amnesty back in the 80's.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 02:27 PM
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a reply to: tmeister182

no, because a lot of them still sell drugs..and the ones who don't will either turn to selling drugs, or robbing people..



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: sheepslayer247
Well, that's not an example of rhetoric...but whatever. Considering that it's ATS policy to go after the ball and not the player, it would not be wise to say such a thing whether I believe it or not. In fact, I was not actually referring to you specifically. There have been a few people in this thread that have made it seem like they may not like Mexicans.


sure it is...it's a twist on the "if you don't agree with me, you're a racist" card..



Biased.....aren't we all?


Perhaps, to varying degrees...


Ignorant....most likely


nope, sorry..


Racist.....possibly


nope, sorry..


That's funny because I deal with immigrants daily. My entire staff consists of Mexican immigrants. I'd like to know what these people "bring with them" and what they do when they get here. There may be some bad apples in the bunch, but my experience shows me that what they bring with them is their kids.....and when they get here, they work.

So what are you referring to?


and i asked you in this post what industry that might be....big surprise, you never answered.

you keep talking about how you work with immigrants....are they here legally or not?

additionally, in this post, i explained what it's like living around illegals.....big surprise, you ignored that one too...



I don't know what the answer is, frankly.


ok, so then if you don't know what the answer IS, how can you have any sense of what the answer ISN'T?



I do know that execution seems to be, well, a stupid thing to say.


and yet you have no alternative you would like to share with the class...i'd say THAT's stupid....i mean seriously, if you have someone who's a repeat offender, and is going to keep coming back, no matter how many times you kick them out, how do you solve that, without rewarding them for their offenses? really think on that..



I have to question the morality and intelligence of someone that wants to solve the immigration issue by just killing em.


and i hafta question the morality and intelligence of someone who can so grossly oversimplify things like that...

i never said i want to solve immigration by just killing them...because that doesn't solve immigration, that solves a small part of it....i'm not opposed to immigration, i've said that before...i'm just opposed to ILLEGAL immigration...

see, unlike a lot of folks here, i don't burden my mind with silly politically correct nonsense....i look at a problem, from many different angles, come up with the most efficient and effective solution, and then i present that solution, no matter how controversial it may be....it's not because "i hate mexicans", or "i don't like non-white people"...it's nothing to do with that....they're technically committing an act of war against the united states...they are foreign invaders. i'm saying we round them up, and we send them home...there's a record of them being deported, and they're not elligible for a visa, so if they wanna come back, they hafta apply for citizenship....if they come back illegally, they get caught, they get convicted, and they get executed....so it's not a matter of just killing them...it's sending them home, and giving them a chance to do it right...if they still choose to break the law, well, there's no helping them...

that's pure logic, unencumbered by PC doublethink....



If execution seems reasonable to you.....get some help. Seriously. You or others may be a threat to society at some point and I hope you aren't teaching your children such barbaric crap.


read the above explanation....YOU need help..



I'm sorry, could you point me to the post you want me to reply to? I must have missed it.


oh, how about this one?

or maybe this one?

oh hell, how about most of the posts addressed to you from me on this entire page



Very well, let's call it hatred for people of other cultures or colors out of ignorance and stupidity.


oh, you mean bigotry?



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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here's another one...

in this scenario, the part of the grasshopper is played by the entitlement crowd, and pretty much every illegal, ever...



only, they never seem to learn the lesson that the grasshopper in the cartoon learns...



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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Why isn't congress doing something? Well, that's because they know that you can't simply deport every illegal immigrant. That's one reason why Reagan granted amnesty back in the 80's.

a reply to: sheepslayer247
That's easy, it's the Democrats, their doing the same thing they did in 1986, except then, they had control of the Congress.

In the debates leading up to the 1986 IRCA, a sizable minority in Congress opposed any amnesty until the border was under control. They were overridden. The results were that the amnesty gave legal status to some 300,000 to 400,000 who had entered the U.S. illegally and claimed it fraudulently.

Mostly Republicans, They were Overridden by Guess Who?
Now look at the damage economically.

The federal government began legalizing almost three million illegal aliens 10 years ago, on May 5, 1987, wary of the fiscal liabilities of opening more public assistance programs to a population with high needs and low taxpaying power.

To ease the burden on the states, Washington closed some programs to the newly legalized for five years and reimbursed the states nearly $3.5 billion for some of their aid costs.

Was the concern of Congress, the White House, and many state and local leaders justified? A review of the evidence a decade later confirms that legalization indeed carried a high fiscal price tag — a total 10-year cost of $78.7 billion — with the indirect and downstream costs still accumulating. In the ten-year period ending in 1996, the amnestied population:


Accounted for an estimated $102.1 billion costs in current dollars in twenty federal, state, and local assistance programs and services.

Paid total taxes of $78 billion, for a ten-year fiscal deficit of $24 billion in the public assistance and services portion of the budget.
These are estimates of the direct costs only. There were, and will continue to be, significant indirect costs associated with the legalization of 2.7 million persons:




In ten years the United States has paid out $156.7 billion for the direct and indirect costs of the legalized population, but has received a little more than half that back in taxes — $78 billion. That figure would be substantially higher if expressed in 1996 dollars. The total fiscal deficit of $78.7 billion amounts to a government subsidy to each member of the 1987 legalized population of $29,148.



The legalized population has generated costs indirectly through displacement from jobs of U.S. residents, through the U.S. citizen children it creates, and through the undocumented minor children it brings to the United States.

Job Displacement: Displacement occurs when the addition of unskilled workers to a labor market causes employed workers to be laid off, work shorter hours or fewer weeks a year, spend longer periods of time in job searches, move to another labor market, or drop out of the labor force altogether. Wage depression is also often a result of the influx of low-expectation workers into an area. This study does not attempt to measure the wage depressing effects of amnestied workers, though falling wages can often be the trigger for replacement of established workers with less demanding newcomers.



The amnestied population brought little human capital. By 1992, just 36 percent of amnestied adults reported being able to speak English well. The figure for the Mexican majority was only 27 percent.

Only 28 percent of the legalized aliens over 24 were high school graduates, compared to 78 percent of native U.S. Hispanics; 55 percent of the amnesty adults had never eyen entered high school. Average wages for those legalized by the general amnesty working in private sector non-farm jobs in 1992 were nearly 16% lower than the national average.



In the ten years since amnesty the legalized population has received direct government benefits in 20 programs worth $102.1 billion, but paid total taxes of only $78 billion. Indirect costs associated with the legalized population such as job displacement and assistance and services to their minor children had reached $54.6 billion by the end of 1996. The total fiscal deficit on all direct and indirect costs is for the decade is $78.7 billion.

OK, Like we Really Need this Drain / Strain on or Economy at Today's Costs 2014, remember this report is from 1997.
Go back and look for yourself, the problem, they did do what was Promised, Closed The Border, Punish Employers and Just Plan Enforce Our Laws,,,,Actually the Most Human of Most Ant Nation When it Comes to illegals.
Reform

edit on 2-7-2014 by guohua because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: Daedalus



sure it is...it's a twist on the "if you don't agree with me, you're a racist" card..


I brought up the term racist based on some of the comments on this thread and the tone of their posts. It's an assumption, I admit it, but I'm definitely not using the term because you don't agree with me. I hate it when people just toss out the term in an attempt to discredit another person. As a matter of fact, if you have ever paid attention to my posts on ATS this is probably the first and only time I have ever brought up racism in a thread. So I would not fit in to that "if you don't agree with me, you're a racist"category.



and i asked you in this post what industry that might be....big surprise, you never answered.


I work in the Foodservice industry.



you keep talking about how you work with immigrants....are they here legally or not


I don't know. The law, and you seem to be a rule-of-law type of person, states that as long as a person has the proper documentation we are not allowed to question their citizenship. Doing so can lead to discrimination charges. There have been a few changes to the system in place to check for fraudulent SS#'s, but it's still not that great.

And I'd like to note that I do not hire immigrants exclusively. I've had people of all walks of life come through here but the Mexican people are the only one's that seem to stick around. I think it's a culture thing. They see the value in hard work, loyalty and dedication. For some reason my US born employees do not and move on fairly quickly. All of the people I have now have been with me for over 10 years. Great group of ladies.



and yet you have no alternative you would like to share with the class


I don't know what the best answer would be, no. It's better to admit that than to come up with some uninformed answer and try to pass it off like I know what I'm talking about. I have ideas, but they still need to be worked on.



and they get executed


I'm sorry. Only repeat offenders would be executed? Well, that makes it ok, doesn't it?

"I'm sorry Jose. I know you were just trying to get in to the US to make a life for yourself and provide for your family, and you are not a violent criminal....but you are a repeat offender of our border policy and now you must be put to death"

If you do not have the critical thinking skills and moral compass to see how utterly insane that is, then I do not expect a this conversation to be productive whatsoever. On all the time I've spent on ATS, I don't recall anyone ever advocating death for something so small as crossing the border too many times.

I call it barbaric and stupid. You call it logic? Well thank god that even those morons in DC aren't dumb enough to advocate for that sort of policy. Otherwise we would be killing everyone for one reason or another.



oh, how about this one?


Sorry, I sort of blew that post off because it's not feasible and not going to happen. We cannot expect to stuff millions of immigrants in to planes, ship em back home, and then ask the US taxpayer to cover the costs. It doesn't seem logical in any way.



what tax base? they're not paying taxes...and the money is leaving the country anyway...if anything, it will only IMPROVE the economy, as then we can have actual citizens doing the jobs, and paying taxes...


They do pay taxes. An employer is required to take taxes out of their checks, unless they get a 1099. If they are using a stolen SS#, they do not file taxes. Therefore anything they paid beyond the tax amount owed stays in the government coffers.



Yup. you don't get to profit, or prosper from committing a crime. return them home in the same state they arrived here...


Fair enough. To me, that pretty much equates to theft. Only thing worse than a liar is a thief, in my opinion.



Fair is fair....check everyone.


Ok, what criteria do we set to decide who must leave? How far back to we go? Do we recognize the Reagan amnesty and the Dream act, or do we go back further than that? Since you are a rule of law kind of person and want to stand firm on principle, should we go back and look in to how all of our families came to this country. If your grandfather came here illegally, should you be sent back to where they came from?

As a matter of fact, since we are standing on rule of law and principle here, shouldn't we all be sent back to our home countries considering that this land was not "ours" to begin with? In one way or another, unless your Native American, we are all illegal immigrants.

Save me a spot on the immigrant flight back home, will ya? I'll bring the snacks.



that being said...it's pretty easy to spot an illegal. or at least the worst ones are easy to spot...but still, check everyone.


Wait. Now there are varying degrees of illegal immigrants, at least enough to say that some are worse than others, and you can spot them? Bravo. I read your description of how you tell what an illegal looks like...and to me it sounds like every redneck I've seen that lives on the east side.

And I have to ask, did you ask them about their citizenship status or are you just making an assumption based on their choice of music, language or skin color? Not calling you a racist, it's a serious question.



there is a massive difference between deporting illegal aliens


That was not in reference to deportation. That is in reference to your awesome "execution if they come back" policy.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

It's really no use, you are talking to a person who seriously thinks that they can do this to a state:



This is a person that thinks they are living in a cartoon.

The repercussions of their plan of genocide doesn't compute in their head.



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 05:15 PM
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a reply to: guohua

Ahh, it's the Democrats fault. Sure...that's the answer. Let's blame one side and ignore the fact that the Republicans are purposely dragging their feet and not doing jack squat.

They are both to blame for their inaction.

And by the way, you do realize that the 1986 amnesty bill was a bipartisan bill endorsed and sponsored by democrats and republicans, right?



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: HauntWok

lol..i'm curious how it is you eneded up with a condition that made you blind, but still able to type, and completely immune to intelligence, common sense, or rational thought..

i look forward to the day they ban you for your deliberate density, trolling, and baiting..
edit on 7-2-2014 by Daedalus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 05:51 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

i'll type up a proper reply later...i've been at this for HOURS, and my fingers are starting to hurt...stupid hobby lobby thread...



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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a reply to: Daedalus

No need. I believe we have taken this about as far as I would like to. Take a break and enjoy the rest of your day.

If you have nothing to do later, I would be honored if you would be able to tune in to the show that myself and some of our fellow members put on. We will be talking about a lot of issues tonight that you would probably enjoy.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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And by the way, you do realize that the 1986 amnesty bill was a bipartisan bill endorsed and sponsored by democrats and republicans, right?

a reply to: sheepslayer247
Please!!!!
Where do you get your Sources or who do you listen to?
Please give me a source. Thank You.

Those hopes were a major factor in the passage of IRCA. Another factor was the simple desire to end the long fight, to declare victory and go home. Lungren observed that “some people were just exhausted.”41 Said Mazzoli: “I think everyone wants to get something done.”42 The bill passed just before midnight, by a vote of 230-166. The tally showed 168 Democrats and 62 Republicans in favor, with 61 Democrats and 105 Republicans opposed.



In 1986 Congress finally did pass a bill — just barely — in October. A few weeks later, as President Reagan signed it into law, he hailed it as “the product of one of the longest and most difficult legislative undertakings of recent memory.



At one point in the 1986 debate, when the debate appeared to be deadlocked and the bill was declared dead, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Peter Rodino (D-N.J.) pleaded for action in tones that have often been heard among the Gang of Eight senators who engineered the immigration bill that passed the Senate in June.

1986
The biggest problem is, they need to seal the border, close it, build a new Canal similar to the Panama Canal or something, but they need to close the border.
edit on 2-7-2014 by guohua because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: sheepslayer247

yeah, i know, including the immigration thing....

dude, are you gonna call me a stupid racist asshole on air?

i'd seriously tune in for that, lolz



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 06:42 PM
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OUR GOVERNMENT IS RUNNING HUMAN TRAFFICKING RINGS. HELLO PEOPLE -- THIS HAS GOT TO STOP



posted on Jul, 2 2014 @ 06:53 PM
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a reply to: Daedalus

No. We try to stick to T and C's the best we can...and I'm not the kind of guy to say that anyway.

edit on 7/2/2014 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



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