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Hobby Lobby wins Supreme Court case, limits the ACA contraception mandate

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posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:03 AM
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originally posted by: Daedalus
terminating a pregnancy is an elective thing..like plastic surgery...

sure, there are situations where it NEEDS to happen, like if the pregnancy is a threat to the life of the mother, or something like that...but if you're just doing it because you don't feel like having a kid...well, that's too bad. either don't have the sex next time, pay for the procedure yourself, or...here's an original one..accept the consequences of your actions, and live with it...you can always put the kid up for adoption if you REALLY don't wanna be a mom THAT bad...

i'm all about choice...up to a point.

you can make whatever choice you want, just don't ask me to pay for it.


So you realize there are different situations and different options requiring different choices for different people. That's good. Yet, you think Business owners should have more power in making those choices than the people actually involved with making them and/or the consequences of them.

If it's all about choice then it would seem the more choices the better. Nobody said anyone has to choose them either just because they're there. But in either case I would say that choice, whatever it is should at least be done by those directly involved.




posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:08 AM
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From what I see is that 20 forms of contraception are mandated by Obama care. Hobby Lobby did not want to provide 4 of them but will provide for others threw insurance. As far as taxpayers paying for peoples contraception we have been doing that for quite some time that and many other things we don't agree with. As far as mandates go. its like if I go into a store and they make ME buy something I don't want and tell ME its for my own good. Really? They also based their decision on a law that was signed by Clinton and Dems along with Reps. I could be wrong.....wouldnt be the first time.


edit on 1-7-2014 by Tarzan the apeman. because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:08 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

and nobody is saying they can't make that choice, and nobody is making it for them...they're just saying what i say

"you can make whatever choice you want, just don't ask me to pay for it"



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:11 AM
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originally posted by: Daedalus

lol, nice logic leap there...did i even imply that's what i think?


I don't know. It kinda seemed like it, ya. Well then what were you implying??? That you're ok with the Government Stealing your money for some things but not when they steal it for other things???



what did ignore?


All the other stuff the Government spends you money on that they steal from you just like they steal the money for Health Care.



what children are we waging war on?


The ones that we call collateral damage while we drop bombs on their country.



nope, because they're brown.

i don't think that way, but a lot of people do....it's brown people in a brown country, that speak a brown language....out of sight, out of mind..


So you clearly understood where I was going with that question. Good reply too. That was funny. So do you not think that is a valid question for me to ask??? Maybe not to you directly but in general, you can see what I'm saying right??



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:21 AM
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There are some people posting in this thread screaming that Hobby Lobby is evil against women because it refuses to pay for four abortificants and/or that they'll boycott blah blah blah .... this note is for them ...

Hobby Lobby is a very good company to work for. It pays it's full time employees twice the minimum wage. So when people scream 'boycott' because Hobby Lobby won't pay for four abortificants ... you people are actually trying to hurt a company that takes good care of it's employees.

Hobby Lobby Pays TWICE the Minimum Wage



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:24 AM
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So, my religion states that providing any insurance at all is an affront to my God, and offends my morals. Also, minimum wage is the devil.

I believe there will be many Corporations who follow my religion.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:27 AM
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originally posted by: amazing
Their, Hobby Lobby's, religions beliefs trump the law. .

Wrong. Hobby Lobby's religious beliefs are PROTECTED by the law. Protected by the Constitution. You people trying to take away the rights of Hobby Lobby are the ones who are trying to 'trump the law'.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:29 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw




In the US NO ONE is forced to work for anyone they don't want to work for


Yes, and unless you're lucky enough to have another job lined up, you're free to starve and lose your house or apartment if you do. It's great to live in 'Merika!


Until we are slaves to our employers or to the government we are free to leave any job.


I'm sure that's what the slaves thought thousands of years ago, too. They just had different consequences for insolence.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
I don't know. It kinda seemed like it, ya. Well then what were you implying??? That you're ok with the Government Stealing your money for some things but not when they steal it for other things???


you should know by now that nothing at ATS is quite what it seems...

no, i don't agree with the government stealing ANY money from me...and while i believe taxes are necessary, i also believe that the current system is hopelessly broken, and desperately NEEDS to be restructured, in order to better serve the people.

no, i don't think there should be an income tax, because the government has absolutely no business helping itself to money it didn't work for...social security is a scam...i'll never see that money again. it's all B.S.

but this is off-topic..



All the other stuff the Government spends you money on that they steal from you just like they steal the money for Health Care.


no i didn't...i simply chose not to address it, as it's not the subject of the thread...





The ones that we call collateral damage while we drop bombs on their country.


we're not waging war on them...they're not (usually) the target....and i strongly disagree with the circumstances currently in existence that allow for there to be such "collateral damage"..but again, this is a discussion for another thread..



So you clearly understood where I was going with that question. Good reply too. That was funny. So do you not think that is a valid question for me to ask??? Maybe not to you directly but in general, you can see what I'm saying right??


i see what you're saying, but it's a discussion for another thread...



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:31 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

It's not the Business Model or Pay that they are complaining about. It's the BS reasoning and claims being made on their side of the argument that people don't like.

If the employee chooses to have an abortion on their own, they'll pay for it from the money they make from working at Hobby Lobby anyway meaning that Hobby Lobby will still be paying for it as indirectly as they were before this case. So the logic fails in that argument. The only difference is that now the employee has to spend more to do it than they would if it was covered and it's more of a hassle for them. This is just a way for some people to push others to make certain choices over others by claiming Religious Reasons. Even when those choices don't include them and people are just fed up with the Religious Views of Other People dictating the lives of others who may not even have the same Religious beliefs. It's the insistence upon Others Beliefs invading the Lives of others which is the heart of this.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan


Wrong. Hobby Lobby's religious beliefs are PROTECTED by the law. Protected by the Constitution. You people trying to take away the rights of Hobby Lobby are the ones who are trying to 'trump the law'.


Wrong. Hobby Lobby's owners religious beliefs are enforced on their surfdom. A company can NOT have religious beliefs because they do not physically exist. Contrary to what the Citizens United ruling said, companies are not really people. Otherwise most of them would have been killed or would be in prison suffering excruciating tortures.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:38 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
It's not the Business Model or Pay that they are complaining about. It's the BS reasoning and claims being made on their side of the argument that people don't like.


and a lot of that, is borne of complete ignorance...

as shown in this thread, there are quite a few people, too stupid to read past the headline, proving once again, that it's easy as pie for the MSM to manipulate the dumb masses...

people believe that HL is trying to keep people from having ANY access to ANY contraceptives.....which isn't the case.

if people were more intelligent, and better informed, i doubt this would be a thing...



If the employee chooses to have an abortion on their own, they'll pay for it from the money they make from working at Hobby Lobby anyway meaning that Hobby Lobby will still be paying for it as indirectly as they were before this case. So the logic fails in that argument. The only difference is that now the employee has to spend more to do it than they would if it was covered and it's more of a hassle for them. This is just a way for some people to push others to make certain choices over others by claiming Religious Reasons. Even when those choices don't include them and people are just fed up with the Religious Views of Other People dictating the lives of others who may not even have the same Religious beliefs. It's the insistence upon Others Beliefs invading the Lives of others which is the heart of this.


once the money is paid to the employee, it is no longer the company's money, and they have no say on what it's spent on...there is a difference between an employee using their own money to do something, and the company being made to pay beyond what they pay the employee, to subsidize behavior/activities/items they disagree with....it'd be like if the federal government came in and told my employer that they were required to buy me cigarettes, or whiskey, or crack....and they had to provide these things IN ADDITION to what they are already paying me...



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:50 AM
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a reply to: Daedalus

Hobby Lobby also invests in some of the Companies that actually make those very same drugs they don't want to pay for too. But that seems to be lost in the shuffle too.

Also, I never said they were keeping them away from all choices. I know exactly which four they are talking about.

Once the money is paid to the Insurance companies or whoever it's paid to, it's no longer their money also so there isn't a difference there either. It's not like they give the money directly to the Dr. or the pharmacy, so I don't see the point.

Again, it's just trying to wiggle around and make excuses to make it seem like it's something that it's not.

Again, nobody is requiring anything. They pay into a system that has many options. Nobody must choose one option over another or even choose one at all. They are just there if someone wants to choose them. Hobby Lobby shouldn't have the right to dictate what those choices are because it's not their business. It's the business of the Person making the choice, period.

If they want to dictate the choices of what birth control is available to people, then they should be health providers instead of Art suppliers.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

Why do you guys care so much about whose responsibility it is, exactly? Regardless of whose responsibility it is, the government has a vested interest in the population not increasing. Even if it isn't the government's responsibility, it is for the good of society that population growth is curbed.



originally posted by: Destinyone

As a Woman, I can tell you. BC and any reason a person may need it is NOT the responsibility of government. Nor should it be a burden on the taxpayers.


I had no idea people could have omniscience. For someone who knows every possible reason that someone could require birth control, your attitude seems very rigid. The fact that you call something a burden does not in any way change the benefits that comes from it. School is a burden on the taxpayers. Do the costs that come from not having a publicly funded schooling system outweigh the costs of having an illiterate population?

Do the costs of emergency services outweigh the costs of countless deaths that would otherwise occur?

It would cost the company a lot more in medicare down the road if the woman had the child than if it was just aborted. It would also cost the government a lot more down the road.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 05:58 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
It's the BS reasoning and claims being made on their side of the argument that people don't like.

The US Constitution promising freedom of religion is 'BS reasoning'??

If the employee chooses to have an abortion on their own, they'll pay for it from the money they make from working at Hobby Lobby anyway meaning that Hobby Lobby will still be paying for it as indirectly

No Hobby Lobby isn't indirectly paying for the abortions. What a person does with the money they earn is all on the person .. not on the employer.

people are just fed up with the Religious Views of Other People dictating the lives of others who may not even have the same Religious beliefs.

Hobby Lobby not paying for four abortificants in no way 'dictates the lives of others'. Those women are still free to go get their abortificants elsewhere. HOWEVER, it seems that those against this rule are the ones who are trying to dictate the lives of others .... dictate that 'Freedom of Religion' in the Constititution isn't a real promise of freedom in this country.

It's the insistence upon Others Beliefs invading the Lives of others which is the heart of this.

Yes ... it's the beliefs of those against this ruling that is invading the lives of those running Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby has the Constitution in their favor. Those who insist that Hobby Lobby pay for abortificants are not respecting the Constitution. THEY are the ones invading the lives and rights of others.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 06:02 AM
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a reply to: Surefire

My religion states that anyone whose religion states that providing insurance is an affront to their god is an affront to my god and therefore needs to be killed.

By making laws stopping me from killing people, the government is violating my freedom of religion.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

I still disagree and I think we're just going in circles now anyway.

I'm a guy and won't ever need an abortion nor do I know anyone who works at Hobby Lobby either. Don't shop there, but do occasionally walk through to enjoy the air conditioning.

So I'll just disagree with you forever rather than continue this goofy argument any more.

I'll also continue to hold the close personal belief that you lost as well. Good night and thanks for all the fish.
edit on 1-7-2014 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: zackli
Hobby Lobby's owners religious beliefs are enforced on their surfdom.

Hyperbole.

1 - The Hobby Lobby family owners are in their constitutional right under freedom of religion.

2 - The workers aren't under 'surfdom'. That's absurd. Guess you didn't bother reading how Hobby Lobby voluntarily pays it's workers DOUBLE the minimum wage. They are an excellent company to work for.


Contrary to what the Citizens United ruling said, companies are not really people..

No dude. Closely owned companies are considered 'people' in the law.
Religious Freedoms Restoration Act. It's the law. Deal with it.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
I'll also continue to hold the close personal belief that you lost as well.

Your choice. I'll continue to hold the close personal belief that the Constitution is correct.

Good night and thanks for all the fish.

See ya' on Magrathea.



posted on Jul, 1 2014 @ 07:04 AM
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Hobby Lobby, et. al. has nothing to do with the Constitution ... read the ruling; it is entirely based on the flawed and unconstitutional RFRA.

It is a dire example of the political and ideological morass we find ourselves in this country.

The Constitution establishes rights for PEOPLE not LEGAL FICTIONS.

This claptrap will be reversed as soon as a reasonable and truly judicious Court is seated, probably into the next Presidential term.




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