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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SourGrapes
It's not birth control. Birth control is 'controlling oneself from getting pregnant'. Hobby Lobby wants to NOT participate in infanticide. They wish to NOT contribute to four forms of infant fetal murder.
This is a perfect example of bogus science retarding the mind of Americans. Birth control is not the same as self control. There is no application of birth control in ACA that "murders" infants or fetuses.
Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
originally posted by: Jason88
And on the day the law just took a hard turn to support religious racism at the office, this just in: "Hobby Lobby Still Covers Vasectomies And Viagra" Source: www.huffingtonpost.com...
Women everywhere with a shred of dignity just jumped off the GOP ship... if their husbands will let them.
Laura, we have no desire to take away women's rights, nor does the Green family have any desire to impose their beliefs on our employees. We currently cover 16 of 20 FDA-approved contraceptives as part of our comprehensive health care plan. The remaining four, which the Greens object to on the grounds that they may terminate life, are still readily available and our employees are free to obtain them. For more information about our case and why it's so important to us, please visit hobbylobbycase.com....
originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: nenothtu
Today is definitely special - we just gave corporate America religious rights when their charter is to make money.
No, I wouldn't want to work in an environment like that - at all. But since I work in corporate America and have to provide for a large family, I'm not thrilled that owners of companies I may *have* to work for now have grounds to fire me because I don't adhere to their version of religion.
That, and I have daughters and wife - I really detest the door this decision (precedent) just opened to make their lives more difficult in the US. And I'm a fracking Christian - an okay one too (I think).
originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: thesaneone
I think it's solid to remind ourselves about freedom, and that we provide to women in the US - who yet again are being dictated to by insecure men.
Disposing of a pregnancy AFTER conception is murder. You can believe what you want, and saying it over and over doesn't make what you believe true.
Birth control pills, condoms, and other forms of CONTROL prevent pregnancy. Isn't that enough?
originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: Dfairlite
You're right - the GOP doesn't control Hobby Lobby but like Chick Fila - it's the same messaging (talking points) and voters on the right they identify with. So the GOP is calling this a 'win', but I have a feeling by tomorrow morning - they're going to be distancing themselves from it.
originally posted by: moresco
a reply to: grey580
You nailed it right on the head grey580! I was reading through all the posts and replies and was about to interject the same thing.
This ruling sets a scary precedent. Walmart is a closely held family owned business. What if they convert to a religion that views cancer as their god's curse on mankind and that the only proper way to heal it is prayer? Can they now refuse to offer insurance plans that cover cancer preventative care and treatment?
originally posted by: SourGrapes
originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SourGrapes
It's not birth control. Birth control is 'controlling oneself from getting pregnant'. Hobby Lobby wants to NOT participate in infanticide. They wish to NOT contribute to four forms of infant fetal murder.
This is a perfect example of bogus science retarding the mind of Americans. Birth control is not the same as self control. There is no application of birth control in ACA that "murders" infants or fetuses.
Saying it over and over doesn't make it true.
Disposing of a pregnancy AFTER conception is murder. You can believe what you want, and saying it over and over doesn't make what you believe true.
ETA: Birth control pills, condoms, and other forms of CONTROL prevent pregnancy. Isn't that enough?
originally posted by: windword
a reply to: SourGrapes
So do Plan B and IUDs, and no, limiting options for some women and not others is NOT good enough.
originally posted by: Dfairlite
originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: thesaneone
I think it's solid to remind ourselves about freedom, and that we provide to women in the US - who yet again are being dictated to by insecure men.
I love this argument, the "if you aren't a woman you should have no say" argument. I guess doctors who haven't had AIDS or Cancer shouldn't have a say in their patients treatment. The argument smacks of stupidity. And again, women haven't been told anything by the US. In the US they can still purchase any contraceptives they want. In the US they can still get an abortion. But the fact that an employer can say "I'm not paying for that, it violates my beliefs" is somehow a negative reflection on the US? But it would be a positive reflection of the US if the government said "you have to do what we say, regardless of your beliefs"? You have some weird world views.
originally posted by: paleorchid13
I'm confused ..what are we arguing about than? I think HL wants to take away your birth control pills ....yeah, those diaphragms, condoms, contraceptive sponges, jellies /cream , rhythm methods are the most unreliable ..highest risk of failure rate birth control methods ....that's why they have plan b. A high dose contraceptive that prevents ovulation .....NOT the same as the RU486 pill ...people get it confused all the time.
originally posted by: paleorchid13
a reply to: nenothtu
Yes, you certainly have the right to eat sticks of butter, ice-cream and eat your cake too....
but when your arteries choke off your blood supply ...meh...wasn't it all your choice?
Why should you rack up HUGE, expensive medical bills in cardiac surgery ..rehab... when you brought in on yourself ?
Providing a medical screening, some advice...maybe a cholesterol reducing med ..may have prevented that huge medical bill ...but it was against my religion to provide you with preventative measures. Sorry ( I insert middle finger now)
"The cure for poverty has a name, in fact: it's called the empowerment of women. If you give women some control over the rate at which they reproduce, if you give them some say, take them off the animal cycle of reproduction to which nature and some doctrine—religious doctrine condemns them, and then if you'll throw in a handful of seeds perhaps and some credit, the floor of everything in that village, not just poverty, but education, health, and optimism will increase. It doesn't matter; try it in Bangladesh, try it in Bolivia, it works—works all the time. Name me one religion that stands for that, or ever has. Wherever you look in the world and you try to remove the shackles of ignorance and disease stupidity from women, it is invariably the clericy that stands in the way, or in the case of—now, furthermore, if you are going to grant this to Catholic charities, say, which I would hope are doing a lot of work in Africa, if I was a member of a church that had preached that AIDS was not as bad as condoms, I'd be putting some conscience money into Africa too, I must say." --Christopher Hitchens
originally posted by: Jason88
originally posted by: Dfairlite
originally posted by: Jason88
a reply to: thesaneone
I think it's solid to remind ourselves about freedom, and that we provide to women in the US - who yet again are being dictated to by insecure men.
I love this argument, the "if you aren't a woman you should have no say" argument. I guess doctors who haven't had AIDS or Cancer shouldn't have a say in their patients treatment. The argument smacks of stupidity. And again, women haven't been told anything by the US. In the US they can still purchase any contraceptives they want. In the US they can still get an abortion. But the fact that an employer can say "I'm not paying for that, it violates my beliefs" is somehow a negative reflection on the US? But it would be a positive reflection of the US if the government said "you have to do what we say, regardless of your beliefs"? You have some weird world views.
Please step away from the computer. You missed the point. Take emotion out of it. It's not about birth control. A law changed to allow corporations to have religious freedom. When you wife is denies a job at a company that believes woman should be home raising kids, then please reassess the words you choose to type. You are stepping on landmines right now.