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Hobby Lobby wins Supreme Court case, limits the ACA contraception mandate

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posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Ah! But see the difference is, anti-choicers HAVE actually fire bombed Planned Parenthood clinics, assaulted and even killed people. A tweet is still just a tweet.


edit on 30-6-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't pay a fine if I don't drive or vote.

Second line



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Pro-Abortion Activists Threaten to Burn Down Hobby Lobby Stores After SCOTUS Ruling

www.lifenews.com...




And yet the pro abortion groups are afraid of the pro lifers protesting in front of their murder stores.

I love tolerance.


The article quotes six Tweets sent by individuals on Twitter. Yet, that is conflated to "abortion activiists" and "pro abortion groups" because, hey, we don't have to worry anymore about actual facts, right?

Next it will be all liberals and then all Democrats that are threatening arson ... nothing like right-to-lifers and their sense of "the truth" eh?

Most of us just call that kind of thing lies. Or maybe, damned lies.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:49 PM
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Hyperbole? Most people who end up on a typical med-surge unit are usually non-compliant. Maybe we should shut it down? Who gets to pick and choose?

I'll look at those threads but giving insurance companies the right to take away basic, fundamental healthcare services is outrageous! It's like saying my religious beliefs are against colonosocopies , but I'll cover your colostomy bag. ???



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:49 PM
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originally posted by: Destinyone

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
Pro-Abortion Activists Threaten to Burn Down Hobby Lobby Stores After SCOTUS Ruling

www.lifenews.com...


Ahhh...the real socialists come crawling out of the woodwork. If I can't make you give to me, what I want, when I want it...I'll destroy you.

Yep...sounds like an Obama agenda. How is this any different than the old Weather Underground's agenda. Bill Ayers originally from SDS, and buddy to Obama. Coming full circle I see.

Des


Yup.

Looks like the Politburo transmitted instructions.

The Legions will now march !!



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:50 PM
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originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: Gryphon66

I don't pay a fine if I don't drive or vote.

Second line


So, you prove the exception to every rule? Okay.

Seems kind of self-centered if not solipsistic to me, but hey ...

Back in the real world, most people do drive. Many people would like to vote, and not have to pay for the privilege.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:51 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:51 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Six people now make a legion?

Wow.

(Talk about hyperbole ... )



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: xuenchen

I don't think we'd need to single payer through the government if suppliers were disallowed to gouge prices. Single people or families could just buy healthcare on their own.


Wellllll OK ...

just so everybody knows what we're dealing with.




posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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Making my list right now of all the issues my Christian religion has against the government spending my tax dollars.




posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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The problem with this case are battles of perspectives from anywhere from broad views to narrow views.

First off, I can agree and disagree with this ruling at the same time. I can somewhat agree with a "person" not liking the fact their coverage includes the ability to take pills that could induce abortions. I do not believe though that their is some religious right or directive to go against abortion. If one is a Right Wing Old Testament thumper of Christianity, then one can find many examples that God does not give two #s about unborn children or children in general if you want to compare quotes to the bible. The Right Wing New Testament types may have a bit of a problem, but I don't exactly see them trying to ban the death penalty.

I'm sure we can debate all day long on whether or not Obamacare/ACA is a good thing or bad. The fact of the matter is that our hospitals, our insurance companies, our drug makers, and medical equipment makes are almost all damn near profit driven, and almost all damn near corporations whose number one goal is make more and more money for its shareholders, all other objectives are secondary. This system is not sustainable and something will have change at some point, hopefully answers will reveal themselves eventually.

We are now at a stage where corporations can have an excuse not to follow a law. Argue all you want that the owners of a corporation can have their religious beliefs, but considering that the movement of shares of ownership can switch around in a blink of eye daily with our economic system, what's to stop the "Rich and Religious" from buying controlling ownerships of any and all corporations and dictating how we use our healthcare that is forced upon us anyway. This could also apply to many different religions or philosophies, including atheism. One can say that none of us are slaves and we can work anywhere we please, this is true for now. We are getting the point where religions can affect employment now.

If abortion is a sin, and a company is not mandated to provide coverage due to a religious belief, what's to stop a business from firing an employee who is getting a divorce? Is it not against Christian values to get a divorce? What about pregnancies outside of marriage? Will a corporation have a right to not pay for paternity coverage in case pregnancy outside the bonds of marriage? Will Jehovah Witness believing corporations not pay for surgeries involving transfusions? What about corporations that follow the Faith Healing practices, why have insurance at all if its in God's hands?

If I am going to have a government mandated health coverage, I would expect that my insurance covers what I wish for the most part, its my right to that healthcare. Our corporations may be people but those people suffer from "Multiple Personality Disorders" because let's face it, tomorrow Hobby Lobby could have new owners with a whole new personality. I don't personally believe that Corporations are people, at least until a corporation goes to jail for not paying fines or that entire corporations are held accountable to the law like normal oxygen breathing citizens are held.

I can understand a woman not wanting to go into Planned Parenthood. I am a man and I know that when it comes to penis and testicles, I would much rather my personal doctor that I go to everything else check me. A woman would have to see a completely different doctor from her normal OB/GYN going into Planned Parenthood. I'm sure those women enjoy showing their vaginas to complete random strangers as much as I like showing my penis to complete random strangers as well. Wouldn't the ability for a woman to to go a OB/GYN for all her check up and BC needs be more cost effective rather than having two businesses for different needs make more economic sense?

People can say that abortions/abortifacients/contraceptives are all different, but it all does the same thing, it stops unwanted pregnancies. I don't see much difference is a fertilized egg, an egg being stopped from dropping, to sperm being chemically or physically routed. Going back to the cancer = abortion argument, its not a far jump. One of the big arguments against birth control is that it interferes with God's plan. Well, if its God's plan to for one to die of cancer, who is that person to fight against God's will and that's was the point that the person was thing to make. Its always funny how its a stepping stone/stumbling block from God if you live, but its God's calling one home if you die.

I find it funny that Republicans would stop something that Democrats would use to not reproduce. Unfortunately our political system is so polarized that its now there are only two ways to look at things. America, the home of 31 flavors, infinite toppings on pizza, abundance of choice is stuck with these two sides. This decision was not a win for anyone else but those who wish to hold some much power that they can dictate what America means as a whole.

Remember, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. This is a social issue and not a constitutional one. A woman taking this pill or that does not effect another's religion. A person using a government mandated coverage will not stop a person from expressing their religion. When I see a person sentenced to Hell because of government mandated health coverage or a person sent to Heaven because fought against government mandated health coverage I could change my tune.

Also The 9th amendment states "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." If this is a tax in exchange for this government mandated health coverage, its my right to any and all parts of that health coverage regardless of the belief of my employer.

This is a win for corporations and a loss for workers everywhere.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 08:56 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: thesaneone

Ah! But see the difference is, anti-choicers HAVE actually fire bombed Planned Parenthood clinics, assaulted and even killed people. A tweet is still just a tweet.



A threat is still a threat.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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And on the day the law just took a hard turn to support religious racism at the office, this just in: "Hobby Lobby Still Covers Vasectomies And Viagra" Source: www.huffingtonpost.com...

Women everywhere with a shred of dignity just jumped off the GOP ship... if their husbands will let them.
edit on 30-6-2014 by Jason88 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Why should I be fined to exist?

The person I replied to asked, what's the next medication/treatment/problem that wont be covered? Opening the slippery slope angle...

I was merely pointing out that the slippery slope angle has been tossed out the window



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

So you condone the act of fire-bombing Planned Parenthood clinics by comparing that that to a few Tweets?

Interesting.

Please leave your "I *heart* Jesus" t-shirt at the door, because He was known as the Prince of Peace.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:06 PM
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A corporation no longer has to pay for anything that goes against the owner's religion. This isnt a matter of paying directly for BC, they pay for insurance that covers BC. The burden of the cost is now on the tax payers, including the very same corporation that didn't want to pay in the first place

All this has done is reduce the cost for the corporation. In the end its all about money and improving the bottom line... go figure.

If the government uses tax dollars in a way that goes against my religion, can I get exempted from paying taxes? What about social security, do those funds go toward something that may be against my religion? Can I stop paying?



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: KawRider9

Well in most states, car insurance, and in many states, ID cards as a license to exercise the right to vote.

There's a few.


Well, you see, those aren't exactly the same thing... I've not bought car insurance, or indeed ANY insurance, for a number of years now. The government gives me a choice in the matter - don't drive in THEIR roads without insurance, so I don't. No insurance necessary.

I went for several years with absolutely no ID as well - not even a birth certificate. Got along fine.

Then Obamacare and it's "individual mandate" rolls along, and the only choice I'm given is "don't breath then". I'm having a problem with that one...

Currently I'm exploring the expedient of simply not filing tax returns any more. That seems a far more viable solution than stopping breathing. It's how I got out of it this year - I just refused to make enough money to require a tax form to be filed.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Jason88

And the racist remarks start.



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: beezzer

Holey Majoley, Beezer!!! That is a leap of highly unsubstantiated proportions!!

Good Gracious. Communism? Nyet.

I guess it frightens me that a Corporation, which is a legal entity devised solely for the purpose of creating profits and protecting the shareholders/owners of said Corporation from various forms of personal liability, should in this age be considered to hold a religious belief and that that religious belief could determine ANYTHING about how the very human employees are treated. I see it as putting a Corporation (and it's owners) over the workers. Theocratic Corporatism. That's what makes me shudder. Not a well run capitalism, mind you. For me, that is the broader implication. I really don't get the leap you've made, except that it satisfies your bias.

The second frightening thing is that the Belief of the owners that these are "abortion drugs" does not meet scientific rigor and uses incorrect definitions of scientific terms as the core of its argument. I know folks are wanting to debate this, but by the definitions established in the medical community, they are wrong.

The hatred towards the "nanny state" should not wish to create a world of "corporate nannies" either, IMO. It is exactly the opposite that is true. Does anyone really want the owners of this large Corporation, however closely held, to be in the Doctor's office with them to dictate their personal healthcare decisions for their private lives.

This is an obviously contentious issue as people are saying that it is a boon to religious freedom and limits the government. But it should be noted that it is the religious freedom of a wealthy owner of a corporation that has won that right over the rights of the lowly worker, who happens to be a woman. So the SCOTUS says the corporation matters more that the workers in this context. Geez. That's just scary to me.

It does not portend greater freedoms for the little guy.

Peace,
AB



posted on Jun, 30 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: KawRider9

Actually, here's what you said:


originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: paleorchid13

Going with the slippery slope angle huh?

How about forcing someone to pay a fine for not buying a product they can't afford?

What will the next product I have to purchase be?


I answered your question. You dodged the answer. /shrug

Here's a better way to phrase your question: why should the public be forced to pay for your inevitable healthcare when you're taken to an emergency room? The answer: pay for your own.

Simple, really.



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