The Kids on the Border...I say let them In

a reply to: Sinfulknowledge

Just one thing, how much do you think produce construction or landscaping would cost in this country without illegals?

originally posted by: HauntWok
Just one thing, how much do you think produce construction or landscaping would cost in this country without illegals?

YIKES! Take an economics course ....

Direct cost - $100 BILLION per year.
Indirect cost - $900 BILLION per year.

Heritage Foundation - Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the US Taxpayer
ABC News - Illegals Directly Cost US Taxpayer 100 Billion Per Year

And then there are these issues ...

Hospitals overcrowded and legal Americans die from lack of care. Prisons overcrowded with illegals - huge cost to taxpayers. Schools overcrowded with illegals who can't speak english and who drag down the classes so legal American children don't get the education they deserve.

LA Hospitals Forced to Close - Full of nonpaying Illegals
Illegals Putting Strain on Prison System
Illegals overcrowd schools - cost of building new schools

a reply to: FlyersFan

Most of those links were from right wing hate blogs, might as well have pointed to stormfront as a source.

Hey, I'm all for a real solutions to the problem. since people don't bother to go after the people that employ or rent to illegals the problem will continue.

I don't need stormfrontesque blog's to tell me that.

a reply to: HauntWok

Epic deflection failure on your part. Trying to tie in Stormfront when it doesn't fit? Really? Pathetic. ABC news is NOT stormfront. And the information is correct.

Go after those who employ illegals? Sure. But stop denying that illegals in this country cost hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars every year. And the jobs held by illegals in 'gardening' and 'construction' (which you mentioned) would soon be filled by legal Americans. We have a lot of unemployed people. They'd take the jobs no problem.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
I know I'm going to take some shots on this but here is how I feel.

There are 1000's of parents that sent their children to America. Think about that.

The pull of America is so strong you would send your kid with smugglers to get here.

I could not turn them away. I see this as a way to make a real difference.

A chance for these babies to have a future that does not involve a Drug Cartel.

America is certainly big enough to absorb these children. I would raise one.

This is my idea. Adopt these kids to good homes across America.

In return for educating these kids and giving these kids their Citizenship.

When they turn 20.

From that point on they must spend 1 out of 10 years in their Home Country.

We educate these kids with strategies that can change their Country of Birth.

The only way we are going to stop all of So. America from coming to the US.

Is to help them make the Country so good they do not want to leave.

It's just an idea...

I applaude you! It's good to see an American with a heart. God bless you.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Exactly, those jobs would be taken by Americans.

i never said illegals don't cost anything. but they also keep costs down in certain industries. by being paid pennies on the dollar.

if you didn't take the first opportunity to parade out the hate blogs you would have seen that.

originally posted by: HauntWok
if you didn't take the first opportunity to parade out the hate blogs you ...

I posted no 'hate blogs'. Again ... epic deflection failure on your part.
I posted financial information. ACCURATE financial information from credible sources.
Illegals cost American taxpayers hundreds of billions of $$ every year.

a reply to: HauntWok
What "hate blog"? You mean the heritage article? The article sites all it's sources, how is that a "hate blog"? Looks like a proper article to me.....

a reply to: FlyersFan

Here's a website that may be more to his liking, it's called: FAIRUS.org
Federation For American Immigration Reform.

This is the Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on U.S. Taxpayers 2010 report.

This report estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level.

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.

With many state budgets in deficit, policymakers have an obligation to look for ways to reduce the fiscal burden of illegal migration. California, facing a budget deficit of $14.4 billion in 2010-2011, is hit with an estimated $21.8 billion in annual expenditures on illegal aliens. New York’s $6.8 billion deficit is smaller than its $9.5 billion in yearly illegal alien costs.

Linky

a reply to: Plotus

You have it almost right. They want everyone else in sackcloth and barefoot. They never imagine the same situation applies to them.

a reply to: Plotus

OOPS!

a reply to: FlyersFan

And i agreed that illegals do cost this country in the ways you stated.

Didn't need an ultra right wing hate site to tell me that.

the problem the hard core right has is that they don't understand that illegals are a symptom of the true problem in this country, and their xenophobia won't let them see the real problem.

If people had no jobs to go to or places to live, they wouldn't come here.

Now show me a stormfrontesqe blog that proves to you that's a lie.

A new report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) shows that state and local budgets will also receive a new jolt of needed tax revenues as a result of immigration reform—and that undocumented taxpayers are already paying a substantial amount of state and local taxes across the nation. The report estimates that these families pay $10.6 billion a year in state and local sales, excise, income and property taxes right now, and would pay an additional $2 billion if these families were, as part of immigration reform, allowed to fully participate in state tax systems.

--------------------

The undocumented population is notoriously hard to measure —but under any reasonable assumptions about the size and income levels of this population, they are already paying billions of dollars a year to support the state and local services from which they benefit, and will likely pay billions more on legalization.

www.ctj.org...

The report:

www.itep.org...

I wonder if the tax dollars collected from these people are from very low paying (illegal by employers) jobs that nobody else would take?

More numbers for you all to crunch.

www.americanprogress.org...

a reply to: HauntWok
You have a point, how can we address those parts of the equation without becoming nazi-like though? We would have to all start snitching out all the violators, and that makes a lot of people feel mighty uncomfortably close to the snitch-on-your-neighbor-and-family nazi policies.

On paper the homeowner is renting out an apartment to Juan, in reality he is renting the apartment to Jaun(who is a lot of times at least got a greencard), and ten of his illegal cousins. The same deal in the construction industry where I was. On paper the construction team is 4 guys, in reality it is four guys, plus ten illegal laborers. Either we hire a boatload of undercover surprise inspectors, and do surprise attack stings(construction sites cleared out fast when someone would yell INS), or we gotta all become state snitches.

originally posted by: InTheLight

A new report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) shows that state and local budgets will also receive a new jolt of needed tax revenues as a result of immigration reform—and that undocumented taxpayers are already paying a substantial amount of state and local taxes across the nation. The report estimates that these families pay $10.6 billion a year in state and local sales, excise, income and property taxes right now, and would pay an additional $2 billion if these families were, as part of immigration reform, allowed to fully participate in state tax systems.

--------------------

The undocumented population is notoriously hard to measure —but under any reasonable assumptions about the size and income levels of this population, they are already paying billions of dollars a year to support the state and local services from which they benefit, and will likely pay billions more on legalization.

www.ctj.org...

The report:

www.itep.org...

I wonder if the tax dollars collected from these people are from very low paying (illegal by employers) jobs that nobody else would take?

More numbers for you all to crunch.

www.americanprogress.org...

So if all these illegals are paying taxes and get deported, that takes millions of citizens off of un-employment and welfare and the taxes can be paid by them. Plus, citizens don't send billions of dollars out of the Country to family members.

a reply to: TKDRL

I understand.

It's the central core of the problem. You want the solution, there it is.

I postulated a rather harsh solution. Hire an illegal, get a million dollar fine, ten years in jail, and have your business license revoked.

Rent to an illegal and get a million dollar fine, yen years in jail and your property seized.

Harsh yes, but it's the solution.

a reply to: HauntWok
Well it's half the solution. Punishment for both the illegal(deportation), and the employer/landlord, will probably put a huge damper on it. But enforcement is the problem. There needs to be some kind of consensus, what the state can do, what the fed can do, and make sure they are keeping up their end of the bargain.

Another thing is reporting, from my perspective, coming from the "lower economic classes", I was taught snitching is a bad thing, unless it's something serious as hell like witnessing a rape or murder or something. Got to convince bluecollar guys that illegal immigration hiring is a serious thing. Weird, it seems the lower class you come from, the worse stigma snitching gets you, probably has a lot to do with how the poorly the poorer people are treated by the cops I guess.

a reply to: TKDRL

Oh i know, snitches get stitches.

illegal immigrants have to have no reason to come here.

Is the only way, otherwise the problem just continues.

with no work if employers or should i say exploiters are too scared to hire an illegal
if landlords were to scared to rent to illegal

then you would start to see things change. then deportation would be more effective.

It's harsh, i know, but its better than the hard core right has in mind. your afraid my solution would be too Nazi like? Their solution is all out genocide.

a reply to: HauntWok
I stated that way back in page 9, get rid of the incentive to come here by punishing the employers, but you still have the problem of illegal immigrants not paying their fair share yet taking advantage of resources funded by taxes

InTheLight is at least trying to put out information that might help the conversation although a poor example considering that the "10.6 billion" in taxes illegal immigrants pay hardly even dents the 113 billion that they are costing us...

and its funny, instead of showing me a report of some kind you ask "how much do you think produce construction or landscaping would cost in this country without illegals?" and that's after i asked you not to avoid the issue...

but FlyersFan did an excellent job of proving his point and then again you deflect, even if the information is coming from Fox news you know there are ways of fact checking right?

I don't see how letting these people stay will not affect us negatively in the long run.
I put a link to an article where an illegal immigrant her self is saying she came here because she heard on the radio through friends and the community that the U.S. was handing out "permisos".

what do you think is going to happen if these countries hear that we are letting them stay, the migration is only going to get worse year after year.

originally posted by: Night Star

originally posted by: InTheLight

A new report from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) shows that state and local budgets will also receive a new jolt of needed tax revenues as a result of immigration reform—and that undocumented taxpayers are already paying a substantial amount of state and local taxes across the nation. The report estimates that these families pay $10.6 billion a year in state and local sales, excise, income and property taxes right now, and would pay an additional $2 billion if these families were, as part of immigration reform, allowed to fully participate in state tax systems.

--------------------

The undocumented population is notoriously hard to measure —but under any reasonable assumptions about the size and income levels of this population, they are already paying billions of dollars a year to support the state and local services from which they benefit, and will likely pay billions more on legalization.

www.ctj.org...

The report:

www.itep.org...

I wonder if the tax dollars collected from these people are from very low paying (illegal by employers) jobs that nobody else would take?

More numbers for you all to crunch.

www.americanprogress.org...

So if all these illegals are paying taxes and get deported, that takes millions of citizens off of un-employment and welfare and the taxes can be paid by them. Plus, citizens don't send billions of dollars out of the Country to family members.

Please read the information in my link below...from 'rational' wiki:

rationalwiki.org...