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Armed EPA agents raid plumbers office

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posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

In all seriousness, I suppose that tells us they intend to go where they haven't traditionally gone before and they fully intend to do things that will bring them into potential conflict with citizens at a level where lethal force is needed.

Sounds to me like the EPA is an agency with a plan....and none of it is likely to be good news for the American people who supposedly make their existence possible.




posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
In all seriousness, I suppose that tells us they intend to go where they haven't traditionally gone before and they fully intend to do things that will bring them into potential conflict with citizens at a level where lethal force is needed.

Sounds to me like the EPA is an agency with a plan....and none of it is likely to be good news for the American people who supposedly make their existence possible.


They have been armed for over 30 years and not one agent has been killed by firearms in the entire span. I have found only one instance in my searching of when they had to shoot a suspect.

I think it is time to disarm the EPA and a host of other Federal Agencies. There are other armed personnel at both the Federal, State and Local levels that can provide armed support if necessary.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Thanks for finding those stats. It shows the slant in their page.

Could be that government agencies can't consider them selves cool and legitimate unless they have weapons. Part of the police state mentality.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:44 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I couldn't agree with you more. I believe we have a few "swiss army knife" agencies that exist, in part, to give armed support to other federal agencies when needed and called upon.

I think the Feds have come to call that duplication of effort and silly redundancy. Indeed... They would....

I'd just note as one example? We'd never even know Rodney King got his butt stomped as badly as as horribly as he did ...if C.H.P. units, as another agency, weren't directly involved in the end result and able to testify to what they saw the LAPD do to the man.


I don't think an unarmed EPA or NOAA having to call another agency for support, if needed, is duplication. I think it's an inherent check/balance to a disinterested 3rd party to have the chance to say "What...are you friggen CRAZY?!" when they had a really bad idea.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:46 AM
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Ah god bless America...

You have the right to bear arms and it's part of your constitution.

"Let's disarm government agents"

Hypocrites.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
I don't think an unarmed EPA or NOAA having to call another agency for support, if needed, is duplication. I think it's an inherent check/balance to a disinterested 3rd party to have the chance to say "What...are you friggen CRAZY?!" when they had a really bad idea.


Precisely. In the rare instance there is an armed and dangerous polluter the EPA can call the FBI or the state police.

They are a regulatory agency, not some bunko squad breaking down doors and rousting dangerous felons.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: AlphaHawk
Ah god bless America...

You have the right to bear arms and it's part of your constitution.

"Let's disarm government agents"

Hypocrites.


Perhaps you never read the Second Amendment, it states the right of 'the People' shall not be infringed. It says nothing of arming the Federal Government and a majority of the Founders were against any armed Federal personnel except in wartime.

Let me know when we need the EPA to help prosecute a war.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: AlphaHawk

I don't see anything hypocritical about it. I welcome any EPA or other federal agent to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. In fact I encourage them to carry a weapon and come to form a respect and useful understanding to what a firearm is and more importantly, is NOT in ways only regular carry tend to drive home.

They're encouraged to do all that ....as citizens...on their own time. As sworn federal agents on the clock? The 2nd amendment exists, in part, as a RESPONSE to them...not as a support for them.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:01 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Why does anyone need guns then?

Personal protection?


On March 13, 2009, EPA agents had tracked environmental fugitive Larkin Baggett to a campsite in the Florida Keys. Baggett had been named to EPA's wanted list after skipping out on court appearances in a Utah court after he was indicted on four felony counts of violating the federal Resource Conservation and Recovery Act.

Agents and local police were preparing to execute an arrest warrant when Baggett grabbed a semiautomatic rifle equipped with two 30-round magazines taped together and pointed it at the agents. The agents fired and managed to wound Baggett. He was taken into custody and would later be sentenced to 20 years in prison.


From the same (I assume) article you got the EPA deaths figure from...

www.nytimes.com...


edit on 29-6-2014 by AlphaHawk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: AlphaHawk
From the same (I assume) article you got the EPA deaths figure from...


The same. And the only instance in two days of searching that I found for EPA agents having a gunfight. They do not need them, they could have called the Florida state police or the FBI for support.

The less armed Federal personnel there are they safer the citizens will be.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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a reply to: AlphaHawk

Excellent case to highlight as an example.

Utah Man Sentenced to 20 Years in Prison for Environmental, Other Crimes

The guy is pretty much the boss we all may agree is a piece of crap and a testament to how low humans can really GO to turn a profit. Then again, I would be inerested to hear what his alternatives were just for the sake of curiosity, along with costs to leave anything for payroll...but that doesn't excuse what he did. No question there.

So.. It was very necessary to hunt him down like a violent felon on the run and finally corner him to shoot him before taking him into custody.

Now...in a world where actual killers walk in 15 years or less depending on specific charge they get hung on? He'll do 20 years in the Federal system. 20 YEARS of life. Think of that. It's as much or a majority of the time many here have even been alive. He'll be warehoused (after being shot) at great taxpayer expense, with his every basic need met on demand and without question.

...perhaps this need we seem to have to incapacitate, incarcerate and fail to rehabilitate people is chronic and perhaps it's just an illness America has developed over time. You don't see people in many other developed nations being shot and thrown away for 20 years (at our expense) for dumping chemicals.

.....I say the loser could have been put to work in a sewage treatment plant for 20 years while supporting his own sorry butt with the base wages the worst job that facility has can pay. Now THAT would have been productive and they wouldn't have even needed to shoot him, I'll bet.

Environmental fugitive from Utah shot by federal agents in Florida



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Safer?

Safer than 1 known agent shooting in 30 years?



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: AlphaHawk
Safer?

Safer than 1 known agent shooting in 30 years?


I take no comfort in knowing that Federal regulatory agencies have weapons. If they require armed support in completing their duties they have numerous avenues of recourse available.



posted on Jun, 29 2014 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Well how people are incarcerated is a completely different subject, but the case shows that EPA agents probably don't need to be armed, going by how many armed confrontations they've had, but also that they aren't trigger happy and go in guns blazing like some would have us believe...like in the OP.



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