Man Overboard

When someone has a condition such as alcoholism, problem gambling or drug addiction, it not only has a detrimental impact on their own lives but also those closest to them. Whether that includes business, friendship or romantic relationships, all three are likely to suffer as a result. The destructive behaviour we take part in, the lies we tell, the people we hurt and the drama we cause is only worsened by the relationships we destroy and lives we affect negatively.

But when is it time to cut someone off? "You never give up on family" and "No friend left behind" are statements that come to mind when contemplating severing ties with those who take part in these destructive behaviours. A "former" alcoholic will never be a non-alcoholic, they will just be a "reformed alcoholic". A problem gambler will never be able to "delete" their compulsions to gamble. A recovering drug addict will never be truly free of the compulsion to use.

In addition to character faults, these are compulsive-behaviour conditions. They are a part of an individual's journey, even if it takes them down some dark and scary roads.

So what do we do? Cut all financial ties? Stop giving our emotional support? Stop all communication? How does one achieve a balance on such a difficult issue? Is balance on this issue necessarily a good thing? Does the end justify the means? Or do the means justify the end?

Or should we try to empathise with their position and try to help them learn to manage their compulsions? This is not easy. It will take sacrifice, resilience and determination to achieve. We will be used, abused and emotionally blackmailed, ridiculed and lied to in the process.

Nevertheless, the outcome will likely be that we are stronger and more emotionally-resilient as having gone through these experiences.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

If a person is currently using, they will continue to despite what you may say or threaten. The abuse cycle can't be broken by supporting an addict during this phase. Cutting them off as cruel as it sounds, needs to be compared to the current misery everyone else is experiencing.

Continuing to harbor them harbors their disease as well. There are alternatives. Have you ever heard of an intervention?

Gad I can't believe I am saying this, I went through it earlier in my life and I am here to tell you, its tough. In the long run though, you are helping them and you.

What is intervention?

a reply to: intrptr

Interventions, while successful in many cases, are generally overwhelming and surreal for the subject. Perhaps a better first option would be to have "The Talk" with them. I actually created a thread a while back on steps on how to do this. Unfortunately, the thread didn't receive as much discussion as I would have liked, but it did seem to touch a few people.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Dificult subject. You can try to "intervene" yourself and see if it helps. I was speaking from the experience I have had in my life as a recovering addict. In that experience "the talk" is much less powerful than the addictions hold. An addict who is currently using will just agree and tell you anything you want to hear (while thinking of using).

If you haven't been there try watching some of those intervention episodes that are on TV to see what they are about.

You are already struggling with the issue I can tell… that's why you started a thread on it.

ETA: I don;t know what specific addiction you are dealing with but you can search that online and find an "Intervention" episode that covers that. There are a plethora.

A&E TV

originally posted by: intrptr
You are already struggling with the issue I can tell… that's why you started a thread on it.

I have struggled with the issue in the past, was just wondering if anyone else out there can relate to my experiences and what advice they can offer in case another person close to me (or myself) goes through something like this again. I am a humble person; I know there are ways I can improve my reactions to bad situations and develop as a human being.

Hi myname is Liejunkie01 and I am an alcoholic.

I feel great man. May 6, 2013 was my last drink. I voluntarily went to a professional and asked what made me tick the way I do. It helped me in a big way.

I have always struggled with alcohol, but now I know why and I no longer crave it. I cant say I will never drink again, but I can say it is much easier for me to not think about it anymore.

My kids and my family are more important. If someone wants to clean up, they will. If not they will be in denial for who knows how long.

My brother's parole date is set for 2022. He didn't think his drug addiction was a problem.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I was with someone for almost three years who had an addition to pain pills. I stood by him when he went to rehab three times. It didn't work. He started to get physical with me. It started with verbal abuse and then escalated. The abuse was my final straw. I was not going to be his punching bag when I was trying to help him but he didn't want the help and that was obvious. Someone has to WANT the help before you can do anything for them. I learned that and it took awhile because I'm the type of person who wants to help everyone esp if it is someone I"m close to.

The first year we were together he was fine it was the last two that were basically hell. When he was off the pills he was a different person. It was like Jekyl and Hyde with him. The rehab facilities didn't do much, they actually gave him more drugs to become addicted to and he was someone who had an addictive personality.

I think the time to walk away is when it is hurting YOU personally in a way that is unacceptable. For me it was the abuse. I didn't deserve it and he clearly needed more help than I could give and if he wasn't willing to take it there was nothing I could do.

I had a friend who was an alcoholic, she admitted it but she also never really took control of her addiction. She kind of joked at it. She spent one month in jail about 11yrs ago and that didn't even scare her straight. Well it did but not for long. I have not had contact with her in a few years so I have no idea how she is now but the last time I talked to her she called me asking me to come get her because she didn't want her husband to see she had been drinking. I got many calls like that from her over the years.

Good luck.

a reply to: mblahnikluver

I was thinking of how to word my reply when I refreshed and saw yours... which is eerily similar to what I was going to say! I was with a guy an addiction. It was beer for him, he hid at first how much he was addicted. I didn't fully understand until we moved in together. By then of course, I was "in love" and determined to "save him". Then he broke his back and pill addiction was thrown into the mix. (stay off those grapevines kiddies!).

Same as you, when it became abusive I concluded that he would not be saved until he wanted to be saved, and it became necessary to save myself. I cut out and have never looked back.

Like you said. When it becomes damaging to yourself, that's the time to say goodbye.

If it's a family member, the best you can do is not enable them. Don't give them money for their addiction. If you can, say goodbye to them, let them know that when the time comes that they are ready for help, you will be there for them.

As for when it is time to give up? Everyone has their breaking point. While some of the addictions you mention have social recreation attached to them, at extremes they are systemic issues with a long history of destruction. As for if it is time to give up or keep going is something everyone that has to work and deal with these repercussions continually asks themselves and their support network.

When looking for a man overboard the search is more effective if you are still on board fit and healthy than also splashing around lost at sea.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

At the end of the day it's up to the individual to help themselves.

I had to do the same because I was 'assigned' a psychiatrist to help my through my compulsions. Then one session he abruptly announced in his exact words that "there's not much I can do for you anymore" and I immediately wanted to knock him out, which is the type of behavior he was supposed to help me with.

So I ended my 'consultations', stopped taking the mind altering drugs, and took matters into my own hands. I haven't improved dramatically but I have done more to improve myself than that 150 dollar an hour pharma salesman ever did. For some people self improvement can be a path to self control and self esteem, and the soup tastes much better when you cook it yourself.

But that doesn't work for everyone. If a family member is siphoning money from you to fuel their habits-you've got to pull the pin. They will hate you for it but it's for the best in the long run, if you can convince them to better themselves.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

The only person who can help someone with negatively addictive behaviour is that person. You can't help them, I can't help them and Jesus can't help them. Only they can. Only they can reach their breaking point. There's nothing anyone can do to push them there. When you try to give them support, all you're doing is putting off the inevitable. That being, their breaking point.

If the person you're talking about is someone you love, then tell them "I love you", turn and walk away and don't look back. If this person is someone whom you have known before they started using, you will be able to tell when they've stopped again by their behaviour. Don't listen to them when they say "I've changed". Watch them.

Watch and see if they have replaced a negative addiction for a positive one. Don't fool yourself into thinking that they will never be addicted to something. They will. That's how God made 'em. Watch their attitude. If it's generally positive day after day, then hold onto hope. When months go by and they're progressing socially and professionally with the same attitude and actions, find a way to help them without them being aware that you are.

When even more time goes by and they're still on the right track, find the right place and time to give them a gift. For example, give them a nice watch and tell them "See? I told you I loved you. It's about time time you came around".

That's helping a person. Standing back and letting them find their own way. If they come back to the real world, it was meant to be. If they don't.......ditto.

There's some great advice and insight from the posters on this thread. Because I work in mental health, I see it all the time.....families and loved ones torn apart because somebody decides to drink or drug themselves constantly. They feel guilty if I recommend that they cut that person off like a diseased limb until said addict gets their act together and stays clean.

However, that's the only way. It is often the "wake up call" addicts desperately need.

When the man overboard chooses to jump and refuses to grab ahold of the life preserver thrown to him, it's time to sail away. Everybody makes their own choices in life as adults. Why jump over the side and drown with them?

PS....I have also been told repeatedly by addicts that rehab is the best place to get drugs. Therefore, each person with a problem has got to conquer it on their own, it has to be their choice and their effort.

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
a reply to: Dark Ghost

I was with someone for almost three years who had an addition to pain pills. I stood by him when he went to rehab three times. It didn't work. He started to get physical with me. It started with verbal abuse and then escalated. The abuse was my final straw. I was not going to be his punching bag when I was trying to help him but he didn't want the help and that was obvious. Someone has to WANT the help before you can do anything for them. I learned that and it took awhile because I'm the type of person who wants to help everyone esp if it is someone I"m close to.

The first year we were together he was fine it was the last two that were basically hell. When he was off the pills he was a different person. It was like Jekyl and Hyde with him. The rehab facilities didn't do much, they actually gave him more drugs to become addicted to and he was someone who had an addictive personality.

I think the time to walk away is when it is hurting YOU personally in a way that is unacceptable. For me it was the abuse. I didn't deserve it and he clearly needed more help than I could give and if he wasn't willing to take it there was nothing I could do.

I had a friend who was an alcoholic, she admitted it but she also never really took control of her addiction. She kind of joked at it. She spent one month in jail about 11yrs ago and that didn't even scare her straight. Well it did but not for long. I have not had contact with her in a few years so I have no idea how she is now but the last time I talked to her she called me asking me to come get her because she didn't want her husband to see she had been drinking. I got many calls like that from her over the years.

Good luck.

ADDICTION! Sorry it says addition. I can't stand autocorrect. It puts what it thinks i am going to type and it is annoying. I am waiting on my new phone so I won't have these problems next week.

originally posted by: MojaveBurning
a reply to: mblahnikluver

I was thinking of how to word my reply when I refreshed and saw yours... which is eerily similar to what I was going to say! I was with a guy an addiction. It was beer for him, he hid at first how much he was addicted. I didn't fully understand until we moved in together. By then of course, I was "in love" and determined to "save him". Then he broke his back and pill addiction was thrown into the mix. (stay off those grapevines kiddies!).

I didn't know all the things he was addicted to at first either. It wasn't just pain pills, he also had an addiction to crack. I was young and had no idea about drugs. I bought a book at the bookstore and started to watch him and see what his actions were. He freaked when he saw the book. I would watch him at night in the dark, no joke, to see what he was doing and that is how I found out about everything. I confronted him and well that wasn't a very good idea at first but I was trying to help.

Yup the whole "save" them thing. I was that was as well. He was not a bad guy when he wasn't on something. He worked 7 days a week and for 12-15hrs a day and never complained about it. He was literally a different person when his addiction kicked in. It was like I was with a completely different person.

After his third time in rehab shortly after he had his appendix out. He told the docs ON his paper work no hydrocodone, that was his addiction. He literally took 10 pills or more A DAY! Well what did the docs prescribe him after surgery?! Hyrdocodone! I went nuts on them. I was like he said he was in rehab three times for these and you give him a script?! I couldn't believe it. I mean now I can because they don't care, they wanted him addicted. We went home with nothing and I called and filed a complaint against the hospital. I myself can't take that pill because it makes me sick but so many docs try and give it to me. I now just tell them I'm allergic to it. Pretty bad I have to lie so they don't keep trying to shove something down my throat I don't want nor even like. Heck it makes me sick and itchy, why would I want to feel like that?!

Same as you, when it became abusive I concluded that he would not be saved until he wanted to be saved, and it became necessary to save myself. I cut out and have never looked back.

I had never had a bf hurt me before. The guy I dated before him treated me like gold. He was the sweetest most caring bf I ever had. So I couldn't understand why this guy was so mean to me. I was young obviously didn't know and i kept it from friends and family. I was embarrassed and felt stuck in a situation. Of course I finally got out and I lived in a hotel for a month with no car BUT I was alive. The last interaction with him I thought he was going to kill me. It was that bad so I ran in the middle of the night to a pay phone and called my mom. I finally told everyone what had been happening and got a restraining order against him. I often wonder if he ever got help or changed to be honest. It's just the kind of person I am. I don't really wish anything bad on him but he did put me through hell those years.

Like you said. When it becomes damaging to yourself, that's the time to say goodbye.

Yup and even then it can be hard. I know for me I felt trapped. I couldn't afford the place on my own and I had a car payment. It was hard when he left but it took me a few months and I got back on my feet. My ex, the sweet one before him, was one of the people who actually helped me most through that situation.

If it's a family member, the best you can do is not enable them. Don't give them money for their addiction. If you can, say goodbye to them, let them know that when the time comes that they are ready for help, you will be there for them.

My mom left my dad because he was an alcoholic and abusive to her. He never touched us but we were young and who was to say he wouldn't later on down the line. When I finally got in contact with my dad about 10yrs ago we found out that my mom leaving with us is what made him straighten up. He hasn't had a drink since and has been sober for about 30yrs now. He won't even take any meds that have alcohol in it. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

I had a girlfriend that was a drug addict. She did a good job of hiding the fact, but she brought more trouble and drama into my life than I was willing to tolerate. Pretty only goes so far. I dropped her like a hot potato.

There is a fine line between helping someone and enabling them. Most people are not well informed enough to know the difference, and end up being a major contributor to their loved one's downfall.

When addiction has taken over a persons life, professional help is needed.

I don't have a whole lot of experience in this, but I imagine that the idea of cutting all ties with someone who is dealing with an addiction can feel heartless, selfish, dramatic and permanent.

It might just be PART of the process though. A stage both you and they need to go through. A step that could end up saving you and hopefully them as well. A lot can change in a year, or five...or even ten. There are sure to be phases that both require your presence and support and phases that require you to cut ties. If they come out of it, they should know by then that you loved them through BOTH of those phases--even if they couldn't see it then.

You can't save everyone, but you should never give up trying. Spider-man taught me that and I try to live by it.

I think a lot has to do with how long you have known the person, their relationship to you (friend, sibling, parent, child, spouse etc) and the nature and duration of their issues.

But one thing most agree on, it takes hitting rock bottom with burnt bridges and no resources to turn to in order for them to want it for themselves. And only wanting it for themselves is what gives them strength and courage to choose a different path and actually stay on it.

So, I'm inclined to let rock bottom happen as soon as possible. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I am a 40 year licensed addiction counselor.
Tough love = if they sit on the burner; they need to sit on the blisters.

People close to the addict/alcoholic/gambler deal with the
negative consequences (sit on the blisters) for the sick person and...

This enabling codependent behavior allows alcoholics addicts
and gamblers to not have to feel the pain of their behavior.

An intervention is an event that brings the rock bottom up
and hits them in the ass with it------before they fall so low that they hit rock bottom.