ISIS & It's Religious Civil War

a reply to: smurfy

The how, who and why of radicalization is multifaceted. No getting around that... it has layers with no easy answers.

The funding lately has been mainly from the US, and as always Saudia, for the funding in the middle east, from north africa to syrian and iraq. This funding didn't begin until the Obama administration, at least not at this level. However, we knew exactly what would happen in Iraq if we started a war and then walked out leaving a power vacuum. And we did it anyway, I can only assume that was intentional, we wanted a group like ISIS to fight in iraq when we were done.

And the answer as to why... is to me only 1 logical answer. Because there is only 1 group in the world that could possibly benefit from a large amount of unrest in the middle east. And I worry for saying it outloud yet because I could still be wrong... I need to think more on it before I say much.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

So something that happened 600 years ago is the reason why they are fighting today? It doesn't matter how long they have been at each other for, I'm not interested in centuries worth of slaughter, I'm interested in the meddling that has taken place over the last decade, 20 years, even back to when the CIA orchestrated the Iranian coup in 1953 which left the majority of Iranians in poverty. You will find that US meddling has contributed to many issues the Middle East is facing today regardless of their bloody history.

I love how people try to justify your countries innocence when the truth is Iraq was a stable country before US intervention, Syria was a stable country before Western funded terrorists came along, Libyans could enjoy free healthcare before the West murdered Gadaffi. The truth of the matter is all these interventions have made things worse and we should be held accountable for that.

Over a Million people have died because of those interventions, but I guess that was caused by the Crusades back in the 1200's?

Serious question.. Have your read the Qu'ran?

a reply to: tothetenthpower Seems that you get most of your thoughts from bill. The answer is simple and if the growth of radical islam is not stopped or at the very least molded into something that gains no power then they will eventually live up to their goals of cutting off your head one day. They will grow in power and tech. if left unchecked and even worse would be for the u.s. to have leaders that support their goal of power all while saying that they are fighting them for our benefit. They want to bring the fight to us the infedals.

a reply to: deadeyedick

So your an Athiest?

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

So something that happened 600 years ago is the reason why they are fighting today? It doesn't matter how long they have been at each other for, I'm not interested in centuries worth of slaughter, I'm interested in the meddling that has taken place over the last decade, 20 years, even back to when the CIA orchestrated the Iranian coup in 1953 which left the majority of Iranians in poverty. You will find that US meddling has contributed to many issues the Middle East is facing today regardless of their bloody history.

I love how people try to justify your countries innocence when the truth is Iraq was a stable country before US intervention, Syria was a stable country before Western funded terrorists came along, Libyans could enjoy free healthcare before the West murdered Gadaffi. The truth of the matter is all these interventions have made things worse and we should be held accountable for that.

Over a Million people have died because of those interventions, but I guess that was caused by the Crusades back in the 1200's?

Serious question.. Have your read the Qu'ran?

Yes I have. And to the rest of your reply..........finally

a reply to: deadeyedick

Very true, ISIS and its idealised goal of Caliphate is a very real danger as it would become the fortress from which the lofty aim of an islamic world would grow.

Allowing ISIS a victory and a foothold now would be like taking a sip from a spitoon, before you know it the whole damn lot slips down your throat.

The world must try to deal with this coming clash of civilizations somehow.
All this bloodshed and hate and for what?
As my username ponders......Humans eh!

a reply to: DarknStormy I'm a hard headed lover. What part of my post brings my faith into question for you? It is quiet clear that islam views everyone as infedals including aethist.

a reply to: HumansEh What i find most surprising is how now of all times the majority of people are calling for the u.s. to stay out of it. It is just not possible to do at this point because of the whole nuke thing. As one of the rabbits on here said in another thread if iran falls then isis will have all it needs.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Why don't we just admit it. The US is the worlds police man and the military industrial complex is designed to profit
as much as they can from that reality. It's a business. All the ideological, patriotic, flag waving rhetoric is
smoke and mirrors to justify invasion and occupation so the companies can profit from blood and the American taxpayer.
Do you think the likes of Halliburton are just going to sit idly by? PNAC is alive and well!!

I expect another huge "war" in some ME country with a fresh batch of American troops on the ground.

We have to protect Israel! The propaganda has already begun.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Seems that you get most of your thoughts from bill.

LOL, well thanks for the generalization of my character, but I will go without.

The answer is simple and if the growth of radical islam is not stopped or at the very least molded into something that gains no power then they will eventually live up to their goals of cutting off your head one day.

This incredibly hyperbolic idea was said about Christianity back in the days when they were running around cutting people's heads off.

They will grow in power and tech.

The only reason they've done so thus far is because of Western Intervention. Deals with 3 letter agencies to overthrow despots who aren't playing ball, among other things are the reasons for extremists uprisings. Take Iraq for example, we created a power vacuum, killed most of the adults in the country and left it in the hands of old angry religious men, and young men looking for a fight because of what happened to their parents and their culture.

They want to bring the fight to us the infedals.

I wish Americans would realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and your safety, nor does it revolve around Islam hating America so much that every Muslim with a chip on their shoulder wants it destroyed. The media would certainly like for you to think that.

Pure and simple, this issue is a religious civil war, being fought between two groups who could care less bout America right now, other than whether or not they will, once again, stick their noses where it doesn't belong.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I parsed it out, and I'm not touching it with a ten foot or otherwise pole…..
thanks for your opinion. I am constantly amazed by what isn't really so, but "looks" like it is, so someone can "say" what it appears to be….
anyway
tetra

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Im sorry but I don't know how we are suppose to stay out of it. When I see these ISIS scumbags torture and execute people for fun, laughing the whole time and chanting some stupid sh@@ about ALLAH while holding up a babys severed head, I believe it is our responsibility to do something about it.

Especially in Iraq where we overthrew the government and have now just left these people.

ETA

And if ISIS had the chance they would kill as many Americans as they could and hold our baby's head up for a camera.

a reply to: DarknStormy

I love how people try to justify your countries innocence when the truth is Iraq was a stable country before US intervention

I love how people try to blame the west for a violent ideology that has been around since before the US was a country....

The US may have funded, and left power vaccums in the middle east, but the middle east has always been a hot bed of religious infighting and turmoil........

Islam has been a threat to its own people because of its extremist for much longer then the US has been around......

To deny that is absolute willful ignorance...........

This Sunni/Shia conflict is just the latest in a long line of infighting from Islam........

You can try and defend the Sunni perspective all you want but im not buying it, ive watched you do it on other threads.......

Been there done that......you cant pull the wool over my eyes

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

The delicate balance that Iraq had come to was shattered by the US invasion.

That’s a fact, and those that initiated the invasion were warned by sober intelligent people including even Russia what an invasion would tear apart.
THE INVASION OF Iraq was probably the most horrendous act of the 21st century, a virtual holocaust.

So America IS TO BLAME for the condition of Iraq...George Bush/Cheney inc...
All historians of any repute will record that fact

We knew this would happen because it occurred when Tito died, the tearing apart of Yugoslavia, that was held together by the strong man Tito.

So the excuse that America isn’t to blame when at least Saddam held the delicate balance of the Iraqi state together is bogus.

They also, America, under Obama, helped destroy the nation of Libya that is now in a state of destruction because of the murder of the strong man Khadaffi and the support of NATO in overthrowing him.

There trying hard to do the same to Syria.

America has a lot of blood on its hands

a reply to: Willtell

Im not saying America doesn't have blood on their hands, but this is brown people killing brown people, Muslims killing other Muslims,

Blame America all you want but that was not an American holding up that baby's head.

There are too many people making too much money off of the "War on Terror." This particular war is MUCH better than a traditional war because the enemy is constantly changing. Invading a country and forcing a regime change is too quick and easy compared to decades of chasing tiny cells of extremists from nation to nation. The military industrial complex finally found an enemy that could keep the war machine going indefinitely and when things slow down, they'll just fund another group of "rebels."

It will continue to perpetuate until they find another way to justify the trillions wasted.

Tyrants learned long ago that the easiest way to gain money and power is to create fear and then offer protection.

If I pay someone to break into your house twice, I won't have much trouble selling you an alarm system.

originally posted by: caterpillage
I don't anything we have done in the Middle East has ever been about "fixing" anything. It's about money and power. The us politicians and big money men couldn't care less about the people there, or likely here for that matter. Just the money.

The Pentagon Papers was a real eye opener, since it contained 5,000 pages of how to wage war. For generals its a science. For elites, its about raising the stakes in their oil investments. The Bush family, the Saudi royal family and the billionaire Bin Laden (father of Osama) acquisitioned common holdings in oil and small and manufacturing (see the Carlyle Group) prior to the first Gulf War in the late eighties.

They invested jointly in oil and weapons, and as heads of state could create the conditions for conflict that would increase the value of their vested interests. The oil has risen from around $10.00 a barrel in the late eighties to about $160.00 a barrel today due to war. It's a simple equation and a shame that Patriotism is so well orchestrated (and people so emotionally vulnerable to it) that they jump at the opportunity to sacrifice their lives, not to preserve a way of life, but to suffer pure hell for a small group of elites who are educated, informed and well equipped to get the willful efforts of the masses.

I used to think this was so sinister, but in reality, people are just not as intellectually developed as the elites are to see the bigger picture. Most people would rather deny it than even consider the obvious facts. I felt allot of compassion for the tens of thousands of marriages and families destroyed in America, and of course the millions who have lost their future in Iraq and Afghanistan as the result. Nevertheless, without a deeper interest by ordinary people, those holding the reigns of power and the purse strings will continue to engineer our future until there is nothing left.

originally posted by: alienjuggalo
a reply to: Willtell

Im not saying America doesn't have blood on their hands, but this is brown people killing brown people, Muslims killing other Muslims,

Blame America all you want but that was not an American holding up that baby's head.

The nations in that part of the world are controlled by iron-fisted dictators for a reason... that type of rule is the only style that will keep things under control. Team America has decided to "bring democracy" to these countries which has destroyed the balance of power allowing groups like ISIS to do as they wish. This truly is a "lesser of two evils" situation and, unfortunately, the US is currently in the business of siding with the eviler of the two.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: DarknStormy

I love how people try to justify your countries innocence when the truth is Iraq was a stable country before US intervention

I love how people try to blame the west for a violent ideology that has been around since before the US was a country....


The US may have funded, and left power vaccums in the middle east, but the middle east has always been a hot bed of religious infighting and turmoil........

Islam has been a threat to its own people because of its extremist for much longer then the US has been around......

To deny that is absolute willful ignorance...........

This Sunni/Shia conflict is just the latest in a long line of infighting from Islam........

You can try and defend the Sunni perspective all you want but im not buying it, ive watched you do it on other threads.......

Been there done that......you cant pull the wool over my eyes

Would this be the same America whose violent ideology slaughtered millions of Native Americans and based a national textile economy on African Slavery?

We're up against religious extremists who believe that America is the ideal target for their divine agenda to eliminate anyone who isn't Muslim.

The methods of protecting us against that threat are best left to people who know what they're doing rather than people who want to ignore it and assume they will be safe when they do.

Everything we're doing in the middle east is designed to protect America, its stability, its economy, our way of life, and our lives. I trust the decisions being made by the commanders guiding the war and am thankful that they are doing as good of job and as clever of a job that they are doing to keep religious extremists out of our country.

If America did nothing to destabilize these religious extremists strongholds, America would become unrecognizable. In a short time, it could be reduced to a third world country. Our infrastructure could be in shambles. The people would resort to complete anarchy, and we would become increasingly more vulnerable to the people who were perpetuating our destruction- the same people who vow to destroy us and have proven that they can do it if given the chance. I would rather live in peace, without fear.