The polar ice caps are MELTING!

a reply to: FinalCountdown
Oh.
Sort of like how a seemingly small amount of CO2 can end up having a pretty big effect?

Just goes to show, how unpredictable mother nature is. I live 50+meters above sea level so even if all the ice melts again all that would happen with me is i will get new beach front property.

Plant the World.

The facts - CO2 is the biggest factor in long term global temperature trends. CO2 has risen dramatically (unprecedentedly) in the last 100 years or so. May just marked the 351st consecutive month with a global temperature above the 20th century average. Global warming is real, whether you like it or not - it doesn't care about your agenda..

www.wunderground.com...
climate.nasa.gov...
www.ncdc.noaa.gov...

Ether way, hands up here who will opt out of modern society, This really is like someone cutting a tree down turning it in to paper and writing save the tree's on it. No one really cares, even when presented with basic methods of lowering the Co2 levels over a period of time.

Plant the World

This year my self for my own pollution Co2 out puts i have planted over 240 tree's. Physical action physical conversion. my guess is there would not be many people here that do that year after year. In 30 years time it will be great to see the small native corridors in full growth.

The above is something i love doing I love nature so i try to put back as much as i can and if it has small positive effects so be it, if not they still look great.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I don't think there is any question that "humans" will "survive" AGW, at least in the short term.

The questions are: How high will the water get, and how fast? How many humans live below that level now? How many humans will be affected directly by the death or migration of all of those humans to higher ground? What will be the economic and social cost of this migration, and how can we prevent, delay or mitigate this damage, should sea levels rise by this amount?

I live in Denver. You could melt the polar Ice Caps and I would never even know it unless I turn on the news. However -- the social and economic forces unleashed by 70 million refugees suddenly moving into my neighborhood? Well, thats the real concern, isn't it?

a reply to: Phage

You don't need satellites to make maps. Been done for centuries ....

antiquesandthearts.com...

a reply to: glend

You don't need satellites to make maps. Been done for centuries ...

So, ships were making extensive surveys of the extent of Arctic sea ice? That data includes the Bering Sea? Siberia?
Do any of the charts look like they did last August?

Do you really think it isn't warming?

Phage question, If all the Ice melted at the end of the last ice age how much would that throw out the data on all previous ice ages start dates and end dates the period in between ice ages, what other factors will this have on the other predicted history of this rock we call home..?

a reply to: Legion2024
We are currently in an ice age. The last time there was no polar or glacial ice was about more than 2.5 million years ago.

Other than that, I have no idea what you are asking.

a reply to: Phage

ok So in the op's paper it suggests in part that all the ice melted "extensively or completely" If the later is true, then maybe total melts have happen many times . With out the records of ice layering from the last ice age how do we know what went on.?

And yeah i know we are still in an ice age, end of the ice age ether way.

a reply to: Legion2024

With out the records of ice layering from the last ice age how do we know what went on.?

Now I think I understand better what you are asking. The OP's paper is not talking about the global loss of ice, it is talking about the loss of ice on Greenland which may have occurred during the last interglacial period. Glacial and interglacial periods are not the same as ice ages. During the last interglacial period (the Eemian), which the article is about, we were still in the current ice age. There were still Antarctic ice sheets and glaciers came and went during that period. As to how do we know it happened, the paper describes it. It is based on the nature of ice found, it indicates that is ice from very early in the formation of an ice sheet.

However, that article is from 1989, a very early coring project. There have been samples taken at other locations in Greenland which show that the entire Greenland ice sheet did not disappear during the Eemian.

Between 128,000 and 122,000 years ago, the thickness of the northwest Greenland ice sheet decreased by 400±250 metres, reaching surface elevations 122,000 years ago of 130±300 metres lower than the present.

homepages.vub.ac.be...
There was still plenty of ice there. It's now more than 3,000 meters thick.

And yeah i know we are still in an ice age, end of the ice age ether way.

Ice ages last a very long time, as I said this one started "only" about 2.5 million years ago. Previous ice ages lasted 10s of millions of years so no, we are not at the end of an ice age. The last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago.

a reply to: Phage

I believe the oceans have warmed from increased solar activity which resulted in the increased melting of the arctic ice. But when the oceans start to cool down (albeit a ~10 year lag) the arctic ice shelf will return to its previous size.



Old discussion....
motls.blogspot.com.au...

a reply to: glend

I believe the oceans have warmed from increased solar activity which resulted in the increased melting of the arctic ice.

Open solar flux has to do with the solar wind. That doesn't really have much to do with warming. Total solar irradiance is what you want to look at. That's what heats the atmosphere. That "W" is for Watts. That's heating energy.
www.mnn.com...
Well, there was slight increase in solar activity up until 1960 but the trouble is, whatever correlation there may have been sort of went away, and so did the ice. That's a bit more than 10 years.

a reply to: Phage

I wouldn't think solar flux would effect weather either but if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck....
c3headlines.typepad.com...

They have mapped solar flux using various techniques back to 1650's. It was very low in 1650 and has been in steady since until 2000 when it dive bomb.

If death and displacement was a true concern of Govt's.and the people then I would think the war machine is a much bigger threat and am quite sure the numbers associated with it $$ , death ,and refugees are enormous .The Arctic ice melting has no effect on the rise of the oceans and the Antarctic seems to be growing . It's not new though ,because there have been warm periods in the past with lots of melting .

Study links Greenland ice sheet collapse, sea level rise 400,000 years ago

CORVALLIS, Ore. – A new study suggests that a warming period more than 400,000 years ago pushed the Greenland ice sheet past its stability threshold, resulting in a nearly complete deglaciation of southern Greenland and raising global sea levels some 4-6 meters.

The study is one of the first to zero in on how the vast Greenland ice sheet responded to warmer temperatures during that period, which were caused by changes in the Earth’s orbit around the sun.

Results of the study, which was funded by the National Science Foundation, are being published this week in the journal Nature.

“The climate 400,000 years ago was not that much different than what we see today, or at least what is predicted for the end of the century,” said Anders Carlson, an associate professor at Oregon State University and co-author on the study. “The forcing was different, but what is important is that the region crossed the threshold allowing the southern portion of the ice sheet to all but disappear.

wattsupwiththat.com... a reply to: 0zzymand0s

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Greven

Melting its not.....
Arctic Ice

What does this have to do with anything I wrote? I'm tired of debating climate change with people, but I sure as heck am going to point out disinformation when I see it so obviously like this.

I specifically highlighted a glaringly terrible graph, and drew nice helpful lines to show why it's complete garbage and lies. The person who posted that graph has yet to return since his disinformation dump, but his garbage sure has earned the praise of others in this thread (or at least those passing by).

a reply to: Greven

Disinformation is when you write the polar capS are melting when NOAA has said the Antarctic sea ice reached its highest levels extent on record.

www.pbs.org...

So stop with the LIE's. I am sick of tactics used by global warming fear mongers.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Greven

Disinformation is when you write the polar capS are melting when NOAA has said the Antarctic sea ice reached its highest levels extent on record.

www.pbs.org...

So stop with the LIE's. I am sick of tactics used by global warming fear mongers.

Please review the thread and my posts therein. I have written no such thing, and you are embarrassing yourself.

You clearly have me confused with someone else in your vitriol

a reply to: Greven

I seem to have gotton you mixed up with the guy you were responding too. Please accept my apologies, I will be more careful in future.

a reply to: network dude

You need to do your homework. The southern polar ice caps are NOT melting but expanding.

Polar ice caps have melted and expanded throughout history.