*BREAKING* Ukraine signs partnership with the EU, in a move opposed by Russia

a reply to: Nettlas

Oh, I know how to use it

That wasn't a shot at you, sorry if it seemed that way.

But there are those who have great computers that don't actually know how to use them.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Haha yeah I know that man

Im an easy going person and I can take pretty much whatever anyone throws at me without being offended personally and just brush it off.

And by the way, just so you know, I fully respect your opinion in the matter and I find it good to be able to write to one another without resorting to be a jerk to eachother.

Take care /Robert

The scenarios are mind boggling. The conflict between the king of the north and king of the south from the book of Daniel chapter 11 are playing out. We are also seeing Isaiah chapter 17 taking place with the Syrian situation. I also see Jeremiah chapter 4 , Ezekiel 38 , and Revelation 6 and 9 having impact. Please pray for the USA and Russian people.

This is of course completely expected. When the USSR collapsed certain nations moved toward the West, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungry, The Chech and Slovak republics, Rumania, Latvia, Estonia, Lithaunia. Others remained with Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Armenia, and some of the Stans. One side prospered that went with the West, they saw their infrustructure rebuilt, trade explode, unemployment drop, slashed military spending yet increased their own security etc. The other side that stayed with Russia saw not much change stagnate economies, decline in infrastructure, wasting money on bloated out of date militaries and anytime they wanted to trade with the West a big smack down from Russia.

So of course if you see nations that were at the same level as you at one time now having moved far beyond you, that is what you want as well.

Russia knows this and it knows it is all but helpless to stop it which is why it went for desperate measures in the Crimea to try and salvage something. The best Russia can hope for is that these nations do not officialy join NATO and end up being like Sweden and Finland unofficial NATO members so no NATO troops stationed there. For Russia this front is lost.

The next front is the souther border nations and losing them to China or the West. Overseas it is even worse. Its friends in Cuba, Veneuala, Syria are on the verge of becoming failed states. Iran is quickly moving to the West after Russia's failures to protect Libya or Syria. India is happy to buy Russia weapons but, wants little to do with them beyond that. And Vietnam Russia seconf most important arms market after India is under threat from China. Forcing Russia into a position of confronting China before it is ready or losing Vietnam to the West as well.

I expect when Putin is gone the Russia that will be left will either be a broken state on the verge of collapse or alive and desperate enough to joing the EU.

Russia has always counted on a unlimited source of manpower, massive space and troops that march off to die enmass for the motherland. All those things are gone now. Russia must adapt or die.

a reply to: Nettlas

And by the way, just so you know, I fully respect your opinion in the matter and I find it good to be able to write to one another without resorting to be a jerk to eachother.

Yes something that doesn't happen as often as it should on ATS.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Nettlas

And by the way, just so you know, I fully respect your opinion in the matter and I find it good to be able to write to one another without resorting to be a jerk to eachother.

Yes something that doesn't happen as often as it should on ATS.

Amen

originally posted by: Yule C Mann
The scenarios are mind boggling. The conflict between the king of the north and king of the south from the book of Daniel chapter 11 are playing out. We are also seeing Isaiah chapter 17 taking place with the Syrian situation. I also see Jeremiah chapter 4 , Ezekiel 38 , and Revelation 6 and 9 having impact. Please pray for the USA and Russian people.

here u go,,

a reply to: gladtobehere

EU is no longer "a mere organization"...
Van Rompuy is pursuing his dream of turning this already a "superstate" into the USE, the notoriously known United States of Europe, upon which Nigel Farage remarked during EU parliament debates since 2009. Although, no such plans have ever been admitted by either H. van Rompuy or J. Manuel Barroso, our bloody presidents.

Many american kids and students already recognize Europe as one single state.
Soon enough, they will be right.

European kids know NYC, LA, Washington, Miami are in the USA.
American kids know London, Paris, Rome, Barcelona are in the EU. (But from my experience, they mostly prefer saying Europe instead of EU)

There is no sovereignty any more.
Sometimes I feel sad about it, and frankly sometimes, I just don't care.

Orwellian states are closer than we think...

People talk about official history, but just because you were told it happened that way dosent mean it actually happened that way.

A example is the Katyn Massacre that the Germans committed against the polish. The Germans murdered 25,000~ Polish people by shooting them in the head.

The whole purpose of ATS is to question everything official, after all this site is about searching for the truth.

The Massacre was actually committed by the Russians, but the USA and Britain who knew it was the Russians wanted the Germans blamed as it was great Propaganda against Germany. This became "history" for 50 years until the truth came out. Russia has finally release official documents from stalin authorizing the Massacre.

That's History for you...

Always look through the trees and you will see more than just wood.

Wiki Link on Katyn massacre

But on the main topic, Ukraine is now f***ed. Their factories that supply Russia will now close as the EU don't need their products. This is the start of the Russian pivot to Asia which want as much as Russia can produce. Also now watch Russia start to supply serious gear to Iran, Syria, China etc

A hate to America bash but their foreign policy under Obama is just stupid, mindless and without direction or logic. Bring back Clinton.

a reply to: Necrose

When you have fools for leaders what do you expect, give it some years and the peoples stance will change fast, give it a few more years and they would probably be begging Russia to take them back under there wing, thought there leaders who made the deals will probably be in the Bahamas somewhere by then. In this deal only the Ukrainian elite everybody else not so much, and it will only lead to more escalating conflict in the future.

Its standard procedures and they will part and parcel everything to the highest bidders and given contracts and set up shop, and who knows in a few years the Ukrainians to could be working at the local McDonald or gold mine or wallmart for pennies on the dollar as well. But hey you live you learn, and if they think its a warzone there now....What will they think when the heat really gets turned up and the whole globalization things tries to really push into Russia. The whole front of there government is stacked with fools and short sided idiots looking to make a quick buck, but hey so is pretty much every country out there, including the USA. And they will all fall like a stack of dominoes when there times come.

Obviously they have not learned that there is nothing "free" about a free trade zone.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Obviously they have not learned that there is nothing "free" about a free trade zone.

It puzzles me? What are the people thinking??

The People surly havent payied any attention to the costs of converting to the EU standard. The Ukraine have to spend billions which they dont have to rebuild everything from their laws, education; practically everything from the playground and up. Just to forfill their free trade obligations With the EU.

Ukraine is broke already. Ukraine wont be a member of the EU for at least a 100 years or more, if ever. The Ukraines dont have enough cash to forfill their free trade obligation.

This must be a desperate tactick from the EU as well. The EUs future financial prospect is only a 7 year span plan. Usually it is very difficult for a nation to apply for deals that Ukraine have been offered by the EU. The US/EU have gone on the limb to grasp Ukraina from Russia.

a reply to: spy66
I cant speak for Ukraine or the Ukrainian people, but I have a lot of Ukrainian friends and all of them before this whole thing got started said life there was more on the boring side then anything else and dont even really know what and how this whole thing got started. There proud of there heritage and break away from the USSR but the majority of them are kind of clueless on things, and really there is little difference between the two countries and people, its more just the fact that people are people and they would rather go there own way then have others tell them what to do. And I dont think they completely know what joining the EU would make them any freer then they were before or if it will ultimately be better then if they were under the Russian wing if you know what I mean.

The People surly havent payied any attention to the costs of converting to the EU standard. The Ukraine have to spend billions which they dont have to rebuild everything from their laws, education; practically everything from the playground and up. Just to forfill their free trade obligations With the EU. Ukraine is broke already. Ukraine wont be a member of the EU for at least a 100 years or more, if ever. The Ukraines dont have enough cash to forfill their free trade obligation.

That's the thing, you dont need to set up a free trade agreement for any of that stuff. Generally when people sell you free stuff, its anything but free and you will end up paying for it down the line and at a premium. Look at it like this, I have not been in the Ukraine, but some 7 years ago I was in the next country over. And really the country is in the EU, but the things they have built there since they joined in 2007 were in the process long before, I mean they have everything we do here, they even have there equivalent of Costco/wallchart I forgot the name of the place and it was a bit more of a Costco/Lowes type of place, most of the business and buildings there were started by either German, french or UK companies.

And really they would be there no matter under who's wing the country is under, its just good business, its a practical new market to tap into. I mean you have gas-stations there supplying gas from Russian companies and UK companies you have McDonald and you even have German stores or car shops as Germany is literally not far literally like there Canada and people have been shipping goods back and forth ever since the end of the war. So much so that last time I been there with family BMW were taxi's and I think you could get some BMW's there for cheaper then you could get a Honda.

And you have some french cellphones companies there building on there new market, I know because one of my cousins works for a company there, and even in the most backward places its starting to look like your average town in the US fast. But then again you have oil companies with the consent of the president making deals with foreign companies which are drilling and fracking in certain areas against the consent of the people living there, and you have other companies mining other areas. Basically you have a whole bag of mixed tricks, all of which would come to there sooner or latter with or without a free trade agreement, a free trade agreement is merely a fancy and complicated way of dividending were profits from resources really go, its more often then not just a fancy way of saying your going to get the short end of the stick or pie. People are just stupid enough to believe otherwise or that somehow others making speeches or pieces of paper saying there now free to trade will somehow make things better. Oh and they never read the small print.

As for the whole Ukraine thing, well like I said they probably had or were in the process of having there little slice of weternism complete with MacDonalds and all that, I even heard that from an Ukrainian friend who goes back and forth and was born there. Really what this is about, is probably the oil pipe lines and cutting in on Russian oil flow as well as there business, and considering that they will likely after the initial phase get oil from the Russians for cheaper. Well, you know how things work the free samples are just there to get you hooked before the prices change. That and cornering and monopolizing Eastern Europe, and off course likely building military basses there, which I do not think Russian will look to fondly on as they built the pipelines there, and that whole pesky thing of having other nations build military basses and stations so close to there borders, they probably do not look to fondly on.

Really I do not think the skirmishes for the Ukrainian people have even started yet, and its stupid to put yourself between two powerhouses both just looking for there interests, with short sighted leaders who are also looking for there interests. I mean how did that work in Africa or in the middle east? Not very well and it could potential lead to some more major skirmishes and lots more dead people.

Like I said its sort of pointless, as that African saying goes. "When the elephants fight its the grass that suffers" And really there is nothing any other nation or group could give them that would not at some point come to them eventually if for nothing more then the new markets a whole country would offer, the only crux is, on who's terms will it be? Because after all when there helping them recover there national dept there just moving zeros from one account into another before they let corporations and business interests move in, and they they Ukrainian people will have to pay all that back with interest. So really its free trade for whom? Or is it just a complicated way of sticking the bill on others and making a profit on that as well, and even there leaders are clueless to such things its basically a way constructs such as corporations or governments get free reigns on things to make up the rules so they can dictate how things will go down to there bottom dollar.

Its how to control nations and peoples 101, the free trade system, which off course if it was actually free you would not need it, like an ancient Greek philosopher once said if you need to install freedom then your not free, and none of this would be an issue, and not only that you already have all those companies moving in into Ukraine and some have been there for a while long before this whole skirmish with Russia started.

Really the only difference between most superpowers or nations or groups is the effectiveness of there PR teams. And lets face it the majority of people are just not smart enough to see beyond basic childish illusions much such as this, much less some of the major illusions going on in, and around, this planet we call earth.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I agree, doesn't the E.U. routinely throw its member states like Greece under the bus? I don't think you are far off on this, Wrabbit.

originally posted by: Necrose

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: Nettlas
This is just a setup from the west to trick Ukraine to go to war with russia under the pretext that west with NATO will give Ukraine support/help. And this will in the end lead to some kind of greater conflict so that profit can be made.

This is just like the years before world war 2 where Germany time and time again tried to solve the Danzig corridor issue thru diplomatic solutions with Poland. After several generous offers from Germany was ignored they started to show their teeth. However, Brittain spread disinformation to the Polish leaders, saying Germanys army was a joke and wouldnt stand a chance against the Polish army, and of course they would have full support from Brittain would it come a armed conflict between the two countries.

So Poland ignored Germany, based on the Brittish intelligence they got. Intelligence that was fabricated to start the second world war.

The Unknown history of the German-Polish conflict in 1939

This is a basic setup for war, constructed by west with promisses to Ukraine of "no harm will be done to you" when in fact its very likely Russia will stand by its word.

Profit man, its all about profits.

?????????????????????????????
Do you have a credible source for any of the remarkable statements above???

We live in 'post 1984' era, in which we can't say there exists a credible source anymore.

Orwellian state(s) support(s) Newspeak and Doublethink, where information, meanings and even words are crooked, muddly and vague.
This is an actual despair really. You have to choose what you want to believe, but you can't ask for sources any more... you would accept CNN as a source for these affairs? I wouldn't.

Everything may be fabricated, ...or may not be.
*sigh*

What an amazing bit of simplistic truth and insight

This should be displayed before any news report just as a joke but also as a reminder how much we are lied to.