Weird California sighting

I'm not sure if this would be best posted in this thread or maybe the "Green Flame" thread, or even the "Big Black Triangle, Breakaway" thread.

They all seem to be "inter-breeding" !

Nevertheless, IF there was a way to manufacture aerospace vehicles employing neutral buoyancy, say by the incorporation of "vacuum cell" technology, wouldn't the most natural location for a "base" for such a craft be in the upper atmosphere, rather than on the ground somewhere?

If we view this thing as sort of an "aeronautical submarine", isn't its natural habitat someplace where the air is thin to non-existent, rather than at the bottom of the atmospheric ocean?

I mean, submarines don't sink to the sea floor for routine maintenance and re-supply, do they?


Are there floating bases stationed around the globe at altitudes above 100,000 feet to routinely service a fleet of high-flyers?

Also,


If the very structure of your craft makes its neutrally buoyant at an altitude well above 100,000 feet, it wouldn't take much of a "push" from your vehicle's engine(s), whatever they may be, to pop you into low Earth orbit, would it?

And from there, who knows where you could go.

You would have mostly solved the major hurdle of spaceflight: the logistical problems of just reaching orbit economically.
The rest is just life support.



If all this is real...


I'm going to have to talk to someone about "Airships To Orbit" and a plate of crow.

originally posted by: Bhadhidar
If the very structure of your craft makes its neutrally buoyant at an altitude well above 100,000 feet, it wouldn't take much of a "push" from your vehicle's engine(s), whatever they may be, to pop you into low Earth orbit, would it?

And from there, who knows where you could go.

You would have mostly solved the major hurdle of spaceflight: the logistical problems of just reaching orbit economically.

Some of the more versed individuals in here may want to correct me but I don't think that is how orbital mechanics works. You need forward momentum to reach a minimum orbital speed at a given altitude thus the need for speed in reaching orbit.
If you were in a high flying balloon, you could reach high altitude but as soon as you lost that lift you would fall back to Earth.

a reply to: Sammamishman

You're right, it is mainly the velocity requirement that makes getting into orbit difficult and is the reason for the large amounts of fuel needed. BUT if you launch at 100,000ft ASL then it is much easier to get to the required velocity because you avoid having to accelerate through all the thick sticky air down here at breathable levels. You can save a lot of fuel that way.

a reply to: gfad

Hence Virgin Galactic concept of White Knight.

1956 DECLASSIFIED NACA REPORT (PROJECT ZIP)

The appearance of a boric oxide exhaust cloud from a turbojet engine operating on trimethyl- borate fuel (August 10, 1956)

archive.org...









more...

A review of naca research through 1954 on boron compounds as fuels for jet aircraft /project zip/ (April 12, 1957)

archive.org...

Zaph and Boomer....thank you!

DrWire....not sure of the relevance of TMB in this case, other than a potential green flame?

Perhaps this link might hint at something relevant :-)

www.plosone.org...

Listen to the light :-)

Cheers
Robbie

Similar technology to this might be interesting?

www.reactionengines.co.uk...

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
Similar technology to this might be interesting?

www.reactionengines.co.uk...

Cheers
Robbie

I believe that's the engine that they are using in england to achieve SSTO if I'm not mistaken?

originally posted by: boomer135

originally posted by: stratsys-sws
Similar technology to this might be interesting?

www.reactionengines.co.uk...

Cheers
Robbie

I believe that's the engine that they are using in england to achieve SSTO if I'm not mistaken?

Hi Zaphod, yeah it's in development here at the moment. That pre-cooler is pretty awesome....it drops the temperature of incoming air at Mach 5 from 1,000C to Minus 150 Celcius in 100 milliseconds. The technology enables an air breathing LOX/H2 rocket engine for atmospheric flight to Mach 5!

Cheers
Robbie

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Arpad

There will however, be some interesting information coming out, we hope, in the not too distant future. I can't say what it's about yet, but I promise it will be interesting.

This thread has gotten a little confused and fantasy filled.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the aircraft recently spotted at several locations and that Zaphod is suggesting has gone grey and will soon be revealed is Blackswift (the version that went black). It's development went black in 2008, six years ago now!

Mach 5+
JP-7 Fuel
Modernised J58 Powerplant converted to TBCC
Developed at Groom - Operating from Edwards
Part of LRS-B Group of aircraft
F2T2EA Design
Photographs appearing online taken from a JP-7 converted tanker

Lets see :-)

a reply to: stratsys-sws

strat, you say photos are online from a jp-7 tanker??? where are said photos! Been google imaging like a ninja but no dice yet.. All ive seen is the CGI versions and it seems no two are the same design :/

a reply to: stratsys-sws

I like this posts. It's certainly plausible that it is what you think. Although I would have a little more confidence in the engine system. More like Mach 6+ cruising speed with higher dash speeds.

I too would love to be pointed in the right direction for where to start searching for the jp7 tanker's photos of the blackswift or similar project.

Kingfyo1 I agree that the CGI pictures all look different. I believe I have a good idea if what this bird looks like and I don't think any of the depictions are close. I believe she has some qualities that aren't being disclosed on this thread or elsewhere that are achieved by her design. I believe they would show something completely different from the real design to hide these features. So basically throw away all the renderings of what the craft looks like. Also from what I understand the bird is much better looking than those orient express lawn dart looking things they show. Sleeker. more aggressive looking.

originally posted by: kingofyo1
a reply to: stratsys-sws

strat, you say photos are online from a jp-7 tanker??? where are said photos! Been google imaging like a ninja but no dice yet.. All ive seen is the CGI versions and it seems no two are the same design :/

Haven't got much time to post but just noticed this reply and had to respond immediately before anyone wastes any more time looking for pics having read my poorly written post! I was making a light hearted prediction that photos may appear taken by a boom operator who shall remain nameless sorry!!! I'm not aware of any photos yet.

Sorry
Robbie

a reply to: BASSPLYR

also, if they are calling the bird the blackswift then I would also look at the actual blackswift bird and learn about the interesting creature. Hard to find, rare, fast, sleek, articulate, nests in forbidden hard to reach places.

Also, I've often wondered about all the work the navy has gone into in shaping their screws to mitigate cavitation.

the green lady is an amazing aircraft and I bet once she's released for the public to see a real head turner with her looks.

so are we all in agreeance that the green lady is blackswift, Bassplyr? and I see what you're referring to with the design being possibly based off of the real birdie . Will have to do some research to see what you're referring to with the screw shaping the navy's done and I know damn well we are ALL in agreeance that she will be a real head turner!

a reply to: kingofyo1

I wouldn't go as far as the design is based off the real bird just that it might be useful to read up on the real bird and try and see what could have inspired naming the lady after her. Note the bird is not fat or rotund, but sleek, quiet and fast. But I tell you there is fruit in "rethink the wings" roll on the green lady. I wish I could articulate better, but my vocabulary isn't very adaptive, so my mind doesn't bend that way.

It will be an enormous leap in Aerospace if something like the 2008 project Blackswift flying now, but it was cancelled and since that we see nothing coming with a tbcc like engine sorry but i have a doubt...

There's canceled, then there's Canceled.

What Zap means to say is that it was "canceled" into the black world for development not "Canceled" completely and entirely as you're lead to believe

It would mean reading between the line with the word " canceled ". The near futur may be realy exciting