Weird California sighting

a reply to: BASSPLYR

www.reddit.com...

@Beetee
Just re- read the link from the above link and this stood out:

Retired USAF Lt. Col. Ed Herlik:

“It was succeeding so well that, when we cracked the last knot – survivability – and proved airships could go places people didn’t think they could go, they became a threat to other budgets and could not be tolerated anymore. So they went away – not because they did not work, but because they were going to work.”

Lockheed's making noise about openly announcing their hypersonic scramjet engine. Should be amusing.

originally posted by: Bedlam
Lockheed's making noise about openly announcing their hypersonic scramjet engine. Should be amusing.

Define "Amusing" usage in above post please.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

"We just developed this super awesome scramjet engine. Platform? Oh, no, we just did it for the lulz."

a reply to: Jukiodone

Hehe - they went away.
But not too far away perhaps :-)

Now survivability depends on:

Detection, targeting and destruction.

If it can't be easily destroyed, or hit, it will have greater survivability. That boils down to either armour or evasion. In this scenario perhaps agility and speed makes it very difficult to hit if targeted?

Then there is targeting. You can't, at least not effectively, target what you cannot see properly either on radar or by other means. Also all sorts of countermeasures might come into play here.

Then there is detection. You cannot target something that you don't know is there or which you cannot find. So this is perhaps the most crucial part here?

Have we left something out? Extraction perhaps? Not too big a problem for something you can hardly see.

So if you could take a proven LTA system, make it more like an aeroplane in terms of operational performance, but with some additional bonuses like VTOL and silent hover, some serious stealth and then dangle the space bit before the brass... Perhaps a lot of the misgivings would melt awaBT

A lot of speculation, but not that far fetched, perhaps? Maybe I'm missing something...

It would probably be a bit expensive though :-)

BT

a reply to: beetee

Lol Cost? dont you know why they pay 500 for a hammer and 10 k for a nail?

originally posted by: BASSPLYR

originally posted by: Bedlam
Lockheed's making noise about openly announcing their hypersonic scramjet engine. Should be amusing.

Define "Amusing" usage in above post please.

Depends on which one they're going to announce. Or, I should say, what's lumped under the 'miraculous new approach' they're going to reveal. Given the nature of the weasel wording, there's at least SOME possibility they're going to out the MHD thing that's been kicked around lately.

Because they're also going to pitch their concept hypersonic fighter with lasers built around the new system. I think. If not, then never mind (in Emily Litella voice)

a reply to: Bedlam

yeah that's pretty much where I was going with this. it's a dead give away if they start talking about lasers.

lasers are like the Swiss army knife of the decade. offensive, defensive, communications, .....other, aaaand another other.
if they back out and say oh yeah it's a tbcc I'll ben dissapointed.

I hope they don't actually do some press release where they actually talk about the bits n piecies. that's stupid in my opinion. just say it's new, it kicks ass, sorry popular mechanics no cutaway centerfold of the engine for you this time around.

a reply to: Bedlam

I looked up a couple PDF's based on MHD propulsion / generation... The plasma shaping before the aircraft sure reminds me of an odd sighting I posted about in another thread. Any chance this "Field" would be visible? And a pale yellow(ish) color?

Part of original sighting post below:
It appeared to be a "fast" jet liner moving away from me, but this appeared be an extremely large/thick/(almost glowing)contrail? The only problem being this contrail was new... tight... packed... and only what appeared to be 100-150' long (short, 1/8" , 1/16", gone). And the contrail was remaining "thick" and "bright" until it was disappearing, but it was disappearing as quickly as the aircraft was moving.

This was also near enough to me I should have seen the airplane (granted I would guess this to be a 30'k - 50k ft height.

I could see no aircraft, nothing other than this "contrail /field". Do we know of anything flying that would create a "roundish" white/grey/bright(almost pail-yellow) field around an aircraft? Or anything that would make a large, thick, but extremely short/fast disappearing contrail?... one where I couldn't see an aircraft?

This is only a guess based on my history in flight (flying lessons in cessna 150 / solo ride 13-16), now fly co-pilot twice a month in a King Air 350 (due to open seat, not due to any personal talent). With a love in aviation, military, black projects, etc I compare heights with other aircraft, and their contrails... very rarely can I see a contrail being made, but no hint of what's making the contrail.

I've seen several B-2s in this area... but never one that I couldn't see.. Was moving slightly faster than a normal aircraft, but not absurdly so.

Any ideas? No pics.. was driving down the highway, and the whole thing only lasted 90sec?

a reply to: Winterpain

hey when you say the contrail was glowing what color do you mean? are you sure it was close to you and at 30-50k? did it dissapear over the horizon? was the Field in the front bigger than the contrail in width or gauge? we're both the Field and the contrail the same color.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

the way I described it in the original post was it looked somewhat like a bright light source lighting up a moving cloud / fog as it went, but the light was moving with the cloud/fog. The best description of the color was a pail yellow (not green as everyone describes the green lady). I could see the lighted "fog" moving, but no aircraft body.

And it did not go over the horizon at all... just seemed to move out of sight. It was leaving what appeared to be a contrail. The contrail was extremely thick, but also extremely short. The contrail also disappeared extremely fast. From my perspective it seemed to only be a couple hundred feet behind the moving "fog" before it would disappear. It would also stay extremely well preserved (thick/straight/appeared newly formed) and then just vanish (which makes me think it wasn't a typical frozen vapor trail).

The glowing flog was pail yellow. The contrail a thick (and bright) white/grey.

And agreed, hard to tell the exact distance, but been an aircraft spotter my whole life/armature pilot, and this wasn't extremely high.. and did not start in the extreme distance (not exactly over my head, but close). It did move quickly, but I wouldn't say at an extreme way. Faster than a normal airliner, slower than a f-16 cruising.

Sighting was in northern center-state Missouri (60 miles North of Columbia Mo). Flying West.

Hope this helps,
Winter

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I forgot to add... the fog/field was larger than the contrail. By a good bit (wider.. almost oval), though not as long.

a reply to: Winterpain

definitely sounds like its not the green lady but does use something you proposed.
I usually describe the yellow as a dull candle flame whitish yellow.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Yep, that would be a good way to classify the color. Kinda shocked the field would be that large? Was more noticeable than a normal aircraft... just because of the oddity.

a reply to: Winterpain

Which thread was your sighting posted in? I recall reading it but not all the details. Specifically when and what time of day did you see this?

a reply to: Winterpain

Ever watch old NASA launches where the rocket engine was burning as they started getting out of the lower atmosphere and the flames started spreading way out?

Just came across this little thing, that albeit a sub, nevertheless shows what is possible in terms of fuel efficiency for a boyant vehicle. From Boeing. I guess some of you might have seen this, but here is the link:

Boeing unveils game-changing autonomous submarine

Now, I wonder what this "hybrid rechargeable power system" is...?

Also interesting that this is a wholly autonomous system, that can even depart from and return to base. So, basically, they just send it on its way, and it will do its thing, presumably without much human intervention? If we take into consideration the difficult medium it's supposed to operate in, it would probably be much easier for such an autonomous system to be efficient in the air, where date reception and transmission would seem to be a lot easier. The advantage of a sub-surface platform is, of course, that it is easier to hide in the sea than in the air. If you haven't got some pretty advanced stealth up your sleeve, that is.

Perhaps a little off-topic, but interesting with regards to operational autonomy and mission endurance for a buoyant platform.

BT

EDIT to add: And it seems Lockheed Martin has its own Marlin Mk3 AUV produced for the commercial marked. Just thought that too was interesting to note.

I maaaay have just ran across an explanation for what the green lady is fueled from. Check it! www.nasa.gov...

PIM recently passed a major flight readiness milestone with the successful completion of functional and environmental testing of its systems and software. The spacecraft is scheduled for launch in early 2017 and will demonstrate the practical capabilities of a hydroxyl ammonium nitrate based fuel/oxidizer propellant blend, known as AF-M315E, developed by the U.S. Air Force Research Laboratory at Edwards Air Force Base in California. The new propellant offers higher performance and is safer to handle and easier on the environment than traditional chemical fuels such as hydrazine currently used in spacecraft thrusters. It also requires fewer handling restrictions and has potentially shorter launch processing times, resulting in lowered costs.

More of the new propellant can be stored in propellant tanks of the same volume, resulting in a 50-percent increase in spacecraft maneuvering capability for a given volume. It also has a lower freezing point than hydrazine, requiring less spacecraft power to maintain the propellant temperature. These characteristics make it ideal for a wide range of emerging small, deep space satellite missions.

Edited to add: also this link goes into further detail regarding the green propellant mission:
www.nasa.gov...

a reply to: Winterpain

This PDF in particular is very telling.

I'm still wondering what the hubby and i saw one evening.From the SW(where we live,the hubby says Antarctica is that direction,for geo reference) came a brightly lit craft,at enormous speed.I watched it go towards the E sector of the sky.Then my hubby shouted at me to look behind me.There was an even faster craft coming from the SW,the speed was gobsmacking.It seemed to be chasing/homing in on the 1st craft.The 1st craft went into the NE -N sector then.The 2nd craft stopped in the sky when it to the E sector,and then did this strange "line" in the sky.It swooped straight down as if to land vertically,but then it made this swooping backwards arc,going into the backfield of the sky,the East compass point.We will never forget that sighting.