Florida Veteran May Lose Home For Displaying American Flag

There is no justification for this. An American Military Veteran, in the United States, gets fined for flying a miniature American flag in a flower pot on his front porch - he might even lose his house over it.

A Florida veteran battling his homeowner's association after they put a lien on his house, over a small American flag he is flying in one of his flower pots.

The stars and stripes are at the center of controversy. At least at Larry Murphree's home.

"I want it to go away. It's such a minor little thing and they keep coming after me," insists Murphree.

"They" is Murphree's Homeowner's Association. He's lived in the Sweetwater Community for years, and been at odds with the HOA for more than two, and it's all because of his flag.

The veteran decided to put one in his flower pot, and in result, has been fined!

"They just sent me a letter that says I owe them around $8,000 and they put a foreclosure lien on my house," he said.

We wanted to know how that's possible, so we took our questions to our legal and safety expert Dale Carson.

"There's an actual Florida statute that says he can display this flag," said legal and safety expert Dale Carson.

Federal law from 2005 also backs that up.

www.myfoxphilly.com...

This is just ridiculous!

I'm not even American and I'm bothered by this.

What's even more insane is that his Home Owners Association would go after him over this.

Veteran or not, he should be able to fly his American flag. When I lived in Middle Georgia they let us fly our Canadian flag high and proud, what has happened since then? I know things have changed but come one! This is beyond comprehension...the only motive I can think of is money...but gladly it looks like there is no way they will actually be able to win this. This Veteran will not give up and appears to have the law on his side, I wonder how much in legal fees this is going to cost him though?

"There's an actual Florida statute that says he can display this flag," said legal and safety expert Dale Carson.

Federal law from 2005 also backs that up.

Attorney Michelle Haines works for the law office who represents the HOA, and said if payment is not made within 30 days, the law can move forward with the foreclosure on Murphree's home.

Last year, after a similar fight, he filed a lawsuit and settled out of court, but the flag display rules have been re-written since then. Murphree says he won't stop until he can freely fly his patriotic right.

I'm confident that this will anger many fellow ATS members, and rightfully so. I've participated in various threads about the flag and flag etiquette which I may have not been too popular in, but this goes beyond that. As much as many people dislike the American government and their policies, the USA is for the most part full of good hard working people who are being screwed on a daily basis by their government from the Municipal level all the way up to the Federal level.

The same crap is happening here in Canada too - to a lesser extent, but we're catching up quick.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

This is stupid, no reason to have that rule I agree. Parents lived in a HOA growing up and they were freaking crazy!
Have one thing out of regs and you had a letter the next day if not the same day.

But seems the backing in these type of threads is that if the rule is there, why does he get to break it?
He says he just wants this all to go away, well then either move or don't put the flag there.

And what does him being a veteran have anything to do with it?
Would a the average citizen not get the same outrage?

a reply to: Sremmos80

You raise a good point about the "rules".

But this is just stupid, what's next? No porch lights?

I'm not even religious but I'm praying that no one pulls the "if he doesn't like it he can move" card.

LOL!

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

But the "if he doesn't like it then he can move" has merit IMO.
They go over the rules with you when you move into HOA, he may not have noticed it or didn't think that rule was unjust at the time but he still chose to live there with that rule in place. Must be the rest of residents don't have a problem with it if they are still enforcing it and still fining the man.
Go find a place that doesn't have a HOA or find on that allows flags in flower pots.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Well what I would suggest in this instance is to have the rules for the HOA revised.

I would like to see the specific rule that says he can't do this. It probably falls under something generic that could apply to anything but according to the article they claim the law is on his side so hopefully this will lead to a revision of the HOA rules.

I don't think the "if you don't like it move" card holds merit - not in a logical society at least.

Sadly I often doubt the logic of the society which we live in.

People should be able to fly the flag if they want but he said he would follow the rules when he moved there. Don't move somewhere then cry about the rules. This is why I would never move to anywhere that has a homeowner's association. Anyone that moves to a place that allows someone else to tell you what you can or cannot do with your home is an idiot.

a reply to: buster2010

I agree with your statement that people should be able to fly the flag.

But I worry about those who embrace the rules. I would like to think this is a rule that Americans would attempt to change. If your country has devolved to this and people are defending it, I don't know what else to say - it's your country.

ETA:

My main point is that the United States should not allow certain associations to micro-manage certain aspects that fall within your Constitution and Bill of Rights. Please correct me as I might be wrong, but isn't it every American's right to fly the American flag?

Reason #234,691 why I wouldn't have a house in an HOA if someone GAVE it to me.

I love me some veterans, I do. Why the hell would anybody want to move somewhere where they can dictate your choice of door mat, blinds, flowers, etc.? WHY??

I feel for this guy, I do. I think the rule is stupid and this is a power struggle, but he will not win it. He signed on the dotted line, and in doing so gave up his right to fly the flag in his flowerpot.

Do I think he should be able to fly it? Absolutely.
Are they going to let him? Absolutely not.

a reply to: Sremmos80

At his age, moving isn't in the cards. He's in the house he's going to die in.

Also, being a vet doesn't make much a difference other than creating more outrage because us vets are like....sacred cows or something. I don't know.

He could have easily avoided it by not putting it there. But on the other side of the coin, the HOA could not be such a-holes about the countries flag.

I have a love/hate relationship with HOAs. They can be good and bad. Mostly bad, though.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

The man is a veteran, and a patriot. He should be allowed a damned flag on his frontage if he wants one. For those saying "well, if you do not like the rules, you should not have moved in there in the first place" I have only this to say.

Rules which are not just, are not enforceable in a just society. Even the best attempts to enforce such rules, will only last for a certain amount of time, at which point that system will collapse under the weight of its own staggering bloody stupidity.

That does not mean that until they do, everyone should just bow down and lick the proffered sphincter.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

I would say it is their right to fly what ever flag they wanted, not ole glory specifically.
So as long as they don't allow any flags and are not just dis-allowing the American, not sure why he is breaking the rules he agreed to.

I'm surprised that we aren't seeing more outrage here.

The fact that these associations are able to micro-manage your rights this extremely should cause one to question what has happened to their country. I'm not disrespecting Americans, we have similar things here in Canada but believe it or not we actually have less rights.

I never thought that the United States would allow rules that prevent its flag from being flown.

HOA's are a dangerous thing and someone who is not even a part of one can be victimized.

For example, a few years ago in my town a HOA was formed by two relatively new residents on a block and soon expanded to most of the residents on the block. The co-founders of this then HOA then placed liens against the non-members homes, claiming that because these residents failed to maintain their property to the local HOA's standards their property values had suffered.

Keep in mind this HOA was formed by two newcomers to the locale, while every other homeowner had been there for many years in most cases.

Some of the 'violations' listed that were used to justify the liens were:

-The offending parties yards were not 'professionally' maintained (ie did not have the pretty, alternating striping pattern)
-Often more than 7 days would pass between lawns being mowed, leading to an unacceptable grass height
-Sidewalks were not kept free of yard debris; grass clippings, leaves and also had grass growing between the expansion joints
-One of the homes had a clothesline
-One home had a garden shed with shingles that did not match the home.
-One home had a garden shed that not only had shingles that didn't match the house, but also was a different color than the home
-Two homes also had vegetable gardens

So these three offending homes had liens placed on them by the HOA that was co-presided between two families on the block. This wound up in court and surprisingly/thankfully the court sided with the families that weren't a part of the HOA.

The three families that had been attacked then filed a counter-suit that left the two founders of the HOA penniless

a reply to: TrueBrit

Looks like there's a major case of Stockholm Syndrome going around ...and it's highly contagious.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

Yes, and when you move into an HOA, you do that willingly....They go over the rules before you buy the house.
He knew this was against the rules but did not care and he is seeing the consequences.
He has multiple options to make this go away and still continue his fight.

I can't imagine this has not come up at the meetings of the HOA before this.
Wonder if he has tried getting a petition or anything or if he just keeps drinking more water for the contest.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

There's not a lot of outrage because these are not laws that all of us have to follow. Most of the country would not follow these rules which is why most of the country doesn't choose to live in a hitleresque HOA. These are rules one has agreed to follow when they decided to purchase their home on an area that is overseen by an HOA.

Nobody is forced to purchase a home in an HOA. People that choose the option, usually choose it because they are picky about what their neighborhood looks like and want to be sure it never gets run down to the point of bringing their own property values down. They never have a problem with it UNTIL it hits home for them. Which is the way it is for most folks.

I think it's a stupid rule. But I also think HOA's are a little stupid as well. I chose to buy my house in a place where I could have The Roaming Gnome doing the steeple chase all the way around my house in his underwear if I want to. Nothing anybody can do or say about it.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

Please correct me as I might be wrong, but isn't it every American's right to fly the American flag?

That depends on the location. If you rent then the owner of the building has the right to say whether you can fly one or not because the property doesn't belong to you. The article in the op does make a good point though the ruling in the 2005 case says he has the right to fly the flag because he does own the home. The big question is if the loses those rights when he signed an agreement saying he couldn't fly the flag.

So, we have 600k laws that we have to follow. But for some, that isn't enough. They like to go above and beyond. So they volunteer to follow a whole bunch of other laws/rules by purchasing into an HOA. Why?

The guy in the OP....yeah, he's a vet. So what? He still chose to live under an HOA. His signature is on the paperwork. He gets no pity from me.

what gets me is someone who is willing to fight for freedom in another country seems so willing to cede those freedoms when he buys his home.

a reply to: Corruption Exposed

So an HOA made a visible display of patriotism illegal.

pa·tri·ot·ism
noun \ˈpā-trē-ə-ˌti-zəm, chiefly British ˈpa-\

: love that people feel for their country


Basically, they made a visual display expressing an emotion, illegal.

a reply to: Lipton

If some newcomers were to try and pull that stunt where I come from, then they would likely be replacing slashed tires and broken windows frequently. HOA's are out of control all over the US, it is sad to see so many defend them when in some cases the home owner has no choice and finds themselves in an 'imminent domain' type of battle with the HOA.

I fail to understand why some would want to enforce a ridiculous rule on something like a small American flag. Now that this story has some PR, maybe the HOA will back off or the veteran will be able to find some legal help. I want to see this guy stand his ground against a HOA that is out of line.