Blackaface is it racist?

a reply to: crazyewok

No I personally don't find it racist like I didn't think Eddie Murphy was being racist in coming to America or any other black actors.

a reply to: blupblup

You will find its just a BRITISH MEDIA thing for them to blow up and start something to sell papers. Its not offensive and europe as a whole does not find it or use it that way!!

Thanks to countries like Britain where the average person gets offended and writes into a paper or complaints column over the smallest incident. Grow up!!

I hate this PC thing....moan moan moan....over nothing....!

If I paint my face blue, is offensive to Smurfs? Or people who have taken too much colloidal silver?

a reply to: crazyewok

I was listening to my local sports channel and they were saying that some of the German fans were in black face when their team was playing Ghana? Didn't get the impression that they were being supportive of Ghana...

Honestly that sounds ridiculous that someone would paint their face black to support black players? We can all say on here that it's a form of flattery but it makes no sense to me...it would make no more sense that some black fans painting their face white to support some players...sounds absurd...

Context people context! for those who don't know, the Black faced imagery in America had a long history in it's use to demean and caricaturize people of African descent along with a whole list of other images in popular culture of the past,some with an especially sick and nasty pedigree ,on your own goole Babies used as gator bait ,there is memorabilia connected with that once very real practice , and many popular racist songs of the Jim Crow era,


Babies used as gator bait

Pencil holder from the 60ts

Well some may say come on Spider isn't it time Blk folks stop getting offended over stuff like this and move on..and I'd say there would nothing most blk folks would rather do,but if people out there willing to remind them that they are anything less than human then moving on become near impossible don't you think?

The Moor Of Freising used for the last pope's insignia.
Now Black face in Europe have a very mixed set of circumstances and historical context than the American versions, although it falls in the category of caricature and is much older this tell the story of contacts between Black men and White men sometimes as antagonist ( Christians Vs Moors ) sometimes as religious allusion either as the devil or a trusted ally very often one of the three wise men of the east bearing gift,most often is seen as an allusion to the universality of the Church.

St Maurice Christianity's first Knight

Blacks as enemies of the church and followers of the anti-Christ

Black being viewed as part of group of Christian guards.

Morris Dancers that's.. "Moorish" Dancers engaging in stick fighting

Andalusians commemorating the final defeat of the Moors in Spain wearing Black face.

Zwart Piet or black peter a companion of Santa Claus

The question for Black folks is knowing when to get offended and that all depends on context.

a reply to: Spider879

I understand the minstral thing in tne US.

But why should Europeans care of be affected by what stupid raceist americans did a few decades back?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Spider879

I understand the minstral thing in tne US.

But why should Europeans care of be affected by what stupid raceist americans did a few decades back?

Within the bounds of their own culture I guess they shouldn't be, the problem is when they mimic racist aspect of American culture,example showing up black face throwing bananas on the field and making monkey noises not saying that this is what happened here,but that did happened on previous occasions,and lets be frank they damned well knew this might be upsetting after all they are in a foreign country it's the same kind of insensitivity I would rightly be taken to tasked for should I display

this Ashanti Swastika (Ghana) on a flag ,chain or painted face while Ghana is playing Israel off-course one swastika have nothing to do with the other but symbols and their messages do matter and can get misinterpreted often, and I am reasonably sure those fans aren't from some small hamlet in Germany decided to reenact some quint folk tradition at the games on the spur of the moment.
The potential downside to all this is that a riot could have ensued,matter of fact one German idiot did walked out on the field wearing a swastika painted on his chest and was kindly escorted off he field by one of the Ghanaian players.

One more thing that blackface thing with all that nasty history still takes place at campus parties all across America, I know the difference between an insult and art one may cause me to double over in uncontrollable laughter and the other can have someone flat on their back looking up at me.

Art: funny not racist

a reply to: Spider879

Actually, no. It just shows the double-standard. Look what happened when a celeb showed up at party dressed up as character from Orange It the New Black. The problem was that she happened to be white and the character happened to be black. They still blasted her for it. How is the movie any different?

I know I've made the same point you did about why it's considered racist, but I actually think it's ridiculous, too, like many others here. We should stop being captive to our history.

There is a clear difference between replicating a minstrel show and dressing up as a character. Why shouldn't my son be allowed to dress up as Samuel L. Jackson's version of Nick Fury if he wants to, up to and including darkening his face? If the kid across the street wants to play Tony Stark and whiten his face, more power to him. They're emulating characters, not mocking anyone's race.

a reply to: crazyewok
I leave it up to those who are on the receiving end to determine whether or not it is offensive. I can have an opinion as to intent, but their perception is not up to me.

Meanwhile, Eddie Murphy does the definitive whiteface...made me laugh!
White Like Me

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Spider879

Actually, no. It just shows the double-standard. Look what happened when a celeb showed up at party dressed up as character from Orange It the New Black. The problem was that she happened to be white and the character happened to be black. They still blasted her for it. How is the movie any different?

I know I've made the same point you did about why it's considered racist, but I actually think it's ridiculous, too, like many others here. We should stop being captive to our history.

There is a clear difference between replicating a minstrel show and dressing up as a character. Why shouldn't my son be allowed to dress up as Samuel L. Jackson's version of Nick Fury if he wants to, up to and including darkening his face? If the kid across the street wants to play Tony Stark and whiten his face, more power to him. They're emulating characters, not mocking anyone's race.

You know I saw a lil of that hooplah about that actress but I am willing to bet bottom dollar that it wasn't black folks who tripped over themselves denouncing that girl playing dress-up but White Liberals who at their worst will go nanny state on us real fast, as was said do the black face red-lips fried chicken water melon thing that would more than likely spark a wtf response from blk folks,...btw I am politically liberal myself but some of us do go too nanny state and P.C for my taste.
In general black folks know what's offensive all black face are not created equal ...btw

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

I agree. It's hard for any group to come to a consensus on what is offensive or not. That's because we each have our own opinions and sensitivities. Some are going to be offended, some aren't.

Many of the same people who say that black face is not offensive are highly offended by the art piece called Piss Christ. That's because the artwork reflects something about their personal religion. If it's personal and perceived to be an insult, it's going to be found as offensive.

It's not really for us to label something as offensive or not. It would be much more accurate to say that I am or am not offended by something.

Well, where I once lived there were these folks working in a coal-mine. When their working day was over they came up to the ground with black faces. My sister said that those miners are racist. I explained to her that they get all dirty because of the work they do, and she said "if you think blacks are dirty, you're a racist too!". It was a misunderstanding of course. "I didn't say blacks are dirty, I said that their faces get black in the coal mines because its a different kind of black, from the coal. And besides, you've had sex with one of those miners". To which she responded: "Me? I've never had sex with minors!". So one misunderstanding just led to the next with all these sensitive topics.

Anyway, I don't think soccer fans painting themselves is racist. They paint themselves all kinds of colors, so why should black paint get special treatment? All paint is equal. I´ve seen blacks paint their faces white...Aborigenes. But they weren't soccer fans, I don't think.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: blupblup
I dont see the issue?

Black people exist and Asian people exist.

They are people.

Why not try to emulate them?

What if I want to go as samual L Jackson to fancy dress party?

Am I not good enough to portray and black person?

Of course you don't.

Good for you.



If they're supporting Ghana and the "Black players" then why not wear a Ghana football shirt?
Why paint your face the colour of the player you're supporting? It makes no sense and quite rightly it caused a lot of anger and disbelief worldwide, as it should.

When the Villareal fan threw a Banana recently at Dani Alves, he picked it up, ate it and at the end thanked the fan for giving him energy food

www.goal.com...

www.bbc.co.uk...




Now trying to be the bigger person, rising above it and not showing that it affected him... does NOT mean it's ok.
There is far too much racism in football, monkey chants and so on... Kevin Prince Boateng lead off the Milan team after fans made monkey noises at him.

The black faces are just more of the same.... people need to understand that it is NOT acceptable.
RACE has no place in football.... whether you're "blacking up" or "pulling your eyes tight" or making monkey noises.

Just no...

This is not an isolated incident and the FIFA "Just say no to racism" is not working..

Or how about the Nazi sympathiser who invaded the pitch during the same Ghana vs Germany game?

www.sbs.com.au...

sports.ndtv.com...

Barely been reported, but Muntari tackled him.

a reply to: crazyewok

There's a lot of racist baggage attached to blackface, and maybe not something parts of the world are even aware of, and yeah it's Wiki, but it helps illustrate what I am trying to say:

t is often considered offensive, because it can imply stereotyped caricature of black people as in minstrel shows, and later vaudeville.

Stereotypes embodied in the stock characters of blackface minstrels not only played a significant role in cementing and proliferating racist images, attitudes, and perceptions worldwide, but also in popularizing black culture.[6] In some quarters, the caricatures that were the legacy of blackface persist to the present day and are a cause of ongoing controversy.

en.wikipedia.org...
and this

It’s quite difficult to continue a state of equanimity as you come across some of the pictures of costumes of blackface that have been floating around the internet. Apparently, the ugly state of our opinions of racial affairs keeps rearing its ugly head. Blackface was the makeup used by a non-black performer playing a black role. The role played is typically comedic or musical and usually is considered offensive.

www.blacknonbelieversofdetroit.org...

It really is similar to the Washington Redskins recently losing their trademark case:

“The Trademark Trial and Appeal Board agreed with our clients that the team’s name and trademarks disparage Native Americans,” Jesse Witten, the plaintiff’s attorney told Politico. “The Board ruled that the Trademark Office should never have registered these trademarks in the first place.”

~~~~~

“It is a great victory for Native Americans and for all Americans. We filed our petition eight years ago and it has been a tough battle ever since," said one of the petitioners, Amanda Blackhorse. "I hope this ruling brings us a step closer to that inevitable day when the name of the Washington football team will be changed.”

www.usnews.com...

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I can see why i Could be considered offensive.

But should blacks dressing up as whites be offensive?

Its such a complicated issue.

I would love to go as nick fury to a fancy dress party. But social convention would ban me.

As someone who was never around during the age of minstrels ect I do find it frustrating.

Thanks for your input.

I can assure you that it's not an "in" thing in Europe to black up one's face.

It isn't necessarily racist to do so, however, but people blacking up for the World Cup tend to be doing so for suspect reasons.

Those two pictured in the OP, for instance, are Germany fans watching their country play Ghana. I think you'd have to be very generous indeed to take what they're doing as anything other than being deliberately offensive.

a reply to: crazyewok

If the Wayan's brothers can go "white face" and make a movie called "White Chicks" and mock the entire white race then is that racist? Oh wait they did do that.

I dont think either are racist but if you are going to call one, like blackface racist, then the other should be racist as well. Right?

People need to stop getting so bent out of shape over every little thing. I swear it was not like this 10yrs ago. What in the hell has gotten into people?

It's racist by association, connotation and historical record. That doesn't mean that blacking up as Samuel L. for a party is a racist act, it does mean that many people might interpret it as such.

If there's blame for this state of affairs, it should be lain at the feet of those that made it a racist act by dint of violence, slavery, segregation and institutionalised prejudice.

A lot of white folk complain that 'it all happened years ago.' Most of it did, yeah. White folks subjugated most of Africa, Australia, the Americas and India until ~60 years back.

Is it that bad a penance that we don't black up?

In America, it's "racist"
for any white person to do black-face. It is, however, Okay for two black guys to do white face: