The mental health system is going to break me

a reply to: TheToastmanCometh

Unfortunately psychiatrists dont have much to offer their concerns are 1.are you a threat to yourself or others and 2.are you compliant with your medication,most of my coping mechanisms have come from experience not consultation but I do have a problem with GP'S 80 percent of youth mental health patients are prescribed risperidone an awful drug that I was on for ten years its the drug company pushing this drug.It takes 5 years to be a Doctor and 12 to be a Psychiatrist,I know who Id prefer to choose suitable drugs.

a reply to: KyoZero

Thank you, Kyozero. To add my own recent shock, on my first appointment with my new GP, the subject of my smoking came up. Long ago, while being treated for PTSD, my practitioners determined that my smoking "habit" was actually a self-medication practice (nicotine, iirc what they said, is both an anti-depressant and tranquilizer). I'm not a huge smoker. Most days I smoke maybe 5-10 cigarettes daily with 10 being the typical for a "bad day". With that background, flash forward to my recent GP appointment where my doctor asked me about my smoking. I smoke very little and only smoke more when I'm stressed, explaining it. She looked up at me from her notes (this was 5 minutes into the appointment) and point blank said "Stress? Do you want a pill for that?".

....

Do I want a pill for stress? I could've been a valium junkie and she would've handed the goods over to me in a heart beat on request. Do I want a pill for that? How about asking me of what else I do to manage my stress and gauge whether or not the stresses that I'm under are some form of mental illness and aren't actual normal and expected human responses? Golly, I'm just not working right now due to physical health issues, have a rotten to the core family of whom I suspect literally preferred the idea of my potentially dying (seriously), have a kid that is having some difficulties with school, and am broke as hell and there I am, sitting in that office, calm and joking with my GP showing no signs of anxiety or depression. Do I want a pill for that?

My response to her was pretty much this--"I've been on methotrexate and a whole slew of other drugs that are particularly toxic to one's liver so pardon me if I'm more concerned about making sure that my liver isn't getting more toxic junk stuffed in it than my smoking a maximum of 10 cigarettes daily. Light smoking isn't likely kill me but I can point you to the peer reviewed mortality lumps created by all those pills that doctors like you once put me on. So no, I don't want a pill for this. I'm fine."

Her response? She just said "good" like I somehow deserved a gold star.....

OY.

a reply to: KyoZero

I am a civilian patient, and my husband was in the army. It's very sad but true what you say about the VA handing out pills irresponsibly. My husband had a two-month supply of oxy after getting teeth pulled, and was a given ANOTHER month when he fractured his nose. He said no, he didn't really need much more than ibuprofen, and they literally put the pills in his hand. S & F for being honest, seems there is a lot of pressure in your profession right now to keep mum.

Kyo,you should be awarded for your honesty. Not many in your position would speak out. I don't believe there is a mental health "system" anywhere that truly gives a care about the patients. Its an industry like any other,built on repeat customers. Get them hooked on a product,or a half dozen so they are lifelong dependant until they die. But no worries,every generation next had ten times more anxiety and mental issues than the previous one. Its all dollars and no common sense. In my personal experience,I have a family member severely over medicated for a minor issue,and my ex who is severely undermedicated for an extreme issue. Cause,yeah...everyone who is just depressed believes they are Jesus reincarnated. But hey,pop enough pills into them,and who cares if they work or not? I myself have PTSD,and anxiety...but I don't take medication. Never will as long as I can still function. It's a system I don't want to become part of,or trapped in. Extreme kudos to you Kyo...it takes a strong person to overcome their own issues,and try to help others. Don't let it break you.

a reply to: AccessDenied

AD I remember you from when I started and I am sorry to hear about your dealings with the 'system'

in fact from now on I think it's time we put quotes around it. The fact is...and I admit here and now I used to deny it...that medications change brain chemistry. I make this challenge in jest I promise

go on Zyprexa for three months...then wean off of it...it's terrible because your body becomes dependent. Like I said some people really truly need to be on meds, possibly forever. I sadly might be one of them and that's ok. If anything, I find it's made me more capable of feeling what my clients feel. I just think it's so easy...too easy to just hand out a med and call it a day

If anyone wants (and mods please remove if illegal) watch Vitality - documentary...it's amazing.

The overwhelming message is simple. Well-being IS NOT a lack of disease. Well-being IS NOT fixing a problem. Well-being is feeling healthy, vibrant and full of life...sadly out system is built so that we 'fix' problems

you all want a fun fact for the night?

Most medical scientists don't really know how most anti-psychotics even do what they do

but no problem at all sticking me on one

be healthy my friends...and I apologize for not coming to these realizations earlier...I was a bit lost

Thank you for this thread, KZ. I have come to realize the same things about the mental health system. I want to share my story.

My diagnosis has just recently been changed from major depression to bipolar type 2. This is at the local mental health clinic, since I haven't worked since 2010 and have no insurance. I also get the 10 minute diagnosis and prescribed meds, which are now generic Celexa and Abilify. I was on 60mg of Celexa, until the warning came out, so down to 40mg now. I take 1mg (yes, that's ONE mg) of Abilify. Makes me kind of hyper and jumpy, but if I go up to 2mg, get tired and want to sleep all the time again. I'd rather be a little hyper, so I can get some stuff done. than tired.

Anyway, had to move back in with my parents at age 38 when Prozac quit working and had to quit a fairly new job. I'm now 45, and because I live with my parents, don't qualify for any kind of government help. My parents are both retired now, and on a fixed income. I feel immensely guilty for them having to support me, and pretty much ruining their retirement. I want to work again, but with my mind unsettled I can't think straight enough to make good decisions anymore. Most of the time have trouble holding conversations because I can't think of the right word, so I just stay quiet and say little. Also, I have an older sister who is very successful, and calls me a mooch for living with mom and dad. She just doesn't understand the mental illness thing.

After reading your post KZ, especially about feeling invincible and getting into debt on spending sprees, I realize that describes my late teen's and early twenties to a t. Subsequent bad relationships and the fact I let my parents talk me into how to live my life exasperated the condition.

To sum up my apologetically long post, I completely agree with you about big pharma pushing pills, and the slow death of our mental health system. I kinda gave up on life until recently, and I want to start living again. But with the way things are, I just don't know how.

After destroying two cars, a house and nearly killing myself, I recall my psychiatrists words, whispered to me in a military treatment facility, "PTSD is a sensitive issue."

I stopped all my drugs, lost ALL trust in the medical system and haven't found the courage to claim VA disability for fear that I will LOSE MY S***!

Been retired from the military for many years now...still suffering...without benefits...

a reply to: jrflipjr

I am very sorry for your predicament, jrflipjr. I've never been in the military so don't know about VA stuff, but I do hope you can find some help. Aren't there support groups for veterans with PTSD? Maybe you can find some help there.

Please don't give up. Alot of people here on ATS are on your side, including myself. I'm not that religious, but I believe in the power of prayer, and I'll be praying for you.

I have my own problems, and gave up a long time ago. But I'm trying it again, and hoping somehow I can find help, too.

The slow death is occurring with all service sectors and fields, it isn't restricted to mental health fields.

I wanted to work toward being a Physicians assistant at one time, but the unfairness and corruption of the medical industry / system turned me so "off" I went back to the things I did before.

It's a real bummer wanting to help people but not being allowed to help people because of the bureaucracy and the politics of it all.

It appears to be a systemic problem where the participants wish to pursue profit at all costs and reject any liability at all for any damage done to anyone or anything in any way.

What are those participants I mentioned earlier referred to as?, y'all know....

a reply to: enlighten_me

Thanks.

I don't want to derail the main conversation - just wanted to offer an example to support the OP's claim. Interestingly enough, when I was going through my little episode, my wife (a nurse) had an opportunity to interview my mental health chief (for scholastic purposes). The interview disclosed exactly what I knew at the time regarding the military approach to mental health - provide personnel the means to function normally, so they can continue to carry out their duties. That's a FAR cry from solving the issue. It's no wonder there are so many vets and active duty personnel committing suicide or violent acts.

Mental health is the new buzzword in the country and it will continue to gain a lot of attention. Unfortunately, if the government gets involved in any capacity, I guarantee there will be widespread policies, laws and rules to affect the mental health community. I don't see it getting better for those who suffer. As the OP suggests, the reliance on medication will remain the be-all-end-all of mental health issues because it's easier, cheaper and generally effective (I speculate there are many patients who really just need to get a grip on life). Unfortunately, for those of us who suffer from real issues, we'll just get clumped together with the rest of the crowd.

Don't be surprised if you see more "mental health related" violence getting more attention in the future, because according to the press, the government and mental health professionals, everyone has a friggin problem!

Alas...

It sounds to me like the main problem is too many clients who believe they're ill, and in one way are milking the system, against true clients who really do need help, and don't get it.

From what I can tell, it's not merely that you're only allotted 7-15 minutes per client, rather that there's really no other way with the current numbers. Are there tens of thousands of mental health professionals who are unemployed or something?

I think if we dig deep enough, we see cultural changes leading to social changes. People are more promiscuous now than in the past. We used to shame people for things that are now a norm. Due to many reasons, the family unit is pretty well destroyed in the US. I think this alone is a big chunk of why there's so many subclinical cases seeking help that really just need to move on.

The marketing and advertising companies don't help, they encourage those with minor issues to see it as a disease/disorder/syndrome of some sort. Really it's just people who don't have a perfect life, yet feel entitled to one.

As for the parents who can no longer parent. I thin that's multi-generational. Think of the parents now, who dealt with two parents working to put food on the table. Their parents knew what it was like to have a functional family and decent childhood two generations ago, but their kids only heard stories. So when it comes time for them to parent, in the face of not being properly parented, due ultimately to an inability from the ideal to work, work, work both sexes for an increased tax base... well, you get a dysfunctional family, and people a little mucked up.

I've always been against meds, because overall I see them as more a harm than good to society, and tend to think there's better alternatives that we just don't put much focus on. I'm hoping that in the near future fields like nutrigenomics will replace pharmacology as a superior treatment option. As for now, the most extreme seem to need meds... so be it.

Wrapping this up, I think it's obvious that our culture is sick, and that leads to increased healthcare costs. Look at other western countries that still have an intact family unit. Their rates of being on pharmaceuticals isn't so great. Look to the centenarians, and you'll see a very healthy community, starting with the family unit. You'll see people being physically active into very old age, eating healthy, and keeping strong bonds with those around them. Is it really that hard to be well? We're over-complicating the simple.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I'm not going to argue that subclinical cases do exist...they do. I see them plenty. But just as you pointed that out, there are also tons of clinical and super clinical cases that either get brushed under the rug of slapped with Zyprexa and sent home. But my idea of 7 minutes being a problem still stands strong.

The way I see it, we have three cases of clients in the mental health arena.

1. The super-clinical patients - people who are so severely mentally ill that they can hardly function. The seven minutes alloted to them is not enough. More attention needs to be paid to these cases (and yes I am well aware they are not the majority)...but still...7 minutes and maybe a hospitalization and yet nothing has changed.

2. The clinical clients - (this is where I land) here you have the majority. Again the seven minutes isn't enough but this time for a different reason. And here I will agree with you a bit. If they took time and talked about vitality and holistic well-being, then perhaps a lot of money, insurance woes and problems could be solved less by pharmacological methods and more by holistic healing methods. I'm not saying to put a severe major depressive client on St. Johns Wort and call it a day. No not at all...but it also does no good to take a very brief glimpse and slap them on the drug that the representative suggested as he wined and dined the psychiatrist of physician.

3. The sub-clinical case - Yes they do exist. And while I will somewhat agree that society has created this culture, I assert that they still need our help and the 7 minutes is not going to solve the problem. In this case, instead of slapping them with a prescription, oppurtunities need to be opened for them and encouraged. Many of these cases could be well-cared for with some brief or medium length therapy. But that's not what we do. Instead we give them Prozac, which chemically changes them and NOW they become clinical because taking them off a med is very hard to do.

Again I return to my tongue-in-cheek, yet all-too-serious challenge. Take a person who is subclinical or otherwise healthy and place them on Zyprexa for a month or two. Then have them taken off the pill...even when weaned off it often results in a mental, social and physical disaster. The first time I came off Zyprexa I was plagued with migraines, headaches, severe anxiety, and a sharp increase in my manic phases both in quantity and severeity.

I know I harp on the '7 minutes' a lot and yes part of the problem is that there are increasing numbers, but I can't pretend it's solely or mostly a social and cultural issue. A large chunk of it IS a business and greed issue. Now you can argue that busienss and greed are social and cultural and I will cede that but big pharma is a major racket. Look at the prices for some of these meds. They are shocking and near impossible. Look at the constant (and I do mean constant) sales rep visits and free dinners and the oh-so-forgotten mention of side effects.

I don't think we need to 'shame' sub-clinical clients. We need to help them

I am slightly off track but it is my thread so

Pretending for a moment that the illness is one of society. What then? Do we 'shame' them or do we look into why the problem exists? We have to look at well-being. Yes it is SUPER annoying to me when my frequent flyers shows up...again. But I always consider that something HAS to be happening. I know science will tell you correlation does not equal causation and I agree. But at some point, we have to seek causation. I posit that while society is a bit of a problem, consider the source. Big pharma IS a major reason why people think they are sick.

You mentioned that society has brought out many illnesses that would otherwise not have existed. Again I agree. But where does it start? It starts with funding by Glaxo and the like. They put out information telling you that you are ill. That doesn’t mean we should just send them back to prior thinking and living modes. If society causes illness, society can cure illness. And seven minutes per person isn’t enough regardless of what the problem is. We need holistic and considerate healing and we need it now…period

But we don’t. Because big pharma and disenfranchised doctors would rather put someone on a pill then tackle a problem. For those who are uninitiated (not saying ignorant or stupid…) let me give you a little hint

Sending a depressed client to me to do therapy is less expensive, less profitable and more of a ‘burden’ to the corrupt mental health system than Prozac. Prozac costs money and doesn’t HEAL anything. I and those like me have a chance to heal or at least make living so much more tolerable for an abuse victim or a depressed client or someone suffering anxiety. But that’s not what we desire. You are correct that society prefers a quick fix but there are two unavoidable facts here

1. For the majority of people who aren’t severely mentally ill, a pill IS NOT a fix. It’s a distraction

2. Society may have bred this desire for a quick fix, but greed, business and big pharma started it

We have to end it…and I have answers I believe will work but I am not politically savvy or smart enough to do it alone. I wouldn’t know where to begin. Big pharma has deep pockets and a host of professionals and politicians that allow them to keep pushing pills…and we just keep taking them


I don't think you and I disagree here that society is sick...I just feel that greed, corruption and business caused the illenss...

progress is not a bad thing. Whether you are conservative, liberal, socialist, fascist...doesn't matter to me...progress can be made and right now, greed and big pharma are anti progress and pro-greed. They have no problem pressuring the medical community into placing a pill in your stomach of an injection in your arm even if you don't truly need it

Will I need to stay on depakote forever? Possibly...I am ill without it...but you can bet your next paycheck that I am doing all I can to become healthy without having to rely on a stabilizer all my life...

and I'm going to tell you a little secret...

it works

a reply to: KyoZero

I have to ask your opinion on the addiction is a disease model. Do you concur? I know it's drilled into healthcare professions for the last 20-30 years, but since you can see the greed in the industry, do you not think the science has been fudged a bit to conclude without the proper evidence, in order to line the pocketbooks of insurance companies, and treatment centers?

I tend to think that AA/NA and the addiction as a disease model is an overall harm to people, and the science is very lacking. Pointing to altered brain scans after years of use, is not an indication of disease, rather adaptation to exogenous substances. Would you not see altered brain scans after taking prescription medicine for mental illness? Would you say the medicine caused the "disease" and it is a life-long affliction? Why are we not considering pre-existing illness, or in fact healthy brains, both before, and far after use? Are we not considering normal variation within brain function? Is there a true norm?

What are your thoughts?

originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: KyoZero

I have to ask your opinion on the addiction is a disease model. Do you concur? I know it's drilled into healthcare professions for the last 20-30 years, but since you can see the greed in the industry, do you not think the science has been fudged a bit to conclude without the proper evidence, in order to line the pocketbooks of insurance companies, and treatment centers?

I tend to think that AA/NA and the addiction as a disease model is an overall harm to people, and the science is very lacking. Pointing to altered brain scans after years of use, is not an indication of disease, rather adaptation to exogenous substances. Would you not see altered brain scans after taking prescription medicine for mental illness? Would you say the medicine caused the "disease" and it is a life-long affliction? Why are we not considering pre-existing illness, or in fact healthy brains, both before, and far after use? Are we not considering normal variation within brain function? Is there a true norm?

What are your thoughts?

To me addiction is an axtremely personal concern. Yes, I, Kyo Zero am an addict. I was addicted to Vicodin and Valium for two years to the point that I was taking 10 pills at a time, chasing it with alcohol, then adding Flexiril...is it a disease model? Well I can't truly conclude that for others.

However, for a more satisfying answer, no it was not a disease for me. I could have easily told my doctor, no more Vicodin. I beleive often times that addiction is secondary to personality or psychoalogical conflict.

I am having this outbreak of the honesties...(I am tradmarking that word by the way so back off)

In my honesty I am going to be super blunt. I came to ATS because I had some personal knowledge on something and wanted to consider the views of others. I have since spent many years here being a skeptic...which is healthy in moderate doses.

If you'd have asked me this same question (about fudging science to fit desired result) a year ago I would have torched and said that medical science was almighty and ifalliable...but yes...to get on topic...

yes I believe medical science expands truth or lies. Again, I have been wooed by drug reps to fancy...(I mean REALLY fancy) dinners. I am a tubby and I love to eat...but one day it occured to me that at no time did the reps talk about the truth of side effects and changes in chemistry. Instead it was all about the benefits of so-and-so pill...

so it was arrogant for me to think that this disingenuous behavior couldn't possibly exist outside of a drug rep.

So yeah I agree with your assessment. Insurance and drug makers have a lot to say when it comes to results. It isn't unknown for a drug company to completely disregard a study when it did not come to the conclusion they desired to push their pill...

I was taught in grad school that the first thing you should ever do when considering a study is to look at what the title and abstract is, then skip immediately to the funding authority...

It's not to say that Glaxo is incapable of putting out honesty but think of the business and bottom line...how trustworthy is a study when Pfizer funds it and it comes out that the result is Lyrica cures all! I look at drug results in the same light that I look at as-seen-on-TV commercials...I know you've seen them before

They create a problem that doesn't really exist and BAM you now have a solution...you know the part...the screen turns black and white and we are subjected to a painful and awkward scene of some poor silly woman who can't cut a straight line with scissors or can't get a little burnt chocolate out of a pan...then we see test results that you can easily observe as disingenuous

And this is what I am getting to...I believe that big pharma and the so called system creates problems...yes sometimes they are legitimate and a drug is the only assitance that truly helps...but so much more often I see people who could benefit from counesling or benefit management...but instead, the system was created by and for money and the bottom line.

"This drug will cure your depression!"

but it won't...instead it will help you ease back into life comfortably...but without holistic help, you've usually cured nothing and just put yourself on a waiting list

You get a broken bone...you walk into an ER and the doctor sets it...you get a short dose of pain pills and before you know it, you're active again

Western doctors IMO have the monopoly on trauma...I believe medicine is SUPERB in treating trauma...but beyond that, the medical and drug system have created a world where nothing gets fixed. All that occurs is money transfer and the CEO of Pfizer has a huge house and toys all the while, he probably would take his own pills

So to get to your secobd paragraph...my personal opinion is that addiction is 'sometimes' a disease...but I like to think of it like this...what started it? If it is a disease, what kicked it off?

I could have a genetic propensity for skin cancer, but I can also take steps to assure I don't start the melanoma process. Likewise, it's been said I have to propensity for addiction...and look...I am an addict. Clean yes, but still an addict. I believe a level of personal responsibility is needed. And this is where I will shake your hand and say you are right on

Personal responsibility has dissapeared...I just happen to think it was largely a case of the system taking advantage of people and dissolving personal responsibility by telling everyne that they were sick

Some days I wonder if I stopped Depakote and adopted a 100% clean lifestyle, would I no longer be suffering bipolar? No clue...but that's why I am fighting this battle in my own body and mind. Yes I take the pill and yes it hast VASTLY improved my functioning...but am I curing anything?

I mean I don't know...maybe I can never be 'cured' but then that is where I think the system failed us by ultimately achieveing their ow dastardly goal...they made us think we were broken

Look, if tomorrow, Joe goes out, drinks and kills a carload with a family in it and himself, he is not a victim...he isn't broken...he made poor choices

But in the same light, I think it is sickening that the system makes me think I am broken because I suffer mania and depression...where could that come from? Part society yes but I believe the impetus is driven by a group of large corporate types who need to sell their pill. So they make you think you are broken...and the real crux of it all is that they don't even FIX you!

They want you to stay "broken" because that pill numbs you up and you or your provider gets to pay and pay and pay

the thing is though, a good portion of these clients could benefit from real counseling. I've seen it myself. I've seen a year of counseling take a rape victim from coering in her house to a confident, beautiful woman (and I mean in spirit..not body) who has a boyfriend and enjoys sex again.

The only other alternative as far as the system was concerned was to give her Ativan for the rest of her life and dramatically increase her chances of addiction

I agre by the way that while brains change due to addiction of to say Heroin or Cocaine, it is likely an adaptation in the same way that I bet if I took lithium for a decade I bet my brain would change too...and that just brings me always back to my talking point

I believe that we need to spend time working with clients...not putting them on lithium and seeing them for another 7 minutes in two months...

My opinion is everyone has mental problems and physical problems, but not everyone shows it because of circumstances in their life leading to a more positive outcome and thus dampening the problems they have. It's like we're all broken, but sometimes the cracked bottle is placed in such a way that the wind and waves and elements do not crack it open.

We really do not know exactly how to create these positive outcomes, and so cracked bottles will continue to smash and crack open.

I think pills are just the most affective and convenient answer for now.

I have 2 family members on drugs/meds. Honestly, my own judgment is their problems are both preexisting and also tied to their choices in life. They didn't do well in school, never found good work or didn't work at all. The real question is how much of their condition was preexisting or how much is the result of choices and environment imprinting on their mind the signs of disorder. For example, if I lock someone up in a room for a couple years, they'll probably go crazy. If you examine their brain, it won't look normal. Especially if I do it when they're young and it has serious effects on their development. But sometimes in life things aren't this obvious and yet they still have negative effects which are mistaken for other things.

Of course, I'm naturally going to be more prejudiced about family members and not be as tolerant and understanding.

I wish could turn back the clock 30 years and try different things. Seriously, my two close relations are so fubbered up they got disorders on every body part. You can't fix that. You can only cope and struggle.

I probably have my own long list of problems. I'm just more stubborn than they're. They sought out help at the first sign of problem. They wanted it. Me, I just am a hell of a lot more stubborn. I just for someone reason don't immediately think something is genetic or impossible to deal with outside of meds. Maybe it's my own pride. I'm not sure. I just remember when I did ok in life and when I didn't and I relate things to them. I note what I was doing when I felt good and what I was doing when I felt rotten. 9 times out of 10 not getting out of the house and/or not challening myself led to negative outcomes. Same deal happens when you don't do your homework and feel bad about it. If you stop doing your homework for long enough, you won't evne try and you'll lose every last drop of confidence you ever had. When that happens, you become completely dependent on others.

So what causes people to be locked up inside their house and/or stuck in a state where they do not challenge themselves? Obviously, genetic disorders and/or developmental disorders can be the culprit. In many cases they can't be fixed, they can only be medicated. There're probably a slew of people on medications for both physical and mental disorders. But do we focus sometimes too much on hte medications and not on what causes these problems in the first place? Like the genetics? The developmental problems? How to pay for and educate parents and communties to work together to ensure children are borught up in the more ideal circumstances for their physical and mental development? And maybe if we do enough of it, it'll pay for itself by lowering doctor visits in the ensuing future time.

Is there anything else that can cause people to atrophy that isn't a genetic or developmental disorder? Can habit or laziness alone cause it? Can it happen when a person is an adult? For example, if I was forced to do my daily activities in a certain way, could this imprint on my brain the signs of OCD given enough time? Is the brain that flexible?

Well... I can think of one potential example: PTSD. Of course, people who go into war and get PTSD probably had preexisting vulnerabilities. Still, PTSD doesn't happen without something else being involved: like war. I remember reading about a dog that had PTSD and about the signs it showed. I thought to msyelf "Geez, I wonder if some of my social anxiety stems from when I was teased when I was younger? Do I have PTSD?" It sure seemed like, but of course it's easy to misread or misunderstand symptoms assigned to disorders when you're not a professional. Anyway, I literally hid inside myself because of the fears I had of being noticed when I was growing up. (Thinking back on it, I realize that by hiding inside I made myself a bigger target) Teasing really got to me. I don't blame any of them, but I got to admit when I read the things about PTSD it seemed a lot like what I hav felt in the past. The key difference apparently is the PTSD can be worked around through therapy. If what I have is similar, can I too work around it? Well, I've worked in the past. I know I can be halfway comfortable around people. It's just that I'm not a social butterfly and I examine things too much sometimes.

Maybe some thigns can't be worked around because the very thing that causes your disorder to emerge from sleep is unavoidable. And yet it's this conclusion I think the vast majority want. People want an answer that's simple. Pop a pill and forget about it. The kind answer that requires you to figure out how to work around it is more complicated. And still this is easy to understand because life is already very straining. You add another weight and many people will break. They must reach for the pill.

a reply to: KyoZero

You are exactly right in identifying the common experiences and problems with healthcare... the solution? Make all healthcare a non-profit, single payer priority... like most other "civilized" countries.

When profit motive is involved, decent healthcare goes to the highest bidder... no way to do it unless you are fine with only the very rich getting decent care. Pretty simple.

To those that grouch that there will be long lines and crappy health care... well, first off, not necessarily and secondly, as it stands, that is better than rushed, crappy care as it is now... or no care at all ... which is too common these days.

This mental health issue started in the 80's with the public institutions getting unfunded and the rise of an aggressive and corrupt pharmaceutical industry. There is big money in this substandard treatment and thus, it is unlikely to be fixed.

a reply to: KyoZero

Kyo if I could applaud, star and flag you 100 times I would!!!

I myself am bi polar and have been very open on here and in my personal life. Only difference is I take nothing and have a HARD time dealing with it. I do a good job I've been told but those people really have no idea how I feel INSIDE. I feel like I'm going to break at any moment. If it wasn't for my son I'd probably have had a breakdown by now.

My state is one of the worst when it comes to mental health and well finding help has been a long battle. I was committed about 12 yrs ago and they did nothing. I stayed a week in the hospital under psych watch and it took 5 days for the doctor to see me. He barely said two words and handed me a script for xanax. I could not take it. I had a hard time functioning. It literally knocked me out in about 10mins once it hit my system. Years later I found a place locally and went there for help and WHAT a JOKE! I remember sitting there in the hall, not an office or private place, talking to this guy who wasn't even listening to me. He was looking around and playing with his clip board. I got so angry and said or yelled "ARE YOU LISTENING TO ME" I was so upset. He didn't care and yet I was sent there for help? The place is a joke. It's a mental health/rehab center. An ex of mine went there three times for pain pill addiction and got MORE drugs inside than outside. They dont' care there. So once again I was on my own to deal with my problems.

In about 2007 I joined a study for Seroquel. I remember hearing the ad on the radio and thinking I can finally get help! I called and went for their interview. I was almost not accepted BUT the one female doctor told the male doctor who did my interview that she wasn't going to turn me away. The male didn't want to take me for it. I almost had a breakdown right there but when I heard the female say no she was taking me I cried. I took Seroquel for IDK about 6mths or so. I can't really remember. I was on 800mg a day. It was hard to function on it. It affected my entire motor skills and body in the worst way. I gained 50lbs!! FIFTY!! I felt good BUT I wasn't myself. I did things while on it that i have never told a soul and am ashamed of. I didn't like what it did to me. I liked how the bi polar aspect was gone. No rage, no anger, no depression, that was all gone but this other person was there instead and I didn't like it. I stopped taking it and again was back searching for help. I was on lithium for a while but it made me sick and I had to stop it.

Well 7yrs later and I still have no help. I was in September seeing a doctor but all she did was throw pills at me and discuss meds for an hour. I wanted to TALK and discuss my problems not have pills thrown at me. It drove me nuts and cost me $30 twice a week! She tried to put me on Latuda which is a new drug and I said no way. I didn't want to be a guinea pig again esp now that I have a child. I have had some manic episodes that are not pretty lately and it is REALLY hard to deal with. My mom will take my son when it happens. I feel like a horrible person and honestly I'm in tears typing this because I am just so OVER being turned away. I WANT help and I can't find it. I have called the mental health places here and never received one call back. If I could check myself in somewhere I would but locally there isn't anything and our insurance doesn't cover the long term stays and well we don't have about $20k to send me somewhere for a month to get treatment.

I do the best I can. I know the triggers and when I feel it coming on I stop and just breathe. I repress so much emotion that I cry for no reason. I mean the smallest thing could make me cry and that is not normal. Just last night I called the pharmacy about two of my meds and the interaction notice and when they explained it to me I bawled when I got off the phone. It felt good like something was lifted off my chest but it didn't help the depression and everything else. So many people think I"m fine but like you I hide it VERY well. Hell I've had 15 yrs of practice. Those close to me know and can see it but most people can't tell.

The system is BROKEN and nobody cares. Well there are those like you and I who do care but the majority don't and it is so sad. I feel like i have to do something drastic to get help or attention and that is pretty messed up.

There needs to be something done for people with mental health instead of tossing them aside and shoving pills down their throat. Sure they help for some but for others they don't. I want a therapist as well and it is pretty sad when my GP can't recommend a good therapist around here. How screwed up is that!?! I have been calling to find a therapist but for some reason a lot of them dont' take insurance, only self pay. WTF! I don't have $100 a visit twice a week! I have insurance, isn't that what it is for?! Ugh this system makes me so mad.

I'll say one more thing and I'll shut up. Sorry for going on about my problems but this is a subject very close to me for personal reasons. The one thing that has worked for me is illegal and I can't discuss due to T&C. It angers me that this works and because some suit deems it a drug and illegal I can't get help. It has been the ONLY thing that helped and let me be ME!

Thank you so much for this thread. It is nice to see someone like you who truly cares in the system and wants to do good for others. I wish you all the best. Kyo. ((hugs))

a reply to: mblahnikluver

not to get too whiny but I remember our little group when I first joined back when mutter was a thing. What great times we all had in that little side chat

anyway...I die a little inside when I hear stories like yours. Not because you and I get along but because it happens to people. Good people, not so good people, hell even bad people don't deserve this treatment. But the part that really kills me is how ridiculously common your story is. I see it every day in my emergency rooms...tomorrow morning I start work at 7:00 am and I am going to see it again.

It is sickening on so many levels

1. People have to SERIOUSLY decompensate to be really looked at (usually by psychiatric admission) which is absolutely no treat

2. Even when they are admitted, it's like a prison and my clients are treated as diseases, not people

3. Then IF you are lucky enough to find the psychiatrist who will listen for more than 2 minutes, it's time to pop out the anti-psychotics that these doctors don't even know how they work but have no problem telling you to take them dutifully

4. When you take them dutifully, you gain tons of weight, get sick, lose immunity, hell sometimes become MORE suicidal

5. When that happens, they either ignore it, change doses, or put you on yet another pill

And this list could go on for days as you well know.

I personally have never been admitted but have worked the floors a lot

Why can we talk...why can't we LISTEN

In the three years I've done this and 7 years I've studied it I have learned some things. No I am not a seasoned, grizzled veteran...thank goddess because I don't want to lose my innocence

but I tell you now on my own personal research that people want to tell you their story. And when they DO tell you their story you HAVE to listen. This is where the magic happens friends of ATS and the good news is you don't have to be licensed like I am to be a damn good therapist. The only difference between you guys and myself is that I have a crap load of student debt and I get paid to do what I do

A real counselor...one that hasn't died inside is a pair of ears first and foremost. Yeah I am trained to dole out therapeutic techniques but let me break the secret for you all...Pay 50 dollars a month, get online and you can learn pretty much everything I have learned in 4 years of undergrad and two years of grad

Look up PMR, belly breathing go ahead and save your money!

But back to the magic

I cannot describe the utter relief I see in clients when they have a cathartic moment. When they tell their story to someone who listens you can physically and emotionally see the weight lifted off them

did it cure them? Probably not...but imagine what i can do with a year of listening and a smidgen of professional advice...I've seen it ATS

and let break another obvious piece of news to you...

I am not special at all...I really truly mean it when I say being a therapist is easy...open ears, shut mouth and when they are ready, ask some questions to guide them to their answers

A real therapist helps people find their way...they don't give them a biased path

Catharsis...healthy eating...natural medicine and yes sometimes psychotropics for those who just cannot cope...these are the tools and these tools all begin and end with listening

and 7 minutes is not enough

Money is the source of a lot of problems. There are people making policy decisions that are not trained in psychology one bit and have no empathy with the people and clients they are supposed to be serving.

I think that as things become more incorporated, there is going to be less and less empathy between the policy managers and the hands-on folks and even the clients - this lack of empathy will result in a broken system.

I used to be very passionate about what is going on in our mental health system. I was a psychiatric nurse at a locked facility. I saw how broken the system was, but at that time I was young and thought I could change the world. A few years after I started working there, the budget was cut and the facility had to shut down, putting about 30 people who were unable to take care of themselves out on the street. Most ended up in jail. These were the ones we could place elsewhere due to lack of insurance and had no family to care for them.

Fast forward 15 years or so, I am having problems myself. On top of grieving the loss of my children, I have been diagnosed with PTSD. It is a challenge getting the help I need. I cycle between panic attacks and overwhelming grief. When I fist started seeking help they kept trying to put me on SSRI's. I can't do those they make my head feel like I have bombs going off inside of it. It is terrifying. So because of that, I was very resistant to any medication. I was given ativan for anxiety, but that made me too loopy to take care of important things. Finally one Dr. after fighting her on everything prescribed Hydroxizine for anxiety and Prazosin for nightmares and figured out it was PTSD, not depression that everyone else kept trying to label it as. I gave in to those two despite hating pharmaceuticals, and I am glad I did. Those work for some of what I am dealing with.

What I can't get help for is complicated grief. Self diagnosed via the internet, but everyone else seems clueless. Many days I go through all the cycles of grief except acceptance in one day, only to repeat it the next. Over the last few month I feel like my pain over my kids is getting worse instead of better. I thing that is due to feeling guilty, like I would be a bad mother if I let them go so I hang on the pain. I know I need help with that, but all anyone wants to do is is prescribe more pills. Once a week therapy telling me to get out and do stuff, doesn't cut it.