originally posted by: pl3bscheese
a reply to: KyoZero
I have to ask your opinion on the addiction is a disease model. Do you concur? I know it's drilled into healthcare professions for the last 20-30
years, but since you can see the greed in the industry, do you not think the science has been fudged a bit to conclude without the proper evidence, in
order to line the pocketbooks of insurance companies, and treatment centers?
I tend to think that AA/NA and the addiction as a disease model is an overall harm to people, and the science is very lacking. Pointing to altered
brain scans after years of use, is not an indication of disease, rather adaptation to exogenous substances. Would you not see altered brain scans
after taking prescription medicine for mental illness? Would you say the medicine caused the "disease" and it is a life-long affliction? Why are we
not considering pre-existing illness, or in fact healthy brains, both before, and far after use? Are we not considering normal variation within brain
function? Is there a true norm?
What are your thoughts?
To me addiction is an axtremely personal concern. Yes, I, Kyo Zero am an addict. I was addicted to Vicodin and Valium for two years to the point that
I was taking 10 pills at a time, chasing it with alcohol, then adding Flexiril...is it a disease model? Well I can't truly conclude that for others.
However, for a more satisfying answer, no it was not a disease for me. I could have easily told my doctor, no more Vicodin. I beleive often times that
addiction is secondary to personality or psychoalogical conflict.
I am having this outbreak of the honesties...(I am tradmarking that word by the way so back off)
In my honesty I am going to be super blunt. I came to ATS because I had some personal knowledge on something and wanted to consider the views of
others. I have since spent many years here being a skeptic...which is healthy in moderate doses.
If you'd have asked me this same question (about fudging science to fit desired result) a year ago I would have torched and said that medical science
was almighty and ifalliable...but yes...to get on topic...
yes I believe medical science expands truth or lies. Again, I have been wooed by drug reps to fancy...(I mean REALLY fancy) dinners. I am a tubby and
I love to eat...but one day it occured to me that at no time did the reps talk about the truth of side effects and changes in chemistry. Instead it
was all about the benefits of so-and-so pill...
so it was arrogant for me to think that this disingenuous behavior couldn't possibly exist outside of a drug rep.
So yeah I agree with your assessment. Insurance and drug makers have a lot to say when it comes to results. It isn't unknown for a drug company to
completely disregard a study when it did not come to the conclusion they desired to push their pill...
I was taught in grad school that the first thing you should ever do when considering a study is to look at what the title and abstract is, then skip
immediately to the funding authority...
It's not to say that Glaxo is incapable of putting out honesty but think of the business and bottom line...how trustworthy is a study when Pfizer
funds it and it comes out that the result is Lyrica cures all! I look at drug results in the same light that I look at as-seen-on-TV commercials...I
know you've seen them before
They create a problem that doesn't really exist and BAM you now have a solution...you know the part...the screen turns black and white and we are
subjected to a painful and awkward scene of some poor silly woman who can't cut a straight line with scissors or can't get a little burnt chocolate
out of a pan...then we see test results that you can easily observe as disingenuous
And this is what I am getting to...I believe that big pharma and the so called system creates problems...yes sometimes they are legitimate and a drug
is the only assitance that truly helps...but so much more often I see people who could benefit from counesling or benefit management...but instead,
the system was created by and for money and the bottom line.
"This drug will cure your depression!"
but it won't...instead it will help you ease back into life comfortably...but without holistic help, you've usually cured nothing and just put
yourself on a waiting list
You get a broken bone...you walk into an ER and the doctor sets it...you get a short dose of pain pills and before you know it, you're active
Western doctors IMO have the monopoly on trauma...I believe medicine is SUPERB in treating trauma...but beyond that, the medical and drug system have
created a world where nothing gets fixed. All that occurs is money transfer and the CEO of Pfizer has a huge house and toys all the while, he probably
would take his own pills
So to get to your secobd paragraph...my personal opinion is that addiction is 'sometimes' a disease...but I like to think of it like this...what
started it? If it is a disease, what kicked it off?
I could have a genetic propensity for skin cancer, but I can also take steps to assure I don't start the melanoma process. Likewise, it's been said
I have to propensity for addiction...and look...I am an addict. Clean yes, but still an addict. I believe a level of personal responsibility is
needed. And this is where I will shake your hand and say you are right on
Personal responsibility has dissapeared...I just happen to think it was largely a case of the system taking advantage of people and dissolving
personal responsibility by telling everyne that they were sick
Some days I wonder if I stopped Depakote and adopted a 100% clean lifestyle, would I no longer be suffering bipolar? No clue...but that's why I am
fighting this battle in my own body and mind. Yes I take the pill and yes it hast VASTLY improved my functioning...but am I curing anything?
I mean I don't know...maybe I can never be 'cured' but then that is where I think the system failed us by ultimately achieveing their ow dastardly
goal...they made us think we were broken
Look, if tomorrow, Joe goes out, drinks and kills a carload with a family in it and himself, he is not a victim...he isn't broken...he made poor
But in the same light, I think it is sickening that the system makes me think I am broken because I suffer mania and depression...where could that
come from? Part society yes but I believe the impetus is driven by a group of large corporate types who need to sell their pill. So they make you
think you are broken...and the real crux of it all is that they don't even FIX you!
They want you to stay "broken" because that pill numbs you up and you or your provider gets to pay and pay and pay
the thing is though, a good portion of these clients could benefit from real counseling. I've seen it myself. I've seen a year of counseling take a
rape victim from coering in her house to a confident, beautiful woman (and I mean in spirit..not body) who has a boyfriend and enjoys sex again.
The only other alternative as far as the system was concerned was to give her Ativan for the rest of her life and dramatically increase her chances of
I agre by the way that while brains change due to addiction of to say Heroin or Cocaine, it is likely an adaptation in the same way that I bet if I
took lithium for a decade I bet my brain would change too...and that just brings me always back to my talking point
I believe that we need to spend time working with clients...not putting them on lithium and seeing them for another 7 minutes in two months...