U.S. Supreme Court removes buffer zones from abortion clinic protestors

originally posted by: kosmicjack
It just goes to show that the moralists pick and choose which "freedoms" are suitable to their agenda.

Which is why nobody should be choosing anyones freedoms other than themselves.

So simple yet seemingly impossible.

It takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to live and let live yet it takes constant effort and resources to tell others how to live.

The path of least resistance, live and let live, should win out here but humans are wonderfully irrational and self-righteous.

originally posted by: beezzer
But people should be allowed to freely assemble in a public arena and express themselves as they see fit.

Unless they disagree with you, however.

You're absolutely wrong. I have stated (see my first post in this thread) that I agree with the SC ruling, so stop putting words in my mouth. I have stood up for Fred Phelps and his crowd, so it's not necessary that people agree with me. I believe in freedom. Freedom to speak your mind and freedom to make choices about personal issues.

YOU are the one who doesn't support the freedom for a woman to have autonomy over her own body.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


YOU are the one who doesn't support the freedom for a woman to have autonomy over her own body.

Wrong.

A woman can do whatever she wants with her body, but what she does with another body, I have issue with.

I am seeing this much on this thread.

I believe in free speech, but. . .
I believe in the 1st Amendment, but. . .
I believe in the right to protest, but. . .

butbutbutbut

So much equivocating going on here!

originally posted by: beezzer
I don't care what a woman does with HER body.

It's what a person does with ANOTHER body is what I have issue with.

And if there's a foreign body IN her body? She shouldn't have the right to have it removed?

Let me ask you a few questions:
1. If abortion became illegal, how would it be enforced? What should happen to the women who got an illegal abortion?
2. Since you want the government making our reproductive decisions, would it be OK with you if the government imposed a law stating that we can only have one child?

originally posted by: beezzer
I am seeing this much on this thread.

I believe in free speech, but. . .
I believe in the 1st Amendment, but. . .
I believe in the right to protest, but. . .

I am not equivocating. I believe in them all. I'm not saying that the protesters shouldn't be permitted to protest. If you have to put words in my mouth to debate me, then your position isn't very strong.

You are saying that you believe in freedom, BUT you believe a woman should be forced by the government to have a child, even if she doesn't want it. You are projecting.

a reply to: beezzer

I'm talking about personal choices and decisions, Beez. Not policy or politics.

For example: Let's say I work with a guy named Joe. Joe is very vocal about abortion and protests the local abortion clinic. Each weekend he stands on the sidewalk telling women that they are morally wrong. Yet, Joe is an alcoholic, or an addict, or an adulterer or perhaps he likes to beat his wife and kids. Whatever...you get the point.

Isn't that hypocritical of him? While he may have the right to do what he is doing, wouldn't an honest person be a bit introspective and realize they have no moral high ground? What does is take for people to realize that we all have issues of some sort and it's dishonest to blast other's for their's.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


And if there's a foreign body IN her body? She shouldn't have the right to have it removed?

Entirely off-topic, abortion has nothing to do with the rights of people to freely assemble. But I'll answer your questions.

1. If abortion became illegal, how would it be enforced? What should happen to the women who got an illegal abortion?

Don't know.

2. Since you want the government making our reproductive decisions, would it be OK with you if the government imposed a law stating that we can only have one child?

Yet you have no problem with government making laws about reproductive decisions.

And no. That would be silly.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: beezzer

I'm talking about personal choices and decisions, Beez. Not policy or politics.

For example: Let's say I work with a guy named Joe. Joe is very vocal about abortion and protests the local abortion clinic. Each weekend he stands on the sidewalk telling women that they are morally wrong. Yet, Joe is an alcoholic, or an addict, or an adulterer or perhaps he likes to beat his wife and kids. Whatever...you get the point.

Isn't that hypocritical of him? While he may have the right to do what he is doing, wouldn't an honest person be a bit introspective and realize they have no moral high ground? What does is take for people to realize that we all have issues of some sort and it's dishonest to blast other's for their's.

"What does is take for people to realize that we all have issues of some sort and it's dishonest to blast other's for their's."

That could apply to anything and everything.

As for what Joe believes or doesn't believe?

It's none of my damned business.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

You are saying that you believe in freedom, BUT you believe a woman should be forced by the government to have a child, even if she doesn't want it. You are projecting.

I believe in personal responsibility.

If pregnancy was spontaneous then you might have a point.

But pregnancy requires a conscious decision on the part of two people.

If you want to bring up rape, then that's a different topic altogether.

originally posted by: beezzer
Yet you have no problem with government making laws about reproductive decisions.

If it expands or protects our privacy or freedom, no, I don't have a problem with it. If it restricts our privacy or freedom, then yes, I do.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

You see an unborn child as a group of cells or a tumor or whatever.

I see an unborn child as an individual that isn't born yet.

We'll never agree.

C'est la via.

But this thread is about the right to freely assemble.

Either you're good with that or you aren't.

originally posted by: beezzer
As for what Joe believes or doesn't believe?

It's none of my damned business.

Exactly. If a woman believes that abortion is a viable way to handle and unwanted pregnancy it's none of your business. If a woman believes she should have the right to make choices about her body, it's none of your business. Since you're male, abortion is no more your business than vasectomy or circumcision is mine.

originally posted by: beezzer
I believe in personal responsibility.

I do, too. I believe each person should act with responsibility. The line comes in at LEGISLATING personal responsibility. Do you believe in LEGISLATING personal responsibility?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: beezzer
As for what Joe believes or doesn't believe?

It's none of my damned business.

Exactly. If a woman believes that abortion is a viable way to handle and unwanted pregnancy it's none of your business. If a woman believes she should have the right to make choices about her body, it's none of your business. Since you're male, abortion is no more your business than vasectomy or circumcision is mine.

But I believe abortion is murder.

So you are saying that if a person kills another person, then we should just shut up?

originally posted by: beezzer
You see an unborn child as a group of cells or a tumor or whatever.

NO I DO NOT! Stop telling me what I think. I see a pregnancy as a precious baby, alive and with the potential to grow into a human being. I have been pregnant. I would never have an abortion.

BUT I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM! Even though I disagree. I believe in the freedom for others to choose to act, based on what THEY believe. You cannot say the same. You impose YOUR beliefs on others.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: beezzer
I believe in personal responsibility.

I do, too. I believe each person should act with responsibility. The line comes in at LEGISLATING personal responsibility. Do you believe in LEGISLATING personal responsibility?

Obviously you believe is legislating the removal of personal responsibility.

You cannot legislate personal responsibility. Through legislation, you can abdicate personal responsibility, which you support.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: beezzer
You see an unborn child as a group of cells or a tumor or whatever.

NO I DO NOT! Stop telling me what I think. I see a pregnancy as a precious baby, alive and with the potential to grow into a human being. I have been pregnant. I would never have an abortion.

BUT I BELIEVE IN FREEDOM! Even though I disagree. I believe in the freedom for others to choose to act, based on what THEY believe. You cannot say the same. You impose YOUR beliefs on others.

I believe murder is wrong.

I wish others thought the same way.

originally posted by: beezzer
But I believe abortion is murder.

You're wrong. Murder is a legal term and abortion is not murder. If it were, it would be illegal, because murder is illegal.

So you are saying that if a person kills another person, then we should just shut up?

No, I'm not. A fetus is not a person. It is not viable. It does not breath. It is not born.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

You're wrong. Murder is a legal term and abortion is not murder. If it were, it would be illegal, because murder is illegal.

Legal term.
*snort*

So we're hiding behind legal terms now?

You are right though. The laws currently say that killing an unborn child is not murder.

a reply to: beezzer

As for what Joe believes or doesn't believe?

It's none of my damned business.

Agreed. My entire point has been that we all need to say more often "it's none of my business".