It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
If evolution isn't true, then that must mean that God creates animal species whole and just deposits them onto the planet, correct?
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Phantom423
Historical documents (which the Bible actually is, and has been proven to be) cannot be compared with fossil evidence dug out of rocks. Nor are historical documents the same as scientific theories. Apples and oranges.
No, evolution is NOT proven, not even close.
originally posted by: Shadow Herder
Evolution and creation are one and the same! Cant have one without the other.
originally posted by: Phantom423
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Phantom423
Historical documents (which the Bible actually is, and has been proven to be) cannot be compared with fossil evidence dug out of rocks. Nor are historical documents the same as scientific theories. Apples and oranges.
No, evolution is NOT proven, not even close.
Ok - I'm ready. Do you want to debate the evidence? Statements like "evolution is NOT proven" are not enough.
We'll debate the hard evidence, point by point. Agreed?
Regarding the Bible and rocks, you were quite impressed with the human footprint and dinosaur footprint found together (or so you think anyway). An historical document can be a fraud too. No one witnessed the event so anything is possible.
originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Phantom423
I wish you luck, mate, but you're on a hiding to nothing, believe me.
originally posted by: ArtemisE
originally posted by: Phantom423
originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Phantom423
Historical documents (which the Bible actually is, and has been proven to be) cannot be compared with fossil evidence dug out of rocks. Nor are historical documents the same as scientific theories. Apples and oranges.
No, evolution is NOT proven, not even close.
Ok - I'm ready. Do you want to debate the evidence? Statements like "evolution is NOT proven" are not enough.
We'll debate the hard evidence, point by point. Agreed?
Regarding the Bible and rocks, you were quite impressed with the human footprint and dinosaur footprint found together (or so you think anyway). An historical document can be a fraud too. No one witnessed the event so anything is possible.
The bible is only a historical document if you consider the maharaja, the Iliad, and Greek mythology historical documents.
The only "proven" parts of the bible are that Jesus probubally did exist (without the miricales). And the locations of a few anchient towns. NONE of the miracles have been proven at all and all of the big supernatural events (global flood, creation) have been debunked.
originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes
I have to admit that I tend to go by my somewhat leaky memory but one thing I remember and always have is the tenet around which all theory is supposed to be based, that a theory can never be proven but only supported and of course any contrary evidence therefore according to the rule or Tenet there in stated invalidates the theory in it's current state meaning a theory is only viable as long as there is absolutley no unexpected result's or parameters.
Of course some theorem are so long winded and took so long to arrive at that they are still used widely today even though they are known to be wrong and sadly new theorem tend to be based on current models which therefore inherit the legacy of there flaw's.
A workaround is to add Chaos theory to explain unexpected and random result's but in fact it is litterally a cop out as they do not currently have a better theory than there flawed one that return's these unexpected/unpredicted result's.
There is no chaos only a system that is beyond our ability to model and therefore whose parameters we truly do not know, it may even be that our current reality is in a constant state of change and in periods of the past the world may have inhabited a quite different reality, the very foundation law's of the universe may be in flux and a constant state of change making reality fluid or chaotic rather than set and fixed which further would have implications on current working model's held so dearly by many, quantum physicists are aware of this conundrum and it tend's to give some of them a headache.
Imagin a reality shift caused by interactions in the membrane interactions of superspace and the corresponding effect upon our percieved law's and state of reality, it may even be possible that entire technologys could suddenly stop working or may have in the past or future as the science they are based upon was no longer valid due to a dimensional law change to the structure of reality itself, this is even more possible if the idea of the holographic universe is used as a basis.
originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Phantom423
Hmm so you have a grudge agains people seeking god in there own way, well so be it, please define for me what faith is and why you would deny a crutch to a lame man, people have a right to seek what they believe and creationists are only doing harm on the occasion that they are knowing fraudsters which is by the way then not creationism but something that is litterally against our religion otherwise they should be treated as providing an opinion and theory like any theory if you wish to live in an ultra mechanical world that is.
Oh and by the way you can not concieve of god let alone define him in your circular small consciousness that is doomed to only see what it can see, hear what it can hear, believe it know's what it think's it knows and to try to construct hypothesis to explain or predict what it can not explain or predict.
You wish a challenge, then here is one, do you exist, what is existance, how did it come to be, is everything from nothing or is there a cause to the effect and how does this paradox make any sense given the parameter's of your own perception of reality.
When moses asked the being at the burning bush who it was it replied "I AM THAT I AM" now many especially atheists philosophers relate that statement erronously to a french philosopher.
I am that I am, I am whom I am.
How does something exist if there was nothing extant and if there was something extant what was it, if it was independant of the universe could it be god.
There is your challenge, not symentecs but by your own measure a calculated and precise answer please as this nebulous subject has no answer and you too are wrong.
Or is the world only right if you expla
This is a challenge to Creationists, of which I think you are one. That's the challenge. A Creationist is not a Christian. So if you are a Christian, the challenge is not for you.
edit on 28-6-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Phantom423
OK do you accept that christ walked in the flesh, that is a valid question for you because I absolutely do and here is another for you, who the hell do you think you are to judge other's and I put it to you that you think that by trying to work a dark atheist agenda and try to play christians against one another that you are being clever, your are not.
You judged so you have been judged go any further and I will leave it to the lord to deal with you for as it is I have given you a cop out by passing my own judgement on your post and all he would do is maybe metaphorically bang our head's together but I know your game, it is to create discension and try to drive a reverse psychological wedge into the christian argument and to deny that creationists are christian is the most ridiculous and obviously atheist or even satanic argument I have ever heard.
You know the devil lost dont you, he is waiting only for his demise but is allowed to torment as some are actually his spawn or should I say the turs among the wheat to use the biblical metaphor and sadly it is not cut and dry because we are all contaminated in that respect but through christ we as purified, they are not and will burn with there master or be cast into the outer darkness (Which is not what you think but a universe devoid of god's love so it is a hell and they shall hunger for love which currently nourishes them as it does all god's children, at that time though they are condemned as abominations that they are).
Do you even know what you are talking about.
I will leave the balance here as it is but the like's of you that want to deny chrisitans any sign of god's truth are harming the most vulnerable and easily swayed by your false argument, by the way I have seen things you would not believe and fought them so I know they are there and I know god is too as without him I would not be today.
SO I PUT IT TO YOU THAT IT IS PATENTLY OBVIOUS THAT a. YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN and b. YOU ARE TRYING TO ATTACK CHRISTIAN FAITH IN A WAY EVEN AN ATHEIST WOULD NOT, but a troll might.