The problem that I have with 99% of local churches.

Im a Christian...a Dispensationalist to be exact. I try to follow as closely as possible to the theology outlined in the Madoretic Texts (cross referenced with the Septuagint when needed), and the Greek New Testament. I believe in a clear distinction between the Age of Israel and the Church Age: Israel was bound to the Levitical Laws, and the Church is released from the Levitical Law to serve under the Law of Grace.

With the above statement in mind, I'd like to know why do pastors like to push the out-dated system of tithing on their congregations? Secondly, why are the congregations so willing to fork over 10% of their monthly earnings to these people?

No where in the NT, will you find the command or mere suggestion of tithe collection as a valid Church function. Tithing was an OT tax that was given to support the Levitical Priesthood, since they had no inheretance in the Land. It often was as high as 20%, and usually involved crops and livestock, but rarely money.

Now I do undetstand the principle of offerings, and I do give according to my own volition, but to ask for tithes is just legalistic coercion.

The reason Im so disgusted by this, is that tithing seems to spoil Pastors and congregations. Pastors begin to feel comfortable with the steady influx of cash and often the money goes to ridiculously expensive musical equipment, fellowship halls, remodelling, etc. Before you know it, you find members going to church for entertainment value and free lunches. What happened to the message? How did we allow 99% of our worship gatherings become a "lonely hearts club"?

I just recently found a church that I enjoyed. The preacher taught straight from the bible, but he asked for tithes like the rest of the Southern Baptist Bible Belt. It was just announced that 6/29/14 will be the final service before that church closes. Just like that, they didnt meet the budget, so they throw in the towel. Meanwhile, in countries like China, Iran, parts of Africa, Christians have to meet in secret. Often times, there is no budget to keep, and people have no money to give.

The American Church has become another corperation, like any other fastfood chain or department store. Its customer service, and you never get what you pay for. This is very depressing.

Well, the ministers try to use the money to satisfy some of the people in the church to do projects and it goes overboard and the church finances get messed up. It happens in a lot of churches. Then they start pushing for money from the congregation.

I don't know how they get into that mess, that is not what Jesus taught. You do not have to belong to any church to be a Christian. All you need is to believe in god and be baptized. That comes fright from the bible. Helping those who really need help is also something we are supposed to do if we can. Just make sure that the people really need your help, if they are blowing the money they have on desires instead of needs, then the help they need is with learning to budget.

a reply to: rickymouse

Im just tired of finding a comatose congregation in every church I walk into. I know Jesus said that where 2 or 3 gather in His name, He is there, but in my area it all canned sermons and pot-lucks. I visited another church just last sunday, and it felt like the Manson Family was holding the service. America is in bad shape.

Well, churches may be exempt from taxation, but that doesn't mean they get free utilities or anything else the rest of us have to pay for. Additionally, if you have a pastor who is a full-time person, they have to be able to eat, pay their taxes, pay their bills, too. Then, there are all the charity projects and other things churches try to do.

The funds for those things don't grow on trees.

Like it or not, if you want to have a church, you need to have a source of money, and that usually comes from the congregation because where else is it going to come from?

That doesn't mean we have to like it, but it does mean that if you join a church, you will want to make sure you keep an eye on where any money you offer goes, just like you would with any charity or cause you give money to.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The American Church has become another corperation, like any other fastfood chain or department store.

Are you just realising this now?

I mean seriously... what isn't about money these days?

a reply to: ketsuko

I have no problem with giving on a regular basis. Its obvious that money has to come from somewhere, but giving and tithing are two very different things. Tithing was a Levitical tax. Giving comes from the heart, and a pastor that is doing his job should not have to ask for a dime. A truely spirit filled congregation will support its church autonomously. I know of one church in Houston, TX that never once asked for a dime. They accepted donations, but never asked. That church is Berachah Church, and its been that way since the early 60's. Unfortunately I dont live in Texas, but it does baffle me that I can not find another single church that works similarly. Not to say they dont exist, but its like finding a needle in a hay-stack.

Like I said, TITHING is not a NT function. That belonged to the Levitical Rite.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Well, it may also be that there is a deliberate confusing of tithe and offering. I know in the church I was raised in, the two were used interchangeably. We always put something in the plate when it came by, but I don't think we ever tithed 10%. I also don't think that amounts were ever used.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The American Church has become another corperation, like any other fastfood chain or department store.

Are you just realising this now?

I mean seriously... what isn't about money these days?

Ive spent most of my Christian life studying the recorded research of Pastor R.B.Theime Jr, from home. Sunday morning church is a relatively new experience to me, and so far Im not impressed. Most of the local churches go contrary to the biblical definition of gathering in Christ.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: rickymouse

Im just tired of finding a comatose congregation in every church I walk into. I know Jesus said that where 2 or 3 gather in His name, He is there, but in my area it all canned sermons and pot-lucks. I visited another church just last sunday, and it felt like the Manson Family was holding the service. America is in bad shape.

Pot lucks. I like potlucks....all that homemade food.

Now, I don't know what the average US wage is, the figures are all over the place. But let us try some numbers.

At 10% Tithe with a congregation of 300. That would be 300 * 10% = 30 times the average wage.
At $35,000 pa that makes just over $1 Million pa

At 20% Tithe with a congregation of 300. That would be 300 * 20% = 60 times the average wage.
At $35,000 pa that makes just over $2 Million pa

Nice job! Now, ask yourself a question. How much did Jesus earn? What car does the pastor drive. Jesus had a donkey, he did not have a horse let alone a thoroughbred.

From one of my books.

"...... if my followers give trouble, send them to my Gates, they serve themselves and have distorted my teachings."

I mean really, no matter how you move the figures around these people are earning up to 60 times the average earnings, with tax free status AND when the roof needs fixing, they ask for special donations! How many hours a week do they work, um... Sunday mornings and um .... yea!

I wonder what their hourly rate really is?

Come on ... wakey wakey, hands off sna.......

P

You may want to look up a assembly like en.wikipedia.org... . In all the time I went they never preached money or passed around a plate .Their doctrine is quite sound biblical and although they may bring in a special speaker from time to time they don't usually have a paid pastor but instead share the work among themselves . a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: rickymouse

Im just tired of finding a comatose congregation in every church I walk into. I know Jesus said that where 2 or 3 gather in His name, He is there, but in my area it all canned sermons and pot-lucks. I visited another church just last sunday, and it felt like the Manson Family was holding the service. America is in bad shape.

You will find this 'comatose congregation' in almost every country and church service all over the world! I've attended these sorts of church services in Zimbabwe, South Africa and Australia - and they are all the same.

By their fruits you will know them! And this lack of any real evidence of God in church, convinced me that my search for God had to be outside of the churches - and I was right!

I had to laugh at myself - the very idea of looking for God outside of church left me dumbfounded as to where to look, but if you seek Him, He will find you!

I do have to say that your current religious beliefs may hinder you, so keep in mind to "Trust God, and not lean on your own understanding'. Expect the unexpected...

I'm not religious, this is probably the reason, the greed and hypocrisy! About 15 year ago I was young and lost, raising children on my own. And having a hard time. I looked into a local church thinking maybe we needed to be saved. Lol. The first thing that happened when we walked into the door is I was taken aside and told how much I should pay for membership and monthly fees. I did not have enough money and was told to leave!

The fundamental message of the bible is sacrifice, the priest is the representation of god to which you must sacrifice to.

Tithing is NOT a commandment from God. It's a twisted interpretation of scripture and it's crammed down the throats of believers in order for churches to get an income and for the pastors to get some $$$. Giving at church should be entirely voluntary and it should be whatever good will offering the people want to give. Using guilt and 'it's God's law' in reference to tithing ... that's just wrong.

All believers are Priests in the Church age. There is no one to pay tithes to...at least there should not be.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
You may want to look up a assembly like en.wikipedia.org... . In all the time I went they never preached money or passed around a plate .Their doctrine is quite sound biblical and although they may bring in a special speaker from time to time they don't usually have a paid pastor but instead share the work among themselves . a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

This is actually pretty interesting, there is one not to far from where I live. I might pay them a visit. Thanks.

There's a guy named Trey Smith who wrote a book about stealing a safe from the home televangelist Mike Murdock. Trey grew up best friends with Murdock's son. Through this affiliation Smith saw the dark side of the prosperity doctrine. Fleecing the flock Murdock was able to acquire a palatial estate, fancy cars, women and drugs.

The titular safe was located in a closet in Murdocks home which contained cabinets of jewelry and rare coins sent by those who could not donate cash directly. I haven't read the book but in a radio interview he recounted a story that would seem to indicate the type of person Murdock is. During one of their revivals a woman who was apparently not of sound mind came and donated the proceeds from selling her home to the ministry and with no where else to go began living on the street near the ministry HQ. When the staff asked Murdock to return the woman's money he stated "God doesn't give refunds."

Magaziine article detailing the heist. (contains some inappropriate language)

Trey Smith's website

"No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money"
Matthew 6:24

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you could only see the irony of your question. On one hand you still believe that Israel is under the law, and yet you are questioning an OT practice. I agree that there is no NT commandment to tithe, however we as Christians are commanded to give sacrificially. As Christians, we should be a willing giver to our local church, because like everyone else, they do have bills and salaries to pay. On the other hand, if your Pastor is driving an $80,000 car, then perhaps you may want to rethink what Church you are going to. As far as Israel is concerned... why do the vast majority of Christians believe that a modern day nation created by the satanic NWO government (The UN) in 1948 is equivalent to the Biblical nation of Israel, which God destroyed, only leaving the Southern Kingdom of Judah? As far as the false doctrine of dispensationalism is concerned, or what I like to call Israel Worship, maybe another time.

If you have an open mind and are really a seeker of the truth, watch this video.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

I don't know, but when it comes to Israel, the modern nation, my perspective is that the NWO (UN) felt they needed to make a grand gesture after the horrors of what the Nazis did to the Jews, so they gave them a tiny and hard-to-defend chunk of more or less worthless land in the middle of the desert where they'd be surrounded by people who wanted to massacre them. The UN figured the Arabs would finish what the Nazis started and the world could wash their hands of the Jews, more or less.