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So England suck at Footie, but how would a UK team have fared?

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posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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Yes, we suck. Now that's out of the way, lets face another fact.

The UK are unique in having 4 national teams from one "Kingdom" - England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland... probably only allowed as we got the whole thing started and the rest of the world can chuckle at our pomposity and general uselessness.

Despite there being 4 FA's and leagues, it aint really cricket if we're honest about it (imo) and the only time we tried a UK team afaik is in the recent Olympics which barely counts.

So would we have been any better as a unit? How would a UK team have fared over the last 20 years if Ryan Giggs could have provided us with a left wing? Jeez, even Keith Gillespie may have got a game, so right footed are the clod-hopping Ingerlund. Imagine having Gareth Bale available!

So who else from outside of England would have improved a UK team?

I'm going back over the last 30 years or so (mostly)... Alan Hansen would surely have made us a lot better and so would Dalgleish without doubt... go back further and we could have one of the all time greats in George Best.

But who else is there... i can think of a fair few more but i'd like to hear other's thoughts.... lets take it as read that there was no option to play for one of the current nations; so if they wouldn't play for the UK, it's no National Footie, World Cups and Euro Championships for you laddie, however unfair and Billy Britain that makes it.




posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: skalla

A Yank here so please accept my apologies if I sound uneducated on the matter


You guys have the Premier League as a talent pool. Some of the best in the world. While the US has MLS, it is no where near the caliber and the US team is still in the mix in Brazil. For how long, we will have to see.

I cannot understand how England fared so poorly. A draw with Costa Rica? Granted they are a surprise this year but not even a goal? I don't get it.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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Well, we have the British Lions when it comes to rugby.........
I don't know enough about footie these days....but all the 'golden oldies' you've named I know!


Rainbows
Jane



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:30 PM
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a reply to: ABNARTY

When you can import ready made talent from abroad because the league is awash with TV and sugar-daddy money, local talent is rarely developed and given a chance.

Plus our coaching of kids and youth players is positively antiquated and expectations and pressure from the media are way overboard.

Simples



edit on 24-6-2014 by skalla because: omission

edit on 24-6-2014 by skalla because: typo



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: skalla

1=Pat Jennings
2=Denis Irwin
3=Ashley Coe
4=Alan Hansen
5=Paul McGrath
6=Roy Keane
7=Kenny Dalglish
8=Gareth Bale
9=Ian Rush
10=Mark Hughes
11=George Best

Manager= Alex Ferguson

That is my United Kingdom team from the last 30 years.
Only room for one englishman....

edit on 24/6/14 by SecretKnowledge because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: ABNARTY

Costa Rica beat Uruguay 3-1 and Italy 1-0 in this group both are former World Cup winners and both were in the current 10 top ranked nations in the world. Uruguay are current South American Champions, Italy finished 2nd in the last European Championships.

This was a tough group for an emerging England team, make no mistake. The other issue is that only some
35% of players in the Premier League are actually English. Currently no English players are playing in any of the top European leagues to select from either. It is a problem of our own making. Many fans do not care about England either supporting their clubs only.

However I will not take anything away from the performance of the US team. They have done well in both matches so far in what is an exciting World Cup.

As to addressing the OP I doubt a UK team would make that much difference in the modern era, yes maybe in the 70s - early 90s the Scots, Welsh and Irish lads would have made a difference. But other than Bale who would really make it into the full team from the Celtic nations these days. Maybe you could make a case for Ramsey and perhaps Taylor would get in there. Joe Allen? another maybe but not definites. Sadly the influx of ready made international players and over hyped prices of domestic players has also reduced the talent pool of British players.

People will always argue that if you are good enough you'll make it but the truth is you have to be exceptional by the time you are 18 or 19 to make it at the top level in most cases. Even when they do they can still end up like Jack Rodwell at Manchester City. Earning more than you and I do in a year every week and no longer playing much in the Premier League.



Another point is if the Scots leave the UK we'll only have the English, Welsh and Northern Irish to pick from.
edit on 24/6/14 by mirageman because: edit



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: SecretKnowledge

I like where you went with that, i had Rush and Hughes very firmly in mind too.

But Irwin, McGrath and Keane played for Eire (as i'm sure you know) so good luck getting them to play for the UK!!!



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: SecretKnowledge
a reply to: skalla

1=Pat Jennings
2=Denis Irwin
3=Ashley Coe
4=Alan Hansen
5=Paul McGrath
6=Roy Keane
7=Kenny Dalglish
8=Gareth Bale
9=Ian Rush
10=Mark Hughes
11=George Best

Manager= Alex Ferguson

That is my United Kingdom team from the last 30 years.
Only room for one englishman....


You might have to think again as the 3 in bold are not from the the UK

edit on 24/6/14 by mirageman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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a reply to: skalla

I remember friendly were normal side team's beat some of the top national teams and this was because they could pick and choose there players as long as they could afford them from the best there was on the international scene but even on a national level a UK team would have had a better chance than a team drawn from a reduced player pool, it is just simple statistics but also it was on alien ground for them, the weather may have been too warm, there hotel sucked and they never realized until it was too late just how good the other team's are especially the latin american teams which are the best in the world.
Remember football was seen as a way out of poverty for the poor kids in the favelas so there are probably un signed kids our player's were driving past in the suburbs of rio whom were better than any player on our team or most european teams and that is a simple fact, football is a way of life for them and it is not that for us anymore, pubs are empty with less pub team's and football in the uk is now about sponsorship and money not team pride or a good laugh on the pitch with a pint afterward's.
Anyway it is not about winning the world cup but beating germany is the real dream and fat chance of that as they have three times as many players to choose from as england and nearly twice as many as the UK despite being more than one country (Bavaria, saxony rheinland etc indeed they are more properly called a federation of states).



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 03:56 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

You are so right regarding the seventies and eighties having a glut of great celtic players, and it would be a crime to leave Aaron Ramsey out too if you ask me


A few others from the 70's and 80's? Charlie Nicholas in his pomp and the bruising Andy Gray would have been shoe-ins if you ask me.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:02 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Oh right, i was thinking of premiership players not uk players
D'oh...

And im Irish ffs!



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: skalla

Andy Gray's compatriot Graeme Sharp was a vastly underrated forward at the time but I don't think any of them were better than the Beardsley-Lineker forward line England had in the late 1980s. Although Rush and Dalglish would have run them very close.

The other thing is why can't we produce World Class keepers any more? Back in the 1980s we had Shilts and Clemence (Corrigan and Parkes coudn't even get in the England squad) Southall, Jennings, Leighton and a few others I'm sure I've forgotten.


edit on 24/6/14 by mirageman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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Keep it up boys!
I'm really enjoying seeing all these old names crop up from the days I used to watch football......when England would be on the attack all the time, not ponsing it around passing the ball from one another in their own half as though they are out for a hot Sunday afternoon knock about as they do today.

Rainbows
Jane



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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It pains me to say this but we played absolutely ......

We need fundamentle changes to the way we bring homegrown players through the ranks I know there the b team scenario the same as the Spanish but we need to get right down at grass routs level to make changes

If only there was the same passion the yanks got with all levels of their 'football' down to the pee wee leagues
We will start to see changes



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: mirageman

Beardsley and Lineker were such a great pairing that it is had to see too far past them, but Dalgleigh beats Beardsley for me skill wise (despite my love of PB) - it's probably irrelevant though as the younger beardo would simply have replaced KD when he got older and his legs went. Regarding Andy Gray, i'm a Wolves fan and my Dad supports the Villa so i'm a bit biased i guess!

And we did produce such wonderful keepers too, it was a bit of a golden age in that regard and unfortunately it's unlikely to happen again i reckon.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: SecretKnowledge

Pat Jennings and George Best - in the last 30 years? More like 40 or 50 years ago them two.

And no Paul Gascoigne or Glen Hoddle? (for a fleeting moment Gazza was possibly the best player in the world and for all the absolute bollocks Hoddle spouts nowadays there is no denying he was a marvellously talented player who England never got the best out of).

England's problems aren't new, they are the same now as they were 40+ years ago, they're just more apparent now and to be fair the state of football in England probably mirrors the greater malaise that exists in England in general at present - but I guess that's a discussion for another time and place.

As has been said previously I suspect only Gareth Bale and Aaron Ramsey would be seriously considered for inclusion in a current UK squad - and that is a pretty damning indictment of British football as a whole.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

Right now i cant put a single Scot or Northern Irishman in a UK team which is a shame and that poses an interesting question - should it matter where in the UK they are from? If you are good enough then you are in and that's that really. No doubt a Scot or Norn Iron supporter would feel sore but who wants Leigh Griffiths and Kyle Lafferty up front?

ETA: A bit of organisation and determination welded to a couple of truly class players can be enough to go a long way. Bale would go a long way to helping things, if only we could get the others to play with some nous and nuts.

edit on 24-6-2014 by skalla because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 05:13 PM
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a reply to: skalla

I remember as a kid there was a saying 'all great English teams have a Scotsman in' - and it was true.

Kenny Dalglish, Hansen, Ron Yeats and Souness at Liverpool.
Frank McLintock, George Graham and Nicholas at Arsenal.
Martin Buchan, Denis Law and Pat Crerand at Man Utd.
Don McKay with Spurs and Derby County.

And who could forget the Leeds team with Billy Bremner, Eddie Gray and my childhood hero Peter Lorimer.

And of all the footballers who plied their trade solely in Scotland for me there's been none better than Paul McStay - a truly world class player who could have earned vast amounts of money yet remained with Celtic throughout his career.

The Welsh?
As has been said obviously there was Giggs, Hughes and Rush who would all have commanded a place in a combined UK squad.
And so would Neville Southall and Kevin Ratcliffe.

Apart from Pat Jennings and George Best I'm afraid the only other footballers from Northern Ireland who I can recall at present who I think would have been included in such a squad are Martin O'Neil and Norman Whiteside - I'm sure there's others though.



edit on 24/6/14 by Freeborn because: grammar



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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a reply to: skalla

I'm from Australia, you want to talk about a team that played OK but still sucks bad, my team are the go. Maybe we should unite with New Zealand and the Pacific Islands lol



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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skalla and mirageman

I had no idea so few in the PL were from England. I wonder how tiny Costa Rica generates the talent pool then?

In the end the PL and FIFA for that matter are businesses. They generate revenue. The US team and MLS are no different. Some of the players don't even speak English. Nothing against a hard working kid with talent to go where they pay him the best.



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