The answer to raising wages at Walmart and McDonalds.

originally posted by: g146541
a reply to: MarlinGrace
Nice avoidance there, will you answer the question?
Is the quality of life OVERALL better than it was 30 years ago?

How come nobody is ever happy with my answer? For me personally 30 years ago I was getting divorced living in a small apartment, eating peanut butter sandwiches so the EX could keep the house and my son would have his home. In essence his life wouldn't change. I worked full time as an engineer during the day and started my own repair business at night. I paid for both places and had enough left over for sandwiches and pots of spaghetti. Thats it.

It was worth it in the end but at the time it was very difficult to say the least. No complaint I have been blessed with a great life, but I didn't depend on anyone else to make it that way. I did it myself, a pickup truck a box of tools, and late nights. During that period the truck was stolen with all the tools and I had to start over again.

What started my desire to be self employed my Father in law was laid off after 35 years at Maxfactor , was a shop steward, with a strong union. They moved the company to the east coast. I thought after 35 years and this is what happens? You can't depend on companies like you could in the old days. Really the only one you can depend on is you.
So I decided I wouldn't stop until I figured out how to make it work.

This is why sometimes I have little patience for people that complain about their jobs. It's only because of my lifes experience. I think these kinds of things can still happen today if you want it bad enough. I have said before I have met many, many people from other countries that came here with nothing and became very wealthy through hard work.

My 2.5 cents

a reply to: seabag
And I thank you for a fairly clear response!
I see the point you make about "where" the money will come from and I have to agree.
But I will shop elsewhere and do my best to keep revenue local.

As far as my limiting anyone from earning, I do not.
I simply suggest that if a corporation gets the honor of being the one with a stranglehold on the American economy, maybe now and then they could at least give us a reach around or something.
You know I love you baby, you don't have to be so rough!

I can see that if you can look back 30 years, you must be retired or close to it, this is why your quality has gone up.
My quality is up to ehh maybe the same, I don't want or need for anything I guess is the most important thing, but I am retired too and do not have to compete for slave wages in a non existent job pool.
These problems did not start with BarryO however, they were in motion waaay back even before BillyC's NAFTA.

I am still unclear if the video would be considered a strawman though.

Good chat though.

originally posted by: seabag

originally posted by: chiefsmom
How about we put our big boy pants on, and do what we need to do, to live the way we want to live?

Way back when, I had to have 2 jobs, to make due, with the extras I wanted.
And today? A co worker has taken a second job. She can live on this one, but needs some extra to pay for a surprise expense.

What is so wrong with that?

Or, just get on welfare. Then you can afford the newest phone.

Exactly.

Instead of talking about "living wages" how about you go earn one!!

Nobody should be led to believe that work done at an entry level position, such as McDonalds or a Walmart cashier, somehow rates a "living wage". Just because you show up and do a little work doesn't mean you get a new car, house, 401K, etc. It takes more than that, children. Time to face reality!

Also a good point.
When I was younger my Grandfather and I got into an argument about minimum wage, I said to him, "How in the hell can you raise a family on minimum wage"?
He replied "You aren't supposed to raise a family on minimum wage, those JOBS are only placeholders and kids work"!!
I though he was an arrogant ass for a while until I realized I was the ass for thinking the way I did.

The true problem is due to this or that, the only jobs available are walmart, mcdonalds, Etc. for the most part.
I believe this to be intentional, and we should apply pressure on the right spot.
Walmart is already dabbling in banking, I can't wait until they get into the service industries, HVAC and plumbing!

a reply to: g146541

But I will shop elsewhere and do my best to keep revenue local.

How confident are you that the employees at the local stores you frequent (instead of Walmart) are any better off than the employees at Walmart? Have you talked to them? What are their wages and benefits in comparison?

I simply suggest that if a corporation gets the honor of being the one with a stranglehold on the American economy, maybe now and then they could at least give us a reach around or something.
You know I love you baby, you don't have to be so rough!

LOL

While I agree in principle, I do not feel any corporation owes anyone anything. I don’t take handouts and I don’t feel entitled to someone else’s profits.

I can see that if you can look back 30 years, you must be retired or close to it, this is why your quality has gone up.

I’m 40 and very much in the peak of my earning potential…I’m long from retirement.

My quality is up to ehh maybe the same, I don't want or need for anything I guess is the most important thing, but I am retired too and do not have to compete for slave wages in a non existent job pool. These problems did not start with BarryO however, they were in motion waaay back even before BillyC's NAFTA.

I think these problem are a result of government policies and a culture that breeds laziness and dependence rather than rewarding hard work and self reliance.

I am still unclear if the video would be considered a strawman though.


Good chat though.

Cheers!

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: MarlinGrace

I've seen a large amount of charitable organisations start up on the net.

Why doesn't someone start an on-line charity (start with Walmart) and simply state that if you think the minimum wage is not enough, put your money where your mouth is.

This charity will then allow Walmart employees to take from it what they need. All those who complain about the poor wages can then feel good that they are providing for people that cannot provide for themselves.

Perfect Beez.. It will be an interesting experiment.

a reply to: shaneslaughta

Your assessment of the machinations of that period jive with mine. Father and son, each worse than the other. However, their complicity in murdering the American economy should not overshadow the capitalization, as I mentioned above, of the title "Slick".

a reply to: MarlinGrace
Good answer then!
So with your business, being an entrepreneur you can and did support yourself!
I applaud you.
But your tools were stolen you say, maybe the thief got laid off as well and he turned to crime??
It is possible.
How will your business do nowadays that there are not enough paying customers to support your business though?
We are all in a loop that is the economy, no customers means cannibalization, then death.
Sure I'm doing OK, but I no longer have to compete, my kids might not be able to say the same.
We are all in this loop together, and corporations are putting the finishing move on us.
Best hang together or we will surely hang in a walmart brand graveyard.

or, we can stop letting corporations write the laws, or give money to influence politicians....they are a business entity, not a form of government. and yet, throughout the world they control how governments are run, and how people live day to day....if we had a government by the people, corporations would be restricted as to the amount of power, profits, and control they would possess, they would have to benefit all people, not a select few.
corporations are clever creations, they privatize profits, all the while socializing any losses...when BP had to pay out billions in damages and cleanup, not one executive that had the responsibility to ensure that the oil spill did not happen, paid anything out of their individual wealth...and yet, when it's the common man who does damage, they are held personally responsible for paying out the cost of that damage

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I'm heading to Walmart in a little bit, I'll be one of the first to try this (even though I find myself one of those on the side of needing an extra ten dollar bill once-in-a-while.)

I can tell you right now, fat chance in it leaving your hand. It's a yer-ass-is-gone firing offense at most jobs these days to accept a tip. Take the Publix grocery chain here in FL. They have a policy to have the baggers offer to escort the customers with their full carts to the customers' cars. **Edit** I should also note that it is required of the baggers to offer to load the groceries into the cars, also. Big honkin' signs plaster up front stating in a nutshell, "Tipping is not accepted, please don't." Of course these baggers do it when asked, but cannot accept tips no matter what (cameras are everywhere, would you risk it?) What makes it even worse in my neighborhood is that the majority of the employees are elderly people (70, 80+) trying to supplement their retirement. A lot of them can barely move from the bagging end. I've complained several times in emails and to the managers that at the very least, the baggers running cartloads out to the cars should be allowed small tips. I've heard the "I understand, but I really can't do anything about it, it's corporate's decision" line so many times. THAT is the problem. They don't get a say in whether or not their store can allow tipping, it's the jack-offs in the main offices. Take that into consideration before you tempt someone to risk their job for $10 bucks.

a reply to: seabag

How confident are you that the employees at the local stores you frequent (instead of Walmart) are any better off than the employees at Walmart? Have you talked to them? What are their wages and benefits in comparison?

Actually I cannot say as I have never asked, I can say however that every dollar I keep from walmart, while not weakening the beast at least does not feed it either.
Jerry Lewis used to say all those little pennies add up to a lot!

LOL

While I agree in principle, I do not feel any corporation owes anyone anything. I don’t take handouts and I don’t feel entitled to someone else’s profits.

I'm not asking for handouts either, just maybe they could sell mostly Items made in the US rather than cheap Chinese crap.
We have a case of the serpent eating its own tail here and eventually this system has to die the way it is going.
I truly don't have all of the answers but maybe my suggestion could be a start.

The rest I can't say I have a rebuttal as I pretty much see it that way.

Salute!

This idea of tipping employees at either company would result in a dismissal. It would do more harm, than good. Unfortunately. Of course it should be up to the discretion of whoever decides to tip and give away their money but this protocol employed by both companies stops that happening for a variety of reasons.

These are the go to company's used to give examples of low pay, poor working conditions etc but they are each, one of many company's under a capitalistic system which seems unfair and unjust. Conversely, compared to many other countries, where companies look to exploit the employee as much as possible, these two offer fair jobs with relatively decent conditions to work in and earn money from. It is all relative.

It's not so much the companies themselves but the system in which they exist in, which enables them to get away with what they do. This is what should be given the most attention to, rather than pointing the finger at the few obvious examples who are of course going to utilise anything to their advantage.

originally posted by: g146541
a reply to: MarlinGrace
Good answer then!
So with your business, being an entrepreneur you can and did support yourself!
I applaud you.
But your tools were stolen you say, maybe the thief got laid off as well and he turned to crime??
It is possible.
How will your business do nowadays that there are not enough paying customers to support your business though?
We are all in a loop that is the economy, no customers means cannibalization, then death.
Sure I'm doing OK, but I no longer have to compete, my kids might not be able to say the same.
We are all in this loop together, and corporations are putting the finishing move on us.
Best hang together or we will surely hang in a walmart brand graveyard.

I don't know if that is why they stole the truck or not. A not so funny part of the story was 2 days after the truck was stolen CHP sent a letter to the house saying they found it. The soon to be EX didn't say a word and she knew the truck was stolen. She also knew I had borrowed my brothers motorcycle, for 2 weeks it rained everyday. She never said a word. It was the first and only time I considered killing anyone. Retired now health condition at 56 years young. The only work I do now is create blueprints for contractors, create a little web design, and the wife and
I just started another business for a yearly event. I would rather work with my hands, but I have to keep my mind busy.

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: Rezlooper
I'm heading to Walmart in a little bit, I'll be one of the first to try this (even though I find myself one of those on the side of needing an extra ten dollar bill once-in-a-while.)

I can tell you right now, fat chance in it leaving your hand. It's a yer-ass-is-gone firing offense at most jobs these days to accept a tip. Take the Publix grocery chain here in FL. They have a policy to have the baggers offer to escort the customers with their full carts to the customers' cars. **Edit** I should also note that it is required of the baggers to offer to load the groceries into the cars, also. Big honkin' signs plaster up front stating in a nutshell, "Tipping is not accepted, please don't." Of course these baggers do it when asked, but cannot accept tips no matter what (cameras are everywhere, would you risk it?) What makes it even worse in my neighborhood is that the majority of the employees are elderly people (70, 80+) trying to supplement their retirement. A lot of them can barely move from the bagging end. I've complained several times in emails and to the managers that at the very least, the baggers running cartloads out to the cars should be allowed small tips. I've heard the "I understand, but I really can't do anything about it, it's corporate's decision" line so many times. THAT is the problem. They don't get a say in whether or not their store can allow tipping, it's the jack-offs in the main offices. Take that into consideration before you tempt someone to risk their job for $10 bucks.

I didn't know this, originally I am from California had a business maintaining, building, designing car washes. It was standard procedure to tip the employees when having your car washed. My best customer was in a very affluent area and his people made great money, almost all from tips. No sharing you got what you earned. Some guys had been there 15 years. Just thought it would work everywhere, never thought it would be against company policy. The jackasses. Well Beezer has the answer.

>>
reach in to your pocket and give the cashier a 10 dollar bill. T
>>

Why is it that in the US the idea of some bizarre charity is more accepted than the idea that the corporate/employer is the one who is supposed to pay their employees a decent wage? Are you getting paid by McDonalds for spreading this silly idea? Do you think McDonalds Corp. doesn't have enough money so begging to the common Joe instead would be the solution?

This for me is as abstruse and bizarre as to see there are "medical crowd-sourcing sites" for people in hospitals in the states where they are openly begging the public to donate money so they can pay for a surgery. Rather than a halfa$$ solution, FIX your problems AT THE ROOT, and not with silly workaround ideas.

**

Edit: What this comes down to, as so often, you simply swallow everything and allow the corporates to do whatever they want, HOWEVER when it comes to changing and improving things it's NOT the corporates/employers you're looking to but instead make this a problem of the common people. In some way this is as absurd as to complain about low wages at companies XYZ and propose a "solution" that those who are getting paid not enough should simply sit at the streets, begging. They can then explain their problem to any passerby on the street which would have an opportunity to "fix" the problem by throwing a few coins in a hat. Seriously...facepalm.

originally posted by: MarlinGrace
There have been several threads, some claiming taxpayer sponsored wages. Some claiming minimum pay is all employees will ever get. Well it occurred to me for all you people who think they are not paid enough, probably union officials. There really is an easy solution, the next time you buy your happy meal or check out at Walmart reach in to your pocket and give the cashier a 10 dollar bill. Tell them to divide the money up among other employees to help with their cost of living.

This would make you proactive instead of waiting for government or corporations to create a livable wage for employees. This solves both sides of the argument, they get what they deserve, and the customer, you, get to pay for. If everyone does this, money will flow freely into the pockets of employees everywhere and the problem is solved.

Of course it will get interesting when the store video is watched to see who spread the 10 dollar bill around, and how many claimed the money on their taxes.

Have you seen how much profit Walmart make?

Walmart Profit

They rake in that profit by paying terrible terrible wages, which everyone complains is subsidised by the government, but when it is in fact YOU, ME and everyone else who pay taxes is actually paying for. Walmart could pay everyone a living wage without any issues at all and still rake in billions, but no they are the worst of humanity, the obsesive greed that drives people in the dirt so they can have a few more dollars that they will never even spend because they have too much already.

It is the greed of these companies that force you to pay higher taxes, don't blame people for wanting to be able to pay their rent and eat after working all week for it, what they ask for is not outragous, they are not asking for executive pay, they just want to be able to live, there is hardly any local employment, all teh small companies have been driven down into the dirt by these corporations, they suck everything, destroy everything, kill local compaines reducing jobs, then pay crap wages and ask for you and me to supplement it.

Time for people like you to wake the hell up, the vast majority of people are held in wage slavery and it has to stop

nvm

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: MarlinGrace
All those who complain about the poor wages can then feel good that they are providing for people that cannot provide for themselves.

The fact that people are working for a multi-billion corporate and cannot provide for themselves doesn't even faze you?

It is THOSE EXACT people who *generate* the wealth for Walmart. It would therefore also be Walmart's obligation to make sure those people can life a halfway decent life from their pay, otherwise it's simply just a modern form of slavery.

The idea of making a charity that is supposed to be compensating for Walmart's greed and low pay is hideous, it's basically only supporting that corporates can and should continue to exploit their people while any problem arising from it is thrown at anyone else, BUT the one responsible for it. WHY? What is your logic there?

Is your logic there simply that you think this is a real "brilliant" solution because YOU know already you will never pay to this charity (since you yourself think the walmart pay is "ok")..but you can simply sit back in your chair and proclaim that ANYONE ELSE who has a problem with the low wage can well go to the charity and donate their money? (Something which doesn't have to faze you since you already know you personally will never pay to this charity). IF YES, then this is an idea simply borne from your own greed.

originally posted by: seabag
a reply to: g146541

I think the video cleverly illustrates a point that many overlook, especially those who support higher wages for entry level positions…and that point is…the 'extra money' to pay these wages comes from somewhere, and it CERTAINLY won’t be from the pockets of the fat cats on the Board of Directors. NOPE!!! It will be added to the cost of goods and we’ll all pay it!

We're already paying for the low salary structure at Walmart. Walmart employees are subsidized billions of dollars by the government because they're not earning a decent wage.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

This doesn't solve anything. This is just enabling these corporations to continue to pay their employees low wages.

Also, when the store camera is reviewed, the employee will probably be fired for stealing when they see him pocket a ten dollar bill. Unless the store specifically has a tipping policy, any money given to the employees is the property of the company...not the employee.

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

Is your logic there simply that you think this is a real "brilliant" solution because YOU know already you will never pay to this charity (since you yourself think the walmart pay is "ok")..but you can simply sit back in your chair and proclaim that ANYONE ELSE who has a problem with the low wage can well go to the charity and donate their money? (Something which doesn't have to faze you since you already know you personally will never pay to this charity). IF YES, then this is an idea simply borne from your own greed.

Would you provide for this charity? You're quick to assume on my part, but you never said what you would do.