The Coming Caliphate who will it Love?

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Well, that explains a lot. I'm debating with myself whether to send you a U2U on the matter, and will continue to debate it while I catch up on the thread, at which point I will likely have made a decision.

We may not be as far apart as one would first assume, other than our opinions being colored by having seen different things out of life... but I stand by my "enemies" listing.

I have reason for that, and that reason is nigh onto unbelievable, hence my quandary with sending the U2U or not.

I stand by you decsion as well , your 100% correct they are enemies of Islam and the world..

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I happen to be salafi

I suppose that explains it all then.

en.wikipedia.org...

since you like wiki and all...

Everybody needs to chill out.

The reality is that Islam is going through somewhat of a reformation just as Christianity did in the 19th and 20 the century.

That along with political issues in the Mideast that have to do with Israel and stupid arrogant extremist Arabs and Iranians who can’t seem to make peace with the US and Israel.

Understand that the vast majority of Muslims in Indonesia, Malaysia, Bangladesh, North Africa (Pakistan has issues relative to this though) and Turkey live pretty decent ordinary lives...remember there are almost 2 billion Muslims in the world.

Now this present issue is overblown for a lot of reasons but think about it… we are going through all of this over 12, 000 at most nutty militants running around Iraq with rags on their faces, machine guns and dump trucks yelling Allahu Akbar

It would be easy for the UN just to put a force in Iraq and take out these nuts in a couple of weeks.

But some hidden hand wants this turbulence.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere So you feel that sharia law is ok in muslim land? Who will be the one to say what land is muslim or the one to stop muslim land from extending itself. Am i wrong by saying that sharia law is used in muslim lands to justify cutting of genitles and abuse of women along with beheadings and you are ok with that?

lol christians and jews are protected by sharia law.

Why is that funny ?

Firstly: 

Da‘wah or calling him to Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. He should call him to Allah and explain to him the reality of Islam when possible, with regard to whatever issues he has knowledge about, because this is the greatest kindness that he can give to his fellow-citizens and to those whom he meets of Jews, Christians and others who may be mushrikeen (polytheists), because the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The one who guides others to goodness will have a reward like that of the one who does it.” And he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said to ‘Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), when he sent him to Khaybar and instructed him to call the Jews to Islam: “By Allah, if Allah were to guide one man through you, that would be better for you than having red camels (the best kind).” And he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever calls others to right guidance will have a reward like that of those who follow him, without that detracting from their reward in the slightest.” 

So calling him (the non-Muslim) to Islam, conveying Islam to him and being sincere towards him in that are among the best means of drawing close to Allah. 

Secondly:  

He should not wrong him, with regard to his physical wellbeing, his wealth or his honour. If he is a dhimmi (non-Muslim living under Muslim rule), musta’man (one who is granted

Secondly:  

He should not wrong him, with regard to his physical wellbeing, his wealth or his honour. If he is a dhimmi (non-Muslim living under Muslim rule), musta’man (one who is granted security in a Muslim land) or mu‘aahid (one with whose country the Muslims have a peace deal), then he should give him his due rights, and not transgress against his wealth by stealing, betraying or deceiving, and he should not harm him physically by striking or killing him, because the fact that he is a mu‘aahid or dhimmi, or musta’man, means that he is protected by sharee‘ah. 

Thirdly: 

There is no reason why we should not interact with him, buying, selling, renting, hiring and so on. It is narrated in saheeh reports that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) bought from kuffaar who were idol worshippers, and he bought from the Jews, and these are interactions. When he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) died, his shield was being held in pledge by a Jew for some food he had bought for his family (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)

The Coming Caliphate who will it Love?


The word is two blurred/overlapping words.... 'Calip(h)' with the F sound ...and the 2nd word 'Hate' which is a distinctive pronunciation behind the 'CaliF' sound.....

[Calif - Hate] is the phonetic signature, at least to the general American=English speakers I know


[Cali - Fate] is another way of saying the word, but with a definite PC slant so as not to bias the listener

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

I happen to be salafi

I suppose that explains it all then.

en.wikipedia.org...

since you like wiki and all...

Yeah wiki gives a terrible explanation and equates whabisim to salafi.

Here's a better explanation.

Praise be to Allaah.
The Salafis are the followers of the way of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his Companions, because they are the ones who came before us (the Salaf) and who advanced ahead of us, so their followers are the Salafis. 

With regard to taking Salafiyyah as a path or methodology which a person follows and regards as misguided those Muslims who differ with him, even if they are following the truth, and taking Salafiyyah as a partisan path is undoubtedly contrary to Salafiyyah. All of the Salaf or early generations called for unity and harmony around the Sunnah of the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and did not regard as misguided those who differed with them with on the basis of their understanding and interpretation, except when it came to matters of ‘aqeedah or beliefs, because they regarded those who differed with them in these matters as misguided. But with regard to practical issues they were often easy-going. 

But some of those who followed the path of Salafiyyah in modern times started to regard as misguided everyone who differed from them, even if that person was correct, and some of them adopted a partisan approach like that of other parties which claimed to belong to the religion of Islam. This is something that is to be denounced and cannot be approved of, and it should be said to these people: Look at the way of the righteous early generation (al-salaf al-saalih), what did they used to do? Look at their way and how open hearted they were in the case of differences in which ijtihaad is justified (and differences of opinion are allowed). They even used to differ concerning major issues, matters of belief and practical issues. You will find some of them, for example, denying that the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) saw his Lord, whereas others say that he did see Him. You will see some of them saying that what will be weighed on the Day of Resurrection is deeds, whereas others will say that it is the books of deeds that will be weighed. You will also see them differing a great deal with regard to matters of fiqh having to do with marriage, shares of inheritance, buying and selling, and other issues. Yet despite all that they did not regard one another as misguided. 

Salafiyyah in the sense of being a particular party with its distinguishing characteristics and in which the members regard everyone else as misguided, these people have nothing to do with Salafiyyah at all. As for the Salafiyyah which means following the path of the Salaf in belief, word and deed, in calling for unity and harmony and mutual compassion and love, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The likeness of the believers in their mutual love, mercy and compassion is that of a single body; when one part of it is suffering the rest of the body joins it in fever and staying awake” -- this is the true Salafiyyah. End quote. 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him). 

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

You have only to look at ISIS in Iraq to see what a puritanical and literal shari'a looks like, and then ask the Muslims if they want this in their countries...

Link to Shari'a enacted by puritanical literal interpretations of Islam

a reply to: Willtell You are right about the hidden hand keeping anyone from putting a stop to it. It seems as though not only is the us allowing this to happen but when 30000 troops just lay down their uniforms and walk away then they were probaly just waiting for that moment and had planned this. These fighters have gained much high tec weaponery in a way that from a management standpoint looks to be like purposfully ingoring the stockpiles for someone to come along and take. That brings to the point of the op and that is the caliphate is being born with help in the name of allah. That same group would not stop killing until someone comes along and makes them believe he is the messiah. That is what you all want right? The messiah to return and it will take bloodshed to get him here? i ask to give everyone a chance to dispell the common beliefs about muslims.

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere you ignored the substance of my post but that seems to be the way you get by.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

You have only to look at ISIS in Iraq to see what a puritanical and literal shari'a looks like, and then ask the Muslims if they want this in their countries...

Link to Shari'a enacted by puritanical literal interpretations of Islam

Their form of sharia is riddiled with innovation ...

If their ideology about the sunna is whacked out already do you think their understanding of sharia law is going to be different?

Who would want to live under that ? Not I not you and not most of the umma.

So what's your point here?

a reply to: deadeyedick

Many commentators say that the Iraqi generals were likely bribed.

Actually all this Mahdi and Messiah talk is based on a few hadiths that aren’t at all universally accepted
These are old traditions that aren’t really clear. Muslim theologians dont agree at all about this.

The Quran has only one verse that talks about some figure coming in the future

27: 82

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Look at egypt to see the salafi's.

www.reuters.com...

The reason they wanted Morsi ousted was because his implementation of Sharia in Egypt was too lenient for their tastes.

Salafis said they will not water down their views to ally with the more moderate Muslim Brotherhood, after a first-round vote put the two rival groups on track to dominate parliament.

The army is in charge for now but the election, the first since Hosni Mubarak was ousted in February, will give the new parliament a strong claim to a role in how Egypt is governed.

The Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's best-organized political force, which was banned but partly tolerated under Mubarak, is on course to win the election. The Salafis, who follow an even stricter interpretation of Islam, have emerged from the margins to push liberals into third place.

Many of the Taliban are also followers of Salafism, they were born from the salafi teachings in pakistan.


yes... I'm sure your right... salafism is good... it's everything else that is bad....bidah bidah bidah..

I'm out... I'll leave you to explain how your puritanical literal Islam is the "right" one and how everyone else is wrong and introduces bidah into the ummah.

You will have to excuse me, as crap makes me sick.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere So you feel that sharia law is ok in muslim land? Who will be the one to say what land is muslim or the one to stop muslim land from extending itself. Am i wrong by saying that sharia law is used in muslim lands to justify cutting of genitles and abuse of women along with beheadings and you are ok with that?

lol christians and jews are protected by sharia law.

Ill use this posters definition of sharia law , hes for the most part correct.

This Shariah obsession is overblown

Shariah Law is the same thing as the rules and laws of other religions such as in Christianity (Canon Law) and Judaism. They have religious laws but use another term.

Shariah is only a word that means path or way.

In esoteric Islam they have Shariah (outward path) and Tariqah (inward path)



Religious law refers to ethical and moral codes taught by religious traditions. Examples include Christian canon law, Islamic sharia, Jewish halakha and Hindu law.[1] The two most prominent systems, canon law and sharia, differ from other religious laws in that canon law is the codification of Catholic, Anglican and Orthodox law as in civil law, while sharia derives many of its laws from juristic precedent and reasoning by analogy (as in a common law tradition). en.wikipedia.org...

Am I OK with sharia law in Muslim lands 100% and I fully believe that Muslims who try to establish sharia law in other countries are completely WRONG. If they want to live by sharia law they need to go to a country that supports it.

Am I OK with genital mutilation? Never heard about it until you pointed it out.
(Please don't link me I'll research it my self)

Am I OK with beheadings , personally I find it disgusting..
And I take no part in it. Are you OK with the executions in the USA?
An execution is an execution regardless of how its carried out.

Salafi and Wahhabis are modern creations from some 18th century Saudi Arabian religious fanatic named Abdul-Wahhab, who joined up with the Saudis.

Its extreme conservative Islam. Intolerant and imo distorted. It’s all from Saudi Arabia, this modern monstrosity.

It is the cause of all this nutty crazy extreme Islam of today. en.wikipedia.org...


This group has defamed Islam, imo, and given it its bad reputation

These entire nutty terrorist are from this sect
Including the Taliban, all those nuts in Pakistan, ISIL Al Qaeda

ALL WAHHABI SALAFI

I'm ok with the will of the people in the u.s. If my church was in charge of the people by law then you could make that comparision.

a reply to: OpinionatedB


These groups claim to be salafi but their
Methodology is screwd up !

People like you don't understand that their is two types of salafi ..

Example: sunni ISIS , they claim to be "sunni" but its obvious by their ideology and actions they are NOT!

Same applies to salafi.

Again your trying to group us all together essentially saying I am in bed with the taliban...

Nay ! They are way of the path of salafi.

Well what will it be a sugar coated turd,a turd with chocolate sprinkes or a turd with hundreds and thousands would we like the stone age,the dark ages or the middle ages.There has not been a positive theocracy in the history of this planet not even a Buddhist one surely the people of this region can aspire to better in the 21st Century.

originally posted by: Willtell
Salafi and Wahhabis are modern creations from some 18th century Saudi Arabian religious fanatic named Abdul-Wahhab, who joined up with the Saudis.

Its extreme conservative Islam. Intolerant and imo distorted. It’s all from Saudi Arabia, this modern monstrosity.

It is the cause of all this nutty crazy extreme Islam of today. en.wikipedia.org...


This group has defamed Islam, imo, and given it its bad reputation

These entire nutty terrorist are from this sect
Including the Taliban, all those nuts in Pakistan, ISIL Al Qaeda

ALL WAHHABI SALAFI

That is Wikipedia's version of salafi
It's not correct.....

Here is a more accurate understanding.

the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his Companions
We want to know what Salafiyyah is as a manhaj (path or methodology), and can we claim to belong to it? Can we criticise those who do not belong to it or who object to the word Salafi and so on?.
Praise be to Allaah.
The Salafis are the followers of the way of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and his Companions, because they are the ones who came before us (the Salaf) and who advanced ahead of us, so their followers are the Salafis. 

With regard to taking Salafiyyah as a path or methodology which a person follows and regards as misguided those Muslims who differ with him, even if they are following the truth, and taking Salafiyyah as a partisan path is undoubtedly contrary to Salafiyyah. All of the Salaf or early generations called for unity and harmony around the Sunnah of the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and did not regard as misguided those who differed with them with on the basis of their understanding and interpretation, except when it came to matters of ‘aqeedah or beliefs, because they regarded those who differed with them in these matters as misguided. But with regard to practical issues they were often easy-going. 

But some of those who followed the path of Salafiyyah in modern times started to regard as misguided everyone who differed from them, even if that person was correct, and some of them adopted a partisan approach like that of other parties which claimed to belong to the religion of Islam. This is something that is to be denounced and cannot be approved of, and it should be said to these people: Look at the way of the righteous early generation (al-salaf al-saalih), what did they used to do? Look at their way and how open hearted they were in the case of differences in which ijtihaad is justified (and differences of opinion are allowed). They even used to differ concerning major issues, matters of belief and practical issues. You will find some of them, for example, denying that the Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) saw his Lord, whereas others say that he did see Him. You will see some of them saying that what will be weighed on the Day of Resurrection is deeds, whereas others will say that it is the books of deeds that will be weighed. You will also see them differing a great deal with regard to matters of fiqh having to do with marriage, shares of inheritance, buying and selling, and other issues. Yet despite all that they did not regard one another as misguided. 

Salafiyyah in the sense of being a particular party with its distinguishing characteristics and in which the members regard everyone else as misguided, these people have nothing to do with Salafiyyah at all. As for the Salafiyyah which means following the path of the Salaf in belief, word and deed, in calling for unity and harmony and mutual compassion and love, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The likeness of the believers in their mutual love, mercy and compassion is that of a single body; when one part of it is suffering the rest of the body joins it in fever and staying awake” -- this is the true Salafiyyah. End quote. 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allah have mercy on him). 

In that same wiki link it claims Dr.zikr Naik is a salafist.

This is completely untrue

a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

Maybe there are some Salafi that aren’t intolerant religious bigots, fine and dandy I’m glad.
Butt the ones I have known and the morons who have ruined the reputation of Islam from the Mideast are the most prominent.

The ones who destroy Sufi and Buddhist shrines, murder people who don’t believe what they believe, stone people, distort the concept of Jihad, disrespect other faiths, love only other Muslims...the essence of what these religious bigots espouse are the ones who have shown their ugly face to the world and the ones who are the worst exemplars of Islam the world has ever known....And have done more harm to the reputation of the religion than the devil himself.

a reply to: ketsuko

Why is it so difficult to understand? Think of the culture. The ME is slow to change and often things are tolerated - to a degree - long before they accepted culturally.

In these cultures, the taste of liberty is enjoyed privately, behind closed doors, well before it is accepted by society at large. That doesn't mean it's not there, just tightly managed. It may take several generations or so to be culturally accepted but it's not going away, it can't be undone.

And it's benevolent dictators that help to bridge the gap - they are like the edge of a knife....a delicate, deadly balance between old an new.