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Racial Profiling

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posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:15 PM
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OK, I'm about to open a can of worms here. Racial profiling. Pro or Con? In our paranoia right now with terrorism, and the fear of an impending attack on US soil, wouldn't it make sense to racial profile?

Not go overboard and harrass, that's not what I'm advocating here.


It would be pretty much agreed that people of "Middle Eastern Descent" to date have made up the great majority of those threatening to do these things to the USA. We've all read by now that there are "sleeper cells" in the US - some having lived here for 10+ years, having children and working along side us - all the while investigating, scoping out potential targets and the like. What are your thoughts on this touchy subject?




posted on Dec, 1 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Totally 100% pro. Love it or hate it, it works sometimes. I read a story eons ago (dont ask me to produce it, couldnt) about some southern police station targeting certain cars that sported a certain radio stations bumper stickers. The arrest rate for those stops was something like 70%. I.e. it worked. Is it constitutional? Not really. But it was very effective.

Now lets talk race. Its a simple fact that the vast majority of terrorist attacks/attempts/plans against the USA today are from people of Arabic/middle eastern descent. So, if we assume that statistic is true, then it would be suicide not to pay more attention to people of Arabic features who are in positions to do the US harm.

I am 100% for profiling of any kind. I will state that it needs to be conducted in an intelligent, proffesional manner though. And I will admit it can be dangerous if handled incorrectly. If an innocent person is the subject of profiling, and they are truly innocent, then in the end they should have nothing to be worried about. If they are legitimate, law abiding people then they should also undertsand that these things may be neccessary to help protect the general populace.

Heck, I am an Italian/French mix. If I was walking down the street and a cop draws a gun on me because I fit the description of somebody they are looking for regarding a serious crime, I cant get angry. I may be upset at the inconvenience. but so long as I am truly innocent thats all it will end up. Inconvenient.

Instead of coming down on anti crime/terrorist techniques, maybe people should be more anti crime/terrorism itelf...



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:33 AM
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Such a hot topic, everybody staying away from this? Im suprised there arent more replies to this topic



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:36 AM
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I agree with racial profiling. Most of the terrorist acts around the world have had Middle Eastern Men (and now women) commintting the acts. Not just here in the US, but in Russia, Europe, Britian, etc.....



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:44 AM
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I am totally against racial profiling it goes against the charter of rights and freedoms which most Americans hold so dear. For more information please see:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sure it works sometimes, but so do random checks.

Lukefj



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:06 AM
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Seriously, don't you think if there were terrorists in your country that were capable of launching an attack they would have done it by now?

3 years since 9/11 and nothing? Doesn't this seem strange to anyone but me?



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:10 AM
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Racial Profiling is based on Assumptions. Assumptions are based on Sterotypes. Sterotypes are based on Ignorance. Deny Ignorance. Deny Racial Profiling

I initially typed two lengthy paragraphs about this thread but I think the above sums it up.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:22 AM
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Read this:

www.city-journal.org...

Dont be fooled by the title, its a well written article speaking to both sides.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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Racial profiling is nothing new in American even before 9/11 we had it.

Racial profiling includes race, ethnicity, national origin, or religion, it falls in these categories the law will come to the help and criminal investigation is performed. Minorities in this country have experienced this problem first hand.

Before the 9/11 we used to hear the profiling by polices with drivers. Then after 9/11 the profiling is now more directed to race of certain groups like middle easterners in the US. Because so many complain of instances of abuse, the Department of Justice created guidelines on the use of race on law enforcement.

Racial profiling is unconstitutional under the The 14 amendment only if you are a rightful citizen of the US.

Occurs we have to take care of keeping and eye on suspicious behavior but we cannot tell when they are real or just our imagination when the person we are watching does look like from the middle east is something hard to understand.We can not allowed fear to take over our senses.

One thing is to exercise our sense of duty to our nation and another one be so fearfull fo any body that is not like us or that fill the profile of what we are afraid off to take over our jugdment.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by marg6043]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:39 AM
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Was'nt the Oaklahoma city bombing done by a white man. Was'nt the Una Bomber a white man and the DC sniper a black man. If you people agree with racial profiling of middle eastern people then you should also agree that racial profiling of white and black americans is also justified.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 08:58 AM
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Nobody is disputing that Killak. For instance Serial killers are primarily white men. The argument here is the profiling itself, not necessarily which races are profiled, even though people of Arabic dissent have been mentioned here.

Lets say for a moment that HISTORICALLY, i.e. actual cases, of a particular crime in a particular area are primarily committed by race X. Ill repeat, its historical data based on actual crimes committed. Is it wrong to pay more attention in that area to race X in regards to that crime?

If you were watching a roulette wheel and after an hour noticed that red comes up as a winner 75% of the time, would it be wrong to bet red? Wouldnt you be disserviceing yourself by betting anything other than red? Now, of course red loses from time to time (25% in this example), but it would be silly to spend much of your betting money on another color.

I hate to put such a simple analogy on this, but if the odds say one thing, you need to go with the odds.

Now, not all crimes are committed by any one race. But some are in some area's. I think if the % of crime historically shows that a particular race is the primary offender, profiling should be permitted.


[edit on 2-12-2004 by skippytjc]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 09:01 AM
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Profiling of serial killers etc, I agree with.

Racial profiling is a bad route to go down and will never work. All it will lead to is injustices.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:28 AM
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I'm against racial profiling, but I'm sure that the departments and organizations responsible for the prevention of terrorist attacks use it already.
Certainly, it wouldnt help the image of the US if this was a high-profile public method...
(If by racial profiling you mean collecting information about arab and/or middle eastern immigrants or visitors who are followers of Islam.)

Btw, it would be worth the research to know how many of the arrested terrorist-suspects were actually convicted. And also, how many were released shortly after they were put in prison. I've heard some "funny" stories about how desperately they tried to sentence some innocent arabs, just to release them after a few months becouse the evidence was faulty...



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:45 AM
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When you use racial profiling, you begin to set up margins of possibility....2% of this race are likely to do this, 5% of this race are likely to not do this...Then more attention - either purposly or not - begins to be paid to those of "high-risk"

Does that mean that other races are not being as carefully watched? Chances are - Yes....What does this lead to? An influx in preciesly the opposite of what they thought would happen....Other lower priority races play flip-flop and prove that racial profiling has no effect whatsoever on determining and reducing terrorism....

I thought we got past assuming what someone is like based on the color of their skin....As an anthropologist, I'll tell you what's more important to look at...CULTURE....and it's affects on individuals....I may be white, But what if I come from a family with a history secret militia involvment and bi-polar disorder......I'm probablly of more concern to you than an Arab man who teaches at a university and is an upstanding citizen, but that Arab man is the one who is going to be stopped in the security check b/c of his skin color, while I walk on by him.....

I dunno - something to chew on....

[edit on 12/2/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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There is no such thing as "racial" profiling. There is criminal profiling of which "race" may play a role. The term "racial profiling" is something assigned by the ACLU to get the very response they got from the liberal media. A "buzz" word with negative implications. I am for criminal profiling period.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:30 PM
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EnronOutrunHomerun,

You mention Culture. Well of course that has more to do with it than race. And im certain that plays a big part in the way profiling is conducted. But if you are analizing an area where the population is very high in one race or another, then culture may get pushed aside as the race would stand out the most.

Does crime happen in primarily white area's? Of course. It wouldnt take rocket science to see that the crime would most ofetn be committed by a white person. Profiling isnt something that can be applied to all situations. It would be a waste of time in that instance to try to profile based on skin color.

Now if we are talking about a racially diverse community and actual history dictates that race X has committed the most of a certain crime then you would be a very bad investigator not to profile to a degree.

Now as a previous poster has mentioned, it can flip flop. If you rely 100% of a profile all the time and start overlooking other possibilities you open yourself up to other people less focused on, to committ the crime.

I think profiling is a very usefull tool. But its just that, a tool. And hopefully, one of many being used. If the tool your using isnt doing the job, use another one...



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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Im totally for it.

Do you honestly think the security forces would search black guys if the KKK was threatening to blow up half the world? How about if they fingerprinted women in the search for a rapist. The overly PC attitute makes me sick and would cost lives.

Just imagine what would happn if 3000 people were killed because an Arab couldnt be searched because the customs had to search X amount of white people per plane.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:36 PM
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What is racial profiling? The most common example of police racial profiling is "DWB", otherwise known as "driving while black".

This refers to the practice of police targeting African Americans for traffic stops because they believe that African Americans are more likely to be engaged in criminal activity.

Due to the fact that stopping motorist to search for illegal substance and get "lucky" was affecting the black comunity more than any other race, so that is how racial profiling became to be, at the end it was just easier to stop blacks and get a faster result.

Now the tactics has spread after the 9/11 to target people of middle eastern profile, funny how the term "racial profiling" started.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by skippytjc
You mention Culture. Well of course that has more to do with it than race. And im certain that plays a big part in the way profiling is conducted. But if you are analizing an area where the population is very high in one race or another, then culture may get pushed aside as the race would stand out the most.

Even then though...Every "race" has a sub-race....You can lump a bunch of "Hispanics" together, but those of you who have lived in the south know that there's a huge conflict when you accidentally call someone a Puerto Rican when they're really Mexican, etc...

Why? B/c they see these differences as key cultutre divisions, but yet are still lumped together into "Latino" or "Hispanic", the elements that make up their identity are lost and blended into a pot they may not necessarily belong in....

But still we lump - He's light-skinned...He lives in this neighborhood....he's this likely to murder so and so....

The fact that skin tone is the primary factor for zoning in on a group of people is faulty b/c it doesn't take into consideration the environment from which they were molded....


[edit on 12/2/2004 by EnronOutrunHomerun]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 01:53 PM
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I wont deny profiling of ANY kind is risky and definatly on the edge of political correctness. But the cold hard fact is it can work if used right. Criminal profiling has been around for years and is quite successfull.

I mentioned in my first response to this thread about that police department down south that pulled over ALL cars that had a certain radio stations stickers on it. THEY HAD A 70% ARREST RATE!!! You simply cannot deny those types of successes. That police dept got into trouble over it too. Now, 30% of those pulled over using this profile were completely innocent. And im quite certain those 30% were at the very least inconvienienced.

But I call a 70% arrest rate worth the 30% inconvenience to some. Of course this is a prime example of successfull profiling for sure.

I think so long as we keep objective, prifiling of any kind should be used as a tool to stop crime.

Ill give another analogy (I know, im full of them)

Lets say you are a carpenter and cut alot of wood. All sorts of kinds of wood. Very very hard woods to very soft woods. And your favorite saw is great at cutting 80% of the types of wood you work with. But not very good at the other 20% and you use other saws for that. Now today you are about to cut a type of wood you have never cut before. Which saw would you try first? The one that cuts 80% of the wood perfectly? Or another saw that only cuts some woods well? A good carpenter would try his favorite 80% saw first. It may not work mind you, but odds are it will.

I guess the bottom line is Profiling can be an effective tool if used properly and responsibly. It can be a horrible thing if used in the wrong way.



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