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Children hopping death trains to get to the US for Obama's promised Amnesty

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posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: kruphix


Here's the problem...I don't see them as "Mexicans"...I don't see us as "Americans"...we are all people. None of us are better than the others


WRONG!!! I AM better then a drug smuggling murderer!

I am better then rapist.

I am better then losers

I am better then gangsters

Your whole argument is null and void!!

FACE PALM


I got to give you credit, I didn't think of that aspect. You are right--moral equivalency is nonsense. There are good and bad people out there.




posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Flatfish




If I'm not mistaken, when ask about those releases, ICE stated that it was due to budget cuts brought on by the government shutdown and subsequent sequester. Go figure!


The question is, when that happened why didn't ICE deport them immediately?



Because the left is counting on them becoming good Democratic voting people. That's the entire reason for this nonsense.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: seabag
a reply to: grandmakdw

Why doesn't the mainstream media care about these children by reporting this?
They don’t want to inflame their voter base of illegal immigrants.




Do you really think the Obama Administration has no responsibility for this situation as they claim?
Of course they are responsible. It is because of their policies and never ending promises that we have this problem. Any legit, rational, uncorrupt Commander in Chief would have closed the border on 9/12/01.




you say rational leader?....how "rational" is it to close off the entire Mexican border, and let's not forget the Canadian border. the Mexican border is 1,989 miles long...here's the government website that has the statistics you need for this task.
help.cbp.gov...
how many hundreds of thousands of personal would have to man this 24/7?, and where's the money going to come from?...how about a special tax from all the people that want this fence...and, by the way, Obama has deported more illegals than any other republican or democratic president...so, your flippant suggestion is devoid of any substance.


You should really look at that number in perspective. Here is an article that explains the record deportation number and what it means.

The Obama Administration's 2 Million Deportations, Explained


Based on the DHS data and a Bloomberg Businessweek report from late last year, the Obama administration has carried out roughly 1.8 million removals in his time in office through September 7, 2013. That's less than George W. Bush's overall total of slightly more than 2 million, but even conservative estimates of the number of deportations in fiscal year 2014 would have Obama crossing that mark right about now and on pace to crush it by the end of his presidency. (The number represents total removals, not the number of people removed; one person could be sent back to their country of origin several times.)





The effect of these escalating policies, among others, has created an environment in which it's easier for an immigrant to qualify for a removal versus a return, and easier for the government to choose that route, says Ben Winograd, an immigration attorney at the Immigrant & Refugee Appellate Center. "In terms of how immigration enforcement is carried out, it's really a crossing of the Rubicon," Winograd says.



The statistics, on their own, could be misleading, and some have said advocates like Murguia are simplifying the situation. It's important to note that many of the Obama administration's removals happen along the 100-mile border zone, and that interior deportations have dropped significantly during Obama's time in office.


Basically, while yes the deportation number is at an all time high, it is really due to increasing laws on the books as well as our increasing police and security measures in place. Not to mention, many of the deportees are repeat offenders so they get counted multiple times. So to pretend like Obama is SOLELY responsible for this record high number is just as silly as trying to pretend like Obama is solely responsible for the mess in Iraq.



posted on Jun, 24 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: starfoxxx

originally posted by: kruphix


Here's the problem...I don't see them as "Mexicans"...I don't see us as "Americans"...we are all people. None of us are better than the others


WRONG!!! I AM better then a drug smuggling murderer!

I am better then rapist.

I am better then losers

I am better then gangsters

Your whole argument is null and void!!

FACE PALM


I was specifically speaking of people not being better than others based on their country of origin.

It seemed pretty clear, because I specifically stated "AMERICANS" and "MEXICANS"...I never stated rapist or gang members.

Unless you are saying that you think all Mexicans are rapist, losers or gang members and Americans aren't. (see, I can take your words out of context too).



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 08:27 AM
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Take a look at Krazyshot's replies. When the majority of comments are against you, flaming back loses respect from the community at ATS. Krazyshot may not have people who agree with him, including myself, but I respect and admire his responses, they are superb examples of how to attempt to change minds on ATS.

On ATS I think Krazyshot's reply is a fantastic example where you will earn respect and perhaps change minds. .

Krazyshot, I applaud you, I disagree with you about Obama's responsibility for the situation, after 6 years as president and all his pushing of amnesty and public calls for it, he and his administration are responsible, but we disagree, so what, I can still admire your calm and reasoned responses while disagreeing.
edit on 25-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: because



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Flatfish



If I'm not mistaken, when ask about those releases, ICE stated that it was due to budget cuts brought on by the government shutdown and subsequent sequester. Go figure!

While the Republicans were busy reciting Green Eggs & Ham in the halls of Congress, budgets were being cut causing easily foreseen consequences. What the GOP should be asking themselves is; "Did I do that?" and as was true most of the time when Erkyl ask the same question, the answer would be a resounding YES!


OMG - I just saw a news article where the White House it taking this strategy. Blaming the Republicans.

Of course, the American people are sick of the White House ALWAYS shifting the blame to anyone but themselves.

Obama's motto should be: The blame stops THERE (with a middle finger pointed at a picture of Bush)
That is how he behaves!

Ok, this is an unreasoned response but I was floored that they either got the idea from this forum or tested it here.


Anyway HURT wrote a piece that expresses how I feel on the matter:

Of course, Mr. Obama did not issue a formal edict inviting each of the tens of thousands of children pouring over the border from Mexico. He didn’t have to.

His executive action legalizing underage illegals in the U.S. was all the invitation they needed. And come they did.

At this hot pace, we will have more than a quarter-million orphaned children on the border by the end of next year — each and every one the sole responsibility of Mr. Obama.

Actions have consequences, Mr. President. And executive actions have executive consequences. You are personally responsible for the harrowing condition of every one of these children. You are personally responsible for ripping apart every single one of these families.

Mr. Obama and congressional Democrats have pursued amnesty for illegals hoping for millions of indentured voters — poor new Americans they believe will feel obligated to vote for Democrats for decades to come. Yes, a sick political gambit. But the underlying immigration and foreign policies will be devastating.

Under this kind of open-borders lunacy, America’s immigration policy is no longer about what is best for America and Americans.

Under Mr. Obama, America’s immigration policy is about what is best for everybody in the world — except America.

This posture turns the Bush-Cheney foreign doctrine completely on its head. Their philosophy was that the U.S. should fight terrorists abroad so that we don’t have to fight them on American soil. The Nobel Prize-winning Obama-Biden foreign policy is to just take the absolute worst problems from all around the world and bring them here. We can’t handle them either, but let’s just make them our problem.

And what is so amazing about it is that the very people who are hurt the worst under this policy are the various factions of the Democratic Party that put Mr. Obama and his political allies in power in the first place. Countless studies have shown that such a mass influx of poor workers will hurt mainly blacks, unions, other Hispanics and the working poor. Pretty much the only ones to benefit from amnesty will be business owners and big corporations hungry for cheap labor. Efforts to sweep the problem under the rug have blown up in the administration’s face.
www.washingtontimes.com...
edit on 25-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: addition



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Thank you for the compliment. It's a shame that many people resort to partisan or emotional bickering to try to get their point across. C'est la vie.

Though you may have misunderstood my point slightly. I was just trying to show that the record number of deportations that people always go on about Obama having isn't his sole responsibility. Actually, I believe, that if it wasn't for all the increased security and laws on the books, Obama would have the lowest number of deportations. I would like to point out that despite what Republicans like to yell about, at least Obama is following the law in this regard with all the deportations. He's probably not happy about it though.

As far as the issue in the OP, I lay this solely at Obama's feet. All those children jumping the border as they are doing now wouldn't be doing this under Bush's presidency because he wouldn't have stood for it. Nor would he be trying to push some sort of immigration reform to get these people's hopes up. If Obama wasn't so damned focused on circumventing Congress, maybe this issue wouldn't have arisen either. When Obama does these things, he gives the illusion that he has more power than he really does, so people think he is doing more than what is actually being done. It's all a deception and it's immoral.

One more thing. This immigration issue is closely tied to the cartel and war on drugs issue. Politicians try to keep these two topics separate, but one of the MAJOR reasons these people are crossing the border is to get away from the cartels and all the violence. In this regard, I don't blame these people. I'd be fleeing that country too if I lived there under those conditions. If politicians want to stem the flow of illegals over the border, they need to do something about the cartels. Arresting or killing the leaders isn't going to change anything (some new asshole will just step in that person's place). The best way to fight the cartels is to hit their pocketbook. Their major source of income is drug money from the US. I understand that legalizing even all the drugs won't make the cartels go away completely, but it WILL severely cripple their finances and make it tougher for them to fight back and do the s# they do. Also to anyone who says that they will attack dispensaries, that is straight up BS. The mafia didn't attack breweries when Prohibition ended. It would have been a losing battle anyways, since with legalization comes protection of the law.

That is my opinion on this matter. One more thing before I go. Politicians keeping these two issues separate shows that they have no true desire to fix this mess, just lip service and pandering to increase their voting base. Both political parties should be for at the least ending the cartels and at the most legalizing drugs. It's very telling that that isn't the case.



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: jimmyx



you say rational leader?....how "rational" is it to close off the entire Mexican border, and let's not forget the Canadian border. the Mexican border is 1,989 miles long...here's the government website that has the statistics you need for this task.
help.cbp.gov...
how many hundreds of thousands of personal would have to man this 24/7?, and where's the money going to come from?...how about a special tax from all the people that want this fence...


How about we start here:

U.S. Senator Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-OK), ranking member of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, today released his annual oversight report “Wastebook 2013” highlighting 100 examples of wasteful and low-priority spending totaling nearly $30 billion.
link



and, by the way, Obama has deported more illegals than any other republican or democratic president...so, your flippant suggestion is devoid of any substance.

He has deported more. However, his policies invite more illegal’s than ever before!!

Before the current surge, the Border Patrol was apprehending about 20,000 unaccompanied children trying to cross the border every year. That number doubled across 2012 and 2013, as President Obama was halting deportations of illegal immigrants who had arrived as minors, and it is projected to more than triple in the current fiscal year.
link



posted on Jun, 25 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: grandmakdw
a reply to: Flatfish



If I'm not mistaken, when ask about those releases, ICE stated that it was due to budget cuts brought on by the government shutdown and subsequent sequester. Go figure!

While the Republicans were busy reciting Green Eggs & Ham in the halls of Congress, budgets were being cut causing easily foreseen consequences. What the GOP should be asking themselves is; "Did I do that?" and as was true most of the time when Erkyl ask the same question, the answer would be a resounding YES!


OMG - I just saw a news article where the White House it taking this strategy. Blaming the Republicans.

Of course, the American people are sick of the White House ALWAYS shifting the blame to anyone but themselves.

Obama's motto should be: The blame stops THERE (with a middle finger pointed at a picture of Bush)
That is how he behaves!

Ok, this is an unreasoned response but I was floored that they either got the idea from this forum or tested it here.


Or maybe, they're going down that path because it's the truth. If yourself and other right-wingers here on ATS weren't so driven by your hatred for Obama, you might be able to recognize that fact.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
Anyway HURT wrote a piece that expresses how I feel on the matter:

Of course, Mr. Obama did not issue a formal edict inviting each of the tens of thousands of children pouring over the border from Mexico. He didn’t have to.


Hell no he didn't have to because right-wing media sources like Fox News and Breitbart were chomping at the bit to do that for him. Propagating disinformation is what they do for a living and this time it's coming back to bite them in the ass.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
His executive action legalizing underage illegals in the U.S. was all the invitation they needed. And come they did.

At this hot pace, we will have more than a quarter-million orphaned children on the border by the end of next year — each and every one the sole responsibility of Mr. Obama.


What "executive action legalizing underage illegals" are you talking about? Please show me the EO that contains that wording, I'd love to see it.

This is what Fox News, Breitbart and people like yourself have been propagating despite the fact that it couldn't be further from the truth. President Obama never signed an EO offering "legalization" and/or "amnesty" to underage illegals, those words come straight from right-wing media news sources.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
Actions have consequences, Mr. President. And executive actions have executive consequences. You are personally responsible for the harrowing condition of every one of these children. You are personally responsible for ripping apart every single one of these families.

Mr. Obama and congressional Democrats have pursued amnesty for illegals hoping for millions of indentured voters — poor new Americans they believe will feel obligated to vote for Democrats for decades to come. Yes, a sick political gambit. But the underlying immigration and foreign policies will be devastating.


The word "AMNESTY" when connected to U.S. immigration policy is nothing more than the rallying cry used by right-wing media sources as fodder for their minions.

The Obama administration never offered "amnesty" to anyone. What he did was to postpone deportation proceedings on undocumented immigrants who would qualify as "dreamers" under the proposed "Dream Act." Just take a look at what it takes to qualify as a "dreamer" and you'd know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the EO issued by the POTUS was anything but blanket amnesty for underage illegals.

Of course, right-wing media won't let a little thing like facts get in the way of their non-stop propaganda campaign and if anything, it's that constant feed of disinformation that is responsible for the current crisis. Talk about not taking responsibility for your actions, PLEASE!!!!

I don't think you can provide one instance where President Obama offered "amnesty" to any illegals, or even used the word "amnesty" anywhere in his EO. Those words were carefully chosen and utilized by right-wing media sources and yes, they do have consequences.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
Under this kind of open-borders lunacy, America’s immigration policy is no longer about what is best for America and Americans.

Under Mr. Obama, America’s immigration policy is about what is best for everybody in the world — except America.

This posture turns the Bush-Cheney foreign doctrine completely on its head. Their philosophy was that the U.S. should fight terrorists abroad so that we don’t have to fight them on American soil. The Nobel Prize-winning Obama-Biden foreign policy is to just take the absolute worst problems from all around the world and bring them here. We can’t handle them either, but let’s just make them our problem.


The Bush-Cheney doctrine was and is pure crap and it had nothing to do with fighting terrorist abroad in order to avoid fighting them here. If that were the case, they wouldn't have abandoned the search for Bin Laden in Afghanistan and instead taken us into a war with Iraq based totally on lies.

If you want to continue to support Bush, Cheney and their doctrine, that's your choice but you should know that most of the rest of the world sees them as war criminals, guilty of crimes against humanity, and IMO rightly so.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
And what is so amazing about it is that the very people who are hurt the worst under this policy are the various factions of the Democratic Party that put Mr. Obama and his political allies in power in the first place. Countless studies have shown that such a mass influx of poor workers will hurt mainly blacks, unions, other Hispanics and the working poor. Pretty much the only ones to benefit from amnesty will be business owners and big corporations hungry for cheap labor. Efforts to sweep the problem under the rug have blown up in the administration’s face.
www.washingtontimes.com...


If that were the case, (good for corporations and bad for unions) it would seem that all you union busting advocates would overwhelmingly support immigration reform. I thought another part of your Bush-Cheney doctrine would be that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," so why wouldn't you support immigration reform?

I'm not a rocket scientist but even I can figure out that it doesn't make sense that everyone who would be hurt favors it while everyone who would benefit opposes it.

I worked through a union for over 33 yrs. and during that time, I even helped an illegal or two get their green card and/or work permit so they could legally work with our union. Because our union demanded it, they got paid the exact same wage and benefit package as everyone else and they never cost us a single job.

What mainly hurts blacks, hispanics and the working poor, are "american employers" refusing to pay a living wage. Period



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 09:26 AM
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a reply to: Flatfish

Right now over 300,000 illegals have been released by the Obama Administration during this "crisis" and are on a "waiting list" for adjudication.

The employers not paying a "living wage" will only get worse when there are hundreds of thousands willing to work for far less than a "living wage".

What would you do if you had a job that needed doing - like a new roof for your house - one employer who paid a living wage had to give you an honest estimate of $10,000 because of the cost to himself for labor materials overhead and money for his family to have a living wage; or another employer who paid what good workers would take and stay with him as good workers etc and gave you an honest estimate of $6,000. Unless you asked the employers "what do you pay your workers?", which I seriously doubt you would -

Be honest with yourself and with me, who would you choose to do your roof?

Would the "living wage" employer stay in business or go out of business losing even a living wage for his family?

That is what is happening and will get far worse with the Obama administration catch and release policy.

By the way if you are blaming the rich, the Obama's are quite wealthy, Kerry is beyond wealthy, Pelosi is wealthy, Mrs. Clinton thought an annual income of 12 million was dead broke. So don't just put the fault of the "wealthy" on the backs of Republicans. Nearly 100% of powerful democrats and their supporters are not 1%ers but .05%ers who pollute the environment with their private jets, and have multiple homes with maids (think they pay their maids $15 an hour, I doubt it, think they pay their gardeners $15 an hour, probably not - once this influx gets to work they will get lots more servants for their multiple houses and nannies for their children for half what they are paying now) This is not a partisan "sin" it is people paying wages that others will take for doing a good job. Would you pay someone double what they asked to do a job for you around your house because you thought they didn't ask for enough?


edit on 26-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: addition

edit on 26-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: sp



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 09:57 AM
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A CBS news article:

guess the mainstream media is finally catching up with the rest of us

(no one watches CNN anymore)

houston.cbslocal.com...

snippets of the article below:
ARRIAGA, Mexico (AP) —



The women and children …rushing to grab the safest places on the roof of the northbound freight train … The migrants also uniformly said they decided to head north because they had heard that a change in U.S. law requires the Border Patrol to swiftly release children and their mothers ….a (illegal in NYC) mother said … “if she gets across she can stay here, that’s what you hear.”…many are reporting in calls back home that they’re free … Last year, the U.S. returned fewer than 2,000 children


edit on 26-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: bad paste



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: grandmakdw

Look, the reason that some employers pay below a living wage is because they can and their inherent greed dictates that they do.

Truth be told, the main reason that illegal immigrants fall prey to unscrupulous employers, (who usually don't even pay minimum wage, much less a living wage) is due to the fact that the employer in question has the moral aptitude of a weasel and threatens the immigrants with exposure and/or deportation if he/she doesn't accept the pay and/or working conditions offered.

I don't see illegal immigrants as being the cause of greed and immorality, that lies it the heart of the beholder and in this case, that would be any employer who treats his people in that manner. Those employers who utilize these tactics are not only screwing over their employees, they're also screwing you, me and every other taxpaying american.

Why is it that no one wants to hold those greedy bastards accountable? Are they not breaking the law too?

Why does the GOP oppose raising the minimum wage, not to mention living wage legislation?

Is it maybe because they're one in the same?

Oh yeah, funny you mention it because I'm currently in the process of re-roofing my own house and I'm doing the labor myself. I roofed it the first time when I built the house 30 yrs. ago and seeing how I'm retired and still young enough to do it, I'm doing it again.

On the other hand my father, (who retired through the same union as did I) had his house re-roofed 3 yrs. ago just prior to his death and we did in fact, inquire about labor conditions of every company that bid on it. We also went to their other job sites to inspect their work and interview their employees. To make a long story short, he paid $18,000.00 to have it done when the low bidder was at $14,000.00. I would have done the same thing. (I built my father's house too, but the roof is over 10,000 sq. ft. and I was reluctant to take on that big a job alone.)

There's a couple of applicable old sayings that come to mind; "You get what you pay for." and "Never be afraid to pay the most for the best, because you'll always be happy with it."



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 04:37 AM
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The Republicans will fight amnesty until they get full control and then they'll do it. It's all about the votes F- the people that already live here. Having been born here and stuck living in poverty I find it revolting that we need to import other countries poverty. I'm surviving by the skin of my ass I don't need anymore competition.



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 07:12 AM
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originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: grandmakdw

If immigrants are better workers than "Americans"...maybe we should deport the inefficient workers instead of the hard working immigrants.



As much as I like your suggestion, I seriously doubt that the Mexican government would accept an immigrant exchange program of the type you suggest. They are way harder on illegals than we are here. It's like the southern border has a check valve that only allows a northern flow.



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 11:34 AM
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New breaking news on this issue:

CBS: dfw.cbslocal.com...

“On one hand, I have women and children and young people in distress — and then on the other hand, I’ve had a criminal element of gang members,” says Vickers.

“Young men that have had multiple deportations and do not want to get caught. I’ve heard them tell border patrol as they’re loading them into their vehicle ‘That’s okay, Obama’s gonna let me go.’”



dfw.cbslocal.com...

“The local governments are being overwhelmed because of the possibilities for diseases.

There are people that are being apprehended that are coming in with warrants for murders or prior convictions for child abuse, and these are the guys that are coming in the same groups with 12 year olds and 5 year olds,” says Zapata. “

... says Cuellar. “I’ve talked to border patrol down in McAllen. They’ve seen TB; they’ve seen chicken pox; they’ve seen scabies. And according to Border Patrol, 4 or 5 of their agents have tested positive for those diseases.” (my note: their form of TB is drug resistant, highly contagious, and deadly)

Customs and Border Patrol has been shipping illegal immigrants to facilities all over the country and reportedly are even looking at using an abandoned Walmart in New York, according to Congressman Chris Collins (R-NY).

“It is unacceptable the federal government is trying to force the hardworking taxpayers of New York to foot the bill to house undocumented immigrants,” said Congressman Chris Collins.

“The President’s actions have fueled the current crises along the southern border, and now New York residents are being directly impacted by his irresponsible actions.

If President Obama was committed to enforcing the immigration laws currently in place, this would not be an issue. Instead, the President has decided to pick and choose which laws he wants to enforce,
creating an environment where wrongdoing goes unpunished.”




www.breitbart.com...


Earnest added that, although Obama was exploring executive action, it was “not a substitute for robust Congressional action” on immigration reform. “That’s why we’re trying to focus on getting that done,” he concluded.

Obama has been heavily criticized after his 2012 executive decision to defer the deportations of some young illegal immigrants, which critics argue was a key incentive for more children to cross the border illegally.



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Flatfish

I agree that people who hire illegal workers should be prosecuted and given jail time or super hefty fines, and the owners or CEO's are the ones that need to be prosecuted not the managers. The local managers are only following the unspoken policies of the management. But you need to be aware that lots of small business owners who hire illegals are Democrats, it is not just Republicans. You appear to be a Republican hater from what you have written, my "feelers" - which are just fine thank you - are pointed in the "right" direction, my "feelers" tell me yours are pointed toward the left. (yes a pun on your earlier post,


However, there would be a ton of Democrats that hire maids, gardeners, chauffeurs, nannies that would also automatically go to jail and get super hefty fines, which is ok with me along with the Republicans who do the same. Look at all the super wealthy democrats that deny what they are: I named some earlier, but all the hollywood Dems, all the large contributors - so putting it all on the heads of Republicans is not fair. There is not a single large contributor to the Dems that is not either a 1%er or .05%er - even though most like Michael Moore and Hillary deny the reality of what they are.



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: grandmakdw

If immigrants are better workers than "Americans"...maybe we should deport the inefficient workers instead of the hard working immigrants.



As much as I like your suggestion, I seriously doubt that the Mexican government would accept an immigrant exchange program of the type you suggest. They are way harder on illegals than we are here. It's like the southern border has a check valve that only allows a northern flow.


You are correct, the countries that the illegals are coming from would send illegal immigrants from the US
to prisons where they don't even feed the prisoners,
the prisoners have to get someone from the outside to bring them food,
and parole is non-existent
I know they don't feed their prisoners in Columbia because we had a friend who landed in a prison there



edit on 27-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: inappropriate comment erased

edit on 27-6-2014 by grandmakdw because: grammar and afterthought



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 07:37 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

I agree that people who hire illegal workers should be prosecuted and given jail time or super hefty fines, and the owners or CEO's are the ones that need to be prosecuted not the managers. The local managers are only following the unspoken policies of the management. But you need to be aware that lots of small business owners who hire illegals are Democrats, it is not just Republicans.


You're right, there are business owners on both sides of the political spectrum who abuse illegal immigrants and for the record, I never said one thing about the phenomena being limited to the Republican party. What I said, (or at least what I was trying to say) was that only one political party in D.C. was promoting measures to correct the problem while the other is doing everything in it's power to maintain the status quo.

Anyone who preys on and/or abuses illegal immigrants should receive mandatory jail time. It's been proven that "hefty fines" have no effect and are considered by most of these employers to be part of the cost of doing business.

Furthermore, IMO the penalties should extend to anyone knowingly involved in the process including CEOs, managers, hiring agents, etc... These are abuses being perpetrated against other human beings and to let someone off the hook under the guise that they were only doing what they were told, (not to mention following "unspoken" policies) is total B.S.! If that were the case, we wouldn't have wasted all that time prosecuting Nazi death camp perpetrators for simply following orders.

If it turns out that Lois Lerner was indeed targeting conservatives through the IRS, would you let her off the hook if she was just following [b]"unspoken policies"?


originally posted by: grandmakdw
You appear to be a Republican hater from what you have written, my "feelers" - which are just fine thank you - are pointed in the "right" direction, my "feelers" tell me yours are pointed toward the left. (yes a pun on your earlier post,


I am not a "Republican hater," hell I voted for Reagan...once. Actually, I think it's important to have both sides of the political spectrum represented in D.C. and our statehouses to insure that things don't get titled too far one way or the other.

On the other hand, the changes I've witnessed in the GOP over the past 14 yrs. has caused me to lose all respect for their brand of politics. Everything from the "Bush/Cheney doctrine" as you described it earlier, to their constant displays of ignorance, hypocrisy and obstructionism.

It would seem that the modern day GOP is in a constant and pathetic state of "Black-Tracking," a term I first heard utilized by Bill Maher. It's defined as; "The act of changing one’s mind because President Obama has agreed with you."

It has become apparent to me that their entire purpose for being in politics is to obstruct at every opportunity, kinda like a root in a sewer pipe and nowadays I hold more respect for the algae that grows on my pond than I do for the GOP. Especially the Tea Party faction, IMO they're just the latest incarnation of KKK mentality with a new name and flag.


originally posted by: grandmakdw
However, there would be a ton of Democrats that hire maids, gardeners, chauffeurs, nannies that would also automatically go to jail and get super hefty fines, which is ok with me along with the Republicans who do the same. Look at all the super wealthy democrats that deny what they are: I named some earlier, but all the hollywood Dems, all the large contributors - so putting it all on the heads of Republicans is not fair. There is not a single large contributor to the Dems that is not either a 1%er or .05%er - even though most like Michael Moore and Hillary deny the reality of what they are.


I'm not saying that the abuses are limited to one side of the political spectrum, but it would appear that one side is consistently opposed to any proposals aimed at correcting the problem and I don't think I have to tell you which side that is.

With respect to "Large" political contributors, (I assume you're talking about mega-donors) well I would pretty much figure that they're all 1%ers or at least close to it, regardless of party affiliation. On the other hand, it's worthy of note to consider who invited them to the party. You do realize that the Citizen's United lawsuit was brought by Republicans, don't you?

One more thing I'd like to explicitly point out, (I've tried to infer it several times during our debate but I'm not sure I got the point across) The statutes or laws that currently dictate the treatment of unaccompanied, underage, immigrant children coming across our borders were enacted by George W.Bush in 2002 when he created the Dept. Of Homeland Security and "NOT" by President Obama.

Like I said before, the modern day GOP/TP seems to be in a constant state of "Black-Tracking" and it's nothing less than despicable.


edit on 27-6-2014 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: grandmakdw

If immigrants are better workers than "Americans"...maybe we should deport the inefficient workers instead of the hard working immigrants.



As much as I like your suggestion, I seriously doubt that the Mexican government would accept an immigrant exchange program of the type you suggest. They are way harder on illegals than we are here. It's like the southern border has a check valve that only allows a northern flow.


You are correct, the countries that the illegals are coming from would send illegal immigrants from the US
to prisons where they don't even feed the prisoners,
the prisoners have to get someone from the outside to bring them food,
and parole is non-existent
I know they don't feed their prisoners in Columbia because we had a friend who landed in a prison there


Yeah, and who would have thought that the objective of american society was to be more like Mexico? Is that our goal now? Do unto others as they do unto you?

You know, if John Boehner really wanted to file a legitimate lawsuit, he'd sue the Statue Of Liberty for false advertising. Last I heard, in 1903 "The New Colossus" was engraved on a bronze plaque is still displayed inside her pedestal and it goes like this; (emboldened text highlighted by me)


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"



posted on Jun, 27 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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They have been doing this for decades...



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