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Is Karma the East's "Hell"?

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posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 08:51 AM
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Let me first state that I don't think the concept of Karma and the concept of Hell are similar, but rather the purpose for their existence: to instil fear and doubt in adherents, in an effort to get them to behave in certain ways, to make them easier to control.

Many Western religions have successfully utilised the concept of "Hell" over the years to control their adherents - scaring followers by stating their souls will end up in an eternal state of suffering if they take part in undesirable behaviour or fail to take part in desirable behaviour.

Many Eastern religions have successfully utilised the concept of "Karma" over the years to control their adherents - making them believe that they are doomed to a never-ending cycle of reincarnations unless they can settle their Karmic debt, which takes the form of behaving in certain ways and not behaving in others.

Although I view the concept of Karma as being more logical and closer to truth than I do the concept of Hell, I cannot shake off the feeling that both schools of thought were designed to mislead and deceive humans from truth.

Do you think it is possible that the concept of Karma was created to serve a similar purpose as the concept of Hell?




posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:30 AM
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Do you think it is possible that the concept of Karma was created to serve a similar purpose as the concept of Hell?
a reply to: Dark Ghost

All religions are a form of control IMO. What better way than having some deity or force with eyeballs everywhere which even knows what is in your heart and mind..

Karma is pretty much the same as do unto others as you would have them do unto you with the big exception being all living things have a life which you have no right to interfere with. There are several different interpolations of the Buddhist teachings much like any religion and the one I am slightly familiar with it is said you have 7 lives to attain the knowledge for the next plain of existence if you do everything right.... If not then you are reborn until you get it right .. Very very simplified explanation I suppose because organized religion just does not mean that much to me. I try to respect all religions but seem to be more comfortable in a Buddhist society; their way of looking at things seem to be more in line with peace, tranquility, and harmony....sometimes .



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:40 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
Although I view the concept of Karma as being more logical and closer to truth than I do the concept of Hell, I cannot shake off the feeling that both schools of thought were designed to mislead and deceive humans from truth.


I think you are right in your thinking, at least for Christianity...

-Only God can use judgement
-You don't have to work against an apocalypse, God will save you
-You don't have to act good, you just need to say you're sorry right before dying
-Turn the other cheek, etc.

Evil thrives when good people do nothing to stop it.
Christianity is a tool concieved by the devil.



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

(S&F'd)
close enough

people should ask why those *obelisks* are also over in tibet
/whistles



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Is Karma the East's "Hell"?

Well, not any more than Jesus' "Love eachother" is a threat. Karma and the system of progressing carnations does express that stuff like morale and behaviour affect your next life, but I don't necessarily buy that. If that was the case we would see major decline in evil over time. I see the oposite. The casual reply from the yogis then is that being human is actually a testing ground for sinners. A sandbox sortof. I see karma as a way OUT of-- not into-- hell.
edit on 23-6-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Misc and last line



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: 727Sky

But isn't this "all living things have a life which you have no right to interfere with" idea also inherently flawed?

Are bacteria not living things? How many bacteria are we responsible for killing when we wash our hands or walk down to the shop?



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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originally posted by: 727Sky
...There are several different interpolations of the Buddhist teachings much like any religion and the one I am slightly familiar with it is said you have 7 lives to attain the knowledge for the next plain of existence if you do everything right.... If not then you are reborn until you get it right ..


Sounds like BS to keep us on this wretched earth, more than being the way IMO.



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

the east has hell



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Stormdancer777

Some do, but most Eastern religions don't. My opening post is directed at the ones that don't.



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: 727Sky

But isn't this "all living things have a life which you have no right to interfere with" idea also inherently flawed?

Are bacteria not living things? How many bacteria are we responsible for killing when we wash our hands or walk down to the shop?


That is IMO a misinterpretation of the intent. Buddhist do not necessarily turn the other cheek.. Shaolin monks are some who many are most familiar with. When the Buddhist had Muslim problems in the north of Burma they basically cleaned house and up rooted 130,000 Muslims. Respect is a two way street as is live and let live.

If a spider or an ant is in your home do you kill it or capture and release (I have seen both actions)... If I kill a mosquito because it is wanting my blood did I violate its' right to survive... No it tried to violate my right to not be its' meal... so when it decided to violate me I fought back.. Live and let live but there is a line in the sand; Interfere and pay the price kinda thing.. Is it right or my belief, sometimes I must admit...

I grew up Southern Baptist with fire and brimstone preachers. I even had some that I would call friends. They all have now gone to their graves even though the second coming was going to happen any day of their life. They lived in total control and fear while all the time professing the joys of their faith.. I saw very little joy and much fear.

I gave up on organized religion many years ago ...Humm I think I lost mine around the age of 27.. Unlike some I read the Christen New testament bible cover to cover and what I got from that was many of the fire and brimstone preachers were basically F.O.S. and used fear to bind their flocks.

When I die if I close my eyes and that is it; so be it... If there is something else then I have faith that it is better than anything I can experience here in this life .. either way I really don't spend time pondering the imponderable.... I am more of a real time player who lives my life the best I can and if that is not good enough so be it. NO FEAR that I am aware of.. Some things we can know. Other things we will not know until we get there.

If there is a god then IMO we are all part of god and death is but a joining.. If not then we become plant food or smoke upon cremation; either way you can fight and scream all the way or accept what will be will be.. Death could be a new adventure, better than a 5 star hotel or a nothing... I really don't worry but I will do my best to make whatever is there a good one and will try to be darn happy for the experience.
edit on 23-6-2014 by 727Sky because: ...



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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In a way, yes an no. Hell in the western sense is more of a metaphysical punishment in the afterlife where a soul will stay until their time of punishment is served. Karma on the other hand is more of a physical sense(if that made sense), and could carry on in the next life in some views.

And shows their a choice, or chance for redeeming ones karma, even though it could have a high price.

In the west you would go to hell for disbelieving the church organization, or their members. Let alone not following the laws, or even idealistic views. The east however, kind of does toss out the old church organization, and kind of follows an Egyptian model. The Emperor, is believed to be the incarnation of a god, which was common eastern countries I think.

However, I do think the concept of Karma in the East were it differed from the west, is that it can never be a controlled ideal, unlike the a priest's decision to send a infidel to hell by using physical punishment. Where in the west, it was believed they could appease, or even calm a God from punishing a civilization.

The east was more into a code of honor whether its a religion like Buddhism or Confucianism, or just serving the Emperor which was believed to be an incarnation of a god.

While the religions in the west it was more then just dogma and brainwashing of the stupid. And they suffered for it too I bet.

If God destroyed a city with balls of fire, or earthquakes an storms, it could be consider a form of karma in the west. Maybe even judgement?
edit on 23-6-2014 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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Karma comes from Hinduism. Buddhism is kind of a reformation of Hinduism, it uses a lot of the same kind of ideas. Other eastern religions picked up the concept of karma.
Hinduism states that each one of us is stuck in a cycle of birth and rebirth. If you do a lot of evil, you get born as a lower life form and might have to pay for it in your next life. If you do good, you get better lives in your rebirth.

There are 2 outs from the cycle of birth and rebirth. One is god, other is moksh. When you spend your life in the pursuit of god (for the right reasons) you might be joined in heaven with him. When you give up all worldly pursuits, and in turn become one with nature you are granted moksha. Your soul joins the great soul and you become a part of god. Or move on to the next plane.
en.wikipedia.org...

Also hinduism, buddhism etc. do have hell. It is called Naraka. You need to do something heinous to go to hell. Your soul is taken by the death god(yamraj) to hell.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 09:48 PM
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Karma is there so when daddy and mommy don't spank the rear end and teach a lesson god will!



posted on Jun, 26 2014 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost


Let me first state that I don't think the concept of Karma and the concept of Hell are similar, but rather the purpose for their existence: to instil fear and doubt in adherents, in an effort to get them to behave in certain ways, to make them easier to control.


Karma only becomes a fear factor if you have through many incarnations realize ITS NOT WORKING; as in you continue to incarnate as a human and are moving on as a 'progressive soul'. Eastern and Western ideologies differ in the concept of 'soul experience'. The western doctrine describes it as "The Kingdom Awaits You" (that being the real reality of the higher lighter dimensions 4th-6th). The eastern tells you its possible to attain this on the 3rd platform (Earth).

[I]Dark Ghost[/I] Many Western religions have successfully utilised the concept of "Hell" over the years to control their adherents - scaring followers by stating their souls will end up in an eternal state of suffering if they take part in undesirable behaviour or fail to take part in desirable behaviour.

Westernized though form of hell is merely a fear factor; behave (Ten Commandments) and Scripture written that has undeniably exaserbated this. There are resting places for those souls that had untoward deaths, accidental or those that were murdered and or did commit unspeakable crimes. The Karmic Wheel is just about done, as in not spinning; that archetype is at its last gasp.


[I]Dark Ghost[/I] Many Eastern religions have successfully utilised the concept of "Karma" over the years to control their adherents - making them believe that they are doomed to a never-ending cycle of reincarnations unless they can settle their Karmic debt, which takes the form of behaving in certain ways and not behaving in others.

Although I view the concept of Karma as being more logical and closer to truth than I do the concept of Hell, I cannot shake off the feeling that both schools of thought were designed to mislead and deceive humans from truth.

Do you think it is possible that the concept of Karma was created to serve a similar purpose as the concept of Hell?

This Universe is self correcting, as I said karmic payback is not an option anymore as this Earth is changing frequency to a lighter more vibrant so do its constituent inhabitants (this is why you are seeing humans die, even though the health fields are desperately trying to keep us alive CANNOT). As the earth raises in frequency so do its ride alongs (inhabitors).
I think you are right for the Eastern thought of Karma is the never ending suffering of being a human; the Western thought is its a place of eternal suffering STAGNENT no changes STUCK for all eternity. At least with Eastern thought you have a hedge out (next life will solve all past Karma).



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:12 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

My understanding of Karma is not that it is a system of control and manipulation, but more of a moral philosophy. The actions recommended to balance your Karma are not based on the whims of some deity, as is the case with whether or not you go to Hell. Karma is based upon the merit of your actions and activities in this life. Compare the following:

You are going to Hell if you believe in a deity other than Yahweh.
You are going to Hell is you do not accept Jesus Christ into your heart.
You are going to Hell if you believe in or practice any kind of magic.
You are going to Hell if you love someone of the same gender.

You receive negative Karma if you murder someone.
You receive negative Karma if you speak vile words against someone.
You receive negative Karma if you act with the intent of harming another.
You receive negative Karma if you knowingly lie.

In the first, your "passport" to Hell is based on what Yahweh likes or dislikes. Many times these arbitrary commands are based on nothing more than Yahweh's personal preference, ego, and internal hatreds. In the latter your Karmic weights are assigned or removed based on your actions and their effects in the world.

Whether or not you accept Christ into your heart is meaningless. Whether or not you purposefully slander, lie, cheat, and steal from someone has great meaning. Whether you believe in Yahweh as the only deity in existence is meaningless. Whether you speak with kindness, truth, and honesty regardless of societal pressures has great meaning.

Hell is a concept based on fear and punishment for the sake of removing individuality and personal choice. Karma is a system of empowerment and responsibility, designed to make you consider the ethical and moral implications of your actions on yourself, your family, your community, and the world at large.

One scares you into submission.
The other empowers you to be a better human being.


~ Wandering Scribe



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 10:24 PM
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No and this is not even a proper comparison. Divine punishment and reward is not the same as karma. Divine punishment has specific rules, at least in Abrahamic religions, and when these rules are broken an angered deity punishes you. Karma on the other hand is not necisarily a supernatural occurence but rather more along the lines of consequences of actions from cause and effect if you set aside reincarnation. Reincarnation beleifs differ in religion to religion. Now where the fear may be placed is not in karma but in the Hindu caste system. Karma plays a role in this, yes, however these are not seen necisarily as punishment but lessons. The caste system is perversification of karma. Other faiths do not have the caste. There is nothing inherantly fearful of a repeating cycle. Our lives are repeating cycles. Being constantly reborn is seen more as a choice than punishment because some people have no problem with being reincarnated. Who is to say being a rat is worse than being human? Its lower in hindu beleifs but not every person holds same concepts of order. Yes one can not object being reincarnated without reaching proper steps but I do recall hearing Buddhists who gain enlightenment sometimes choose to be reborn even though they can stop, doing so for the sake of others.

Further expanding on my mentioning karma not being rule based. If it was rule based there would be rules. In Buddhism there are suggestions or warning oc caution rather than hard fast rules. I am unsure what there is in Hinduism. Anyway i think might be easier if i focus on Buddism for this part. Buddhism is non dualistic which is direct opposition to something like Taoism. Being non dualistic there is no inherantly good or bad actions. Good and bad are just perceptions of the mind. If there is no good or bad how would karma work? Well its cause and effect it has no bias for who did good or bad but if you do something that angers or saddens someone you will be more likely to either have someone harm you or have guilty thoughts.

Also it should be noted far eastern religions do not lack a hell. Some schools of Buddism have hell as well as other religions but i do not recall which. A person is not sent to hell by an angery deity in buddhism but they see it as the soul being weighed down.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: 727Sky

But isn't this "all living things have a life which you have no right to interfere with" idea also inherently flawed?

Are bacteria not living things? How many bacteria are we responsible for killing when we wash our hands or walk down to the shop?
Your statement there shows your knowledge of eastern religion and philosophy is more limited than my own. You should read up on Jainism. They care very much for preservation of all life including bacteria. They sometimes wear masks attempting not to breathe in microscopic lifeforms. They may also have a fruitarian diet because vegetables are living things while fruits and nuts and theblike are only biproducts. It is a very OCD like faith in these regards.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 11:02 PM
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I don't see it as rewards and punishment in either religion. If we want to experience materialistic/sensory pleasures we descend, if we want experience spiritual bliss we ascend. The decision is ours, neither a reward nor punishment. The lower Hindu worlds (palatal etc) same as hell as mentioned in Christianity.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: glend the bible speaks of gods punishment quite a bit so i dont understand where you get that from.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 07:56 PM
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a reply to: Aural Good point, looks like I have misinterpreted the bible to align with my way of thinking, thanks for correcting me.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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a reply to: Aural



Your statement there shows your knowledge of eastern religion and philosophy is more limited than my own. You should read up on Jainism. They care very much for preservation of all life including bacteria. They sometimes wear masks attempting not to breathe in microscopic lifeforms. They may also have a fruitarian diet because vegetables are living things while fruits and nuts and theblike are only biproducts. It is a very OCD like faith in these regards.


I supposed you missed the prior post where I said there are different sects of Buddhism and the one I am slightly familiar with is as I indicated. Buddhism is just like Other religions as far as being bent to a local flavors and all sorts of fanatics. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin sort of thinking..

Don't believe the way they do then off with you head.... or be kicked out of their order or declared a heretic in my experience is not the Buddhist way. Maybe your experience is different ?
There are fanatics in ever religion. Even some Christens refused to bathe during the dark ages for they might kill the Lice that infested their bodies..

Furthermore I really don't give a dump until someone starts trying to place their fear and guilt on me or mine.

Like I said I am very comfortable in a Buddhist society... I will let someone else worry about heaven or hell and their soul; my soul is doing just fine, thank you.



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