The Evidence that's convinced me of ETs' Presence on Earth

Some things you just know without proof. For instance, I am old enough to remember when doctors told us mothers that when our babies were cutting teeth, it had nothing to do with running a fever. Of course, it took scientific proof to convince the doctors that mothers were right.

originally posted by: waltwillis


What they get for their efforts is a lot of grief from someone calling themselves a skeptic, but in truth they are a pseudo-skeptic that say they are just looking for proof.

That is a self delusional lie on the part of the so called "skeptic".

Good scientific inquiry does not and never will work within that perimeter.

These folks are suffering from some mental disorder ......

Yes a true skeptic keeps an open mind to all possibilities.

However people who experience something can also have a pre-conceived idea of what occurred and are really seeking other 'believers' to reinforce this by posting it on a public forum.

When others come along and question it, or offer a different opinion on what it may be, and they interpret this as 'grief' then that is self-delusional. That is a closed mind and one working within a very narrow perimeter. Many deeply religious people are the same. They are blind to their belief and cannot and will not question it. Is that a mental disorder?

Science may not be able to explain everything. But it is the best tool we've got for trying to do so. Otherwise we'd still be in prehistoric times of superstition and bizarre rituals.

So we cannot rule out an ET presence any more than we can rule out God existing. But at this present moment in time neither of those things can be considered facts.

originally posted by: MOMof3
Some things you just know without proof. For instance, I am old enough to remember when doctors told us mothers that when our babies were cutting teeth, it had nothing to do with running a fever. Of course, it took scientific proof to convince the doctors that mothers were right.

Transposing this into the actual topic of the thread then if the OP (or indeed anyone else) believes there is an ET presence here on Earth then it will take scientific proof to convince the majority of people here on the planet that this is indeed a fact.

Of course people are also conveniently forgetful of anything "they just knew to be true" and turned out to be ultimately false.

a reply to: mirageman

Are you an atheist? I believe there is a God, but I can't prove it, but I trust my instincts.

a reply to: MOMof3

More agnostic. I cannot rule out there being a creator of the human race but I do not subscribe to any religion. Logic tells you either only one of them is correct or they are all wrong. But let's not derail the thread with a theological debate.

Like I have said a couple of times previously I actually think the OP (Sharted) has put together a very well written thread and I am happy for anyone to state why they 'believe' something. Sometimes all we can go on is a hunch.

But too many people are incapable of differentiating hearsay (especially from high ranking officials) from fact. They also want their belief system reinforced instead of constantly being able to re-evaluate it in a logical, methodical way. My 'hunch' is that somewhere amongst all these UFO stories and alien encounters that there is something more to it than we are currently able to ascertain. However I am unable to actually substantiate that view with verifiable hard facts.

That's why I posted the details on the official USAF reports on Roswell

They actually confirm a spaceship was photographed at Roswell AAF. A skeptic claimed on TV they were faked photographs. He didn't check his facts. They are 100% genuine. And the truth about their origin is in that report

a reply to: Sharted
Well, you're skipping over the same question and point I've made many times on this forum. Your explanation is the Roswell alien spacecraft just happened to be made up exactly the same way as weather balloons with beams and foil-like material? That's rational and logical enough in your mind to skip over and move forward? Okay.

People here calling my posts erroneous and to them I say: I wasn't there, neither were you so please stop throwing insults at my post

Where exactly am I throwing insults?

I clearly stated it was "my opinion"

Yes, your opinion- "I’m 100% convinced that ET craft have been monitoring us for a long time." If you're 100% convinced, then you have a strong evidence to back up that opinion. If this opinion is based on these websites, then you haven't researched any further than what you're told. That's my issue in general with believers on this forum. Their arguments normally don't go any deeper than these websites.

The CIA file I posted at the end of the OP hasn't even been mentioned yet, mainly because nobody can refute it.

I looked over your first post and was addressing what I was familiar with. I'm not familiar with all of the "CIA files", so I couldn't comment on it.

And yes, Google is where I obtained this data but I bet the next lame tactic is to say everything on Google is false, just like the media. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of truth online.

No, I'm saying you search Google for "Scott Carpenter UFO" and what pops up are UFO websites telling stories of him saying "At no time, when the astronauts were in space were they alone:...". You look at another UFO website and it says the same thing. Sites filled with other tabloid-like UFO stories. That's where your research ends. Is it the inherent desire to want to believe so badly in UFO/aliens that prevents you from even wanting to search further for a sound bite, or something to back up this claim? What happens when you're faced with an email with the actual source of that quote saying the he never said it? Do you believe it and put it away? Or do you chose to turn it into more conspiracy nonsense? Does your (or any other believers) pride prevent you from saying- "Okay, I guess I was wrong"?

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: Sharted
Well, you're skipping over the same question and point I've made many times on this forum. Your explanation is the Roswell alien spacecraft just happened to be made up exactly the same way as weather balloons with beams and foil-like material? That's rational and logical enough in your mind to skip over and move forward? Okay.

I'm not skipping anything about Roswell. The video in the OP is allegedly from a man who was at the crash and witnessed an alien. What if he's telling the truth? Yes, he could be lying but he could also be telling the whole truth, neither you or I can prove either way. It's not that I'm ignoring people in this thread it's just that I expressed my personal opinions in the OP and if I were to try and answer everyone and give explanations in complete depth I would be here forever. Here is the video again since it vanished from the OP for some reason, I will just post the URL because it only works when it wants to on this forum:

www.youtube.com...

Edit: and if you look at any of my posts on any thread you will find that I never reference or link to a UFO website because their opinions are usually biased. I scoured the CIA FOI files and found the one I posted in the OP. Also, I'm 100% convinced doesn't mean I need to prove anything to you, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. How I arrived at that is my business. I tried my best to give some UFO instances in the OP, and believe me there are many more which are arguably more convincing. But if you feel you can provide more conclusive evidence then feel free to start your own thread. Each time I say something about why I'm convinced of ETs' presence I am mocked, whether it be with sarcastic comments or a poke at my mathematics skills.

originally posted by: Sharted
Weather balloons weren't top secret, even if they were designed to spy on the soviets; like they would give a #. Oh noes the balloon is gonna destroy us! Then the army cloaked it in secrecy and recovered every single piece of debris when it crashed, standard precudre for such an insignificant object eh? People here calling my posts erroneous and to them I say: I wasn't there, neither were you so please stop throwing insults at my post and feel free to make your own thread if you can provide better info.

I'm not going to insult you, but I am going to suggest you do better research. Many of us here on ATS used to believe these stories until we did more research, including me.

And I'm allowed to provide better info in the same thread as you, so that's what I'm going to do here. This is an explantion of how the secrecy worked surrounding project mogul. I got the full report from the link on this site which says:

www.roswellfiles.com...
"The full report, which is almost almost 1000 pages in length, can be ordered from the Air Force, or it can be downloaded in PDF format from this site.)" That link to the 998 page pdf doesn't work anymore. I don't know if there's a good link anywhere online to the full report but if you can't find one and want to read it, let me know and I'll find a way to get you a copy. This is the part relevant to secrecy:

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I have already posted links to the full PDFs of both the original Roswell Report 1994 and the 1997 Roswell Case closed here:

Link

They are available Free of Charge to download.

originally posted by: MOMof3
Some things you just know without proof. For instance, I am old enough to remember when doctors told us mothers that when our babies were cutting teeth, it had nothing to do with running a fever. Of course, it took scientific proof to convince the doctors that mothers were right.

I actually don't disagree with you. Personally I believe (or know) that some knowledge is innate. Mothering instincts may be a good example of that. I have been going on about how there really is no way to calculate the probability of ET life but most people, including scientists, believe it to be certain. There really is no hint of it. In a way, its sort of intuitive. Unless that's just a built in delusion.

a reply to: mirageman

They actually confirm a spaceship was photographed at Roswell AAF. A skeptic claimed on TV they were faked photographs. He didn't check his facts

I swear Larry King brings the science guy on his show to make the skeptics look bad

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian

Personally I believe (or know) that some knowledge is innate. Mothering instincts may be a good example of that. I have been going on about how there really is no way to calculate the probability of ET life but most people, including scientists, believe it to be certain. There really is no hint of it. In a way, its sort of intuitive. Unless that's just a built in delusion.

It's strange as well that a lot of our technology we have 'imagined' down the centuries have eventually come to pass. Communicating over vast distances, air travel and transmitting pictures across the solar system has become common place in just a short space of our existence. Whilst things like warp drive, time travel and teleportation (for us) are still the stuff of science fiction. It still seems we are somehow programmed to eventually achieve the goals of our imaginations.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Sharted

Even skeptics get confused sometimes.

The official Air Force reports on Roswell are available for free here : Download Free PDF Roswell Report 1994

Roswell Report Case Closed (1997)

You will discover that a number of photographs are of a confirmed bona-fide spacecraft and the first one was taken at Roswell AAF base.

That photograph is frequently cropped and said to be the Roswell spacecraft. Here is the entire photograph below. Described as:
Edit:
As mentioned below by Phage- The PEPP aeroshell.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Actually it's the PEPP aeroshell. A testbed for the landing system.
www.laesieworks.com...

Sort of like the "saucer" used for today's test on Kauai.

originally posted by: jonnywhite
a reply to: 727Sky

I suppose you didn't know about this (can't blame you):

Did you know hte original lie detection test was trying to eliminate murder as the explanation for the actions of those involved? No questions that I'm aware of related to being abducted by aliens. This means all this hype about his truthfulness is completely inappropriate. Furthermore, Phil Klass shot down the other polygraph test Travis uses to qualify his truthfulness. The examiner flat out said Travis was deceptive and also was using countermeasures (!) to defeat the test. This was 30+ years ago!

Travis is lying. The others are too. People want to believe it. They want to believe there're intelligent ET's out there. Ufology runs on it.

Carl SAgan was right. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

The truth about this case will eventually come out. From Travis himself. I think he wants us to know. If not, then I'm wrong about him.

It may very well be that he was taken, but he was not aware that he was taken after being knocked out.

The truth test is not admissible in any court of law and this TV test is no exception.

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed
>>
How do you know that they really arent fallen angels, capable of manifesting physically while also being able to cross into the spirit realm at will? My personal first-hand experience with these entites gave me the impression that they cannot be confined by the laws of the physical realm, but can instead override them rather than utilize them as we do.
>>

Irrelevant. Semantics. Choice of words doesn't change anything.

A civilization so advanced to conduct space travel is actually to be expected to be able to manipulate space/time..to be able to traverse between realities. We now could debate endlessly whether the Aliens are "in reality" Angels or the Angels "in reality" Aliens..what does it matter? It doesn't.

For me personally the often arising debate whether "aliens are really angels" or "angels are really aliens" is silly and non-constructive.

Well i think you are wrong, I think it does matter. I also have come to become convinced that they are fallen angels. I did not come to this lightly. I have had several sightings in my life, one where the whole town saw it. In 1981 I guarded a crash site in Germany. The cover story was as usual an experimental air force fighter, it was not.

There were casualties and I personally marked body tissue for retrieval. It was radioactive as was the whole area. I never got real close to main crash area, it was buried, bored into side of the mountain. A swath through the trees like you see in the movies. It was not that large, at least what was left, cus it fit on a u. S. Army flatbed. It was not a saucer, more like a silver bullet although it had partial wing or saucer like sides.

What ever happened it was in the air, I always thought it was shot down as it was within two miles of a secret ammo bunker area that had all sorts of ammo stored in bunkers including missiles. We were sworn to secrecy and threatened etc.

I have not thought of this in a while. But the reason I think they are the fallen is because a friend of mine. He ministers to abduction victims and their families. He quickly realized he says that through God these victims are completely set free. Once the fallen, evil is rebuked and removed from these people it never returns. They are freed through God.

He has been doing this for years now and people are completely saved from the phenomenon through God. If it were just aliens this would not be the case, they would not stop because of God.

This happens time after time in his ministry. This has convinced me, they are the fallen.

The Bot

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I have already posted links to the full PDFs of both the original Roswell Report 1994 and the 1997 Roswell Case closed here:

Thanks, I already had them downloaded but I saved those bookmarks in case someone else is looking for them. I must have missed that post, thanks for pointing it out.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Sharted

Even skeptics get confused sometimes...

You will discover that a number of photographs are of a confirmed bona-fide spacecraft and the first one was taken at Roswell AAF base.

Apparently that reached an altitude of 30 miles, but if outer space begins at about 62 miles up, it only made it about halfway to outer space, so I'm not sure I'd really call it a spacecraft. 30 miles is a very high altitude though.

This is where I got that altitude:
www.wsmr-history.org...

a reply to: Arbitrageur

I was using it to illustrate a point that a series of photos (including this) were called a "fake" by Bill Nye on a TV debate when in fact it was genuinely taken at Roswell and is actually one of ours. Thanks for the extra info. That even proves I didn't quite get the facts right myself, as technically it shouldn't be called a spacecraft LOL! Which proves my point even more. Check the evidence and check it again and again.

originally posted by: Sharted

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I am completely unable to find any information on this online.

I can not find any credible websites that even mention it, so it's veracity is in question (though I do believe it's real), and the context is impossible to decipher without more information.

Either way, having read the memo, nothing in that CIA report indicates ET life. Especially part 3 which states it's reasonable to say more information will be available when they make their full report on the incident. If it was ET piloted UFO what more info would be gathered? Most likely it was a Russian craft they had not identified, this is a preliminary report, and the FULL report had information that does not jive with an ET connection so it's not talked about. Then there is the fact that apparently they regularly make contact which means there are hundreds of people who would know about ET life if this was ET life, and no one has come forward. Sorry, probably Russian aircraft. This was 1955.

Conclusion: Probably a real memo and appears to have zero to do with an ET connection.

Funny you couldn't find it online considering there are a few threads dedicated to it here on ATS. Anyway, I'm done talking to you and other people just wanting to show how wrong and stupid I am. I have my beliefs, you have yours. Please respect my opinions and I will respect yours.

Umm yes, and ATS is not where information originates. That's the problem, if it's nowhere except sites like ATS then it's probably either a fake, or the information is being misrepresented. I went ahead and assumed it was real, and then pointed out why, if real, an ET explanation makes zero sense in that report. You don't like I destroyed your argument, I get it. Better to know the truth than look the fool though right?

You can have your opinions all you like. What you can't have is the label of FACT or PROOF or EVIDENCE attached to your beliefs.

I have not made even the slightest attempt to change your beliefs, have I? All I have done is look at facts you claim prove ET existence, and found the proof is not proof, nor is it even evidence. Believe all you like though, I am perfectly ok with it.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Arbitrageur

I was using it to illustrate a point that a series of photos (including this) were called a "fake" by Bill Nye on a TV debate when in fact it was genuinely taken at Roswell and is actually one of ours. Thanks for the extra info. That even proves I didn't quite get the facts right myself, as technically it shouldn't be called a spacecraft LOL! Which proves my point even more. Check the evidence and check it again and again.

So are you suggesting Bill Nye was wrong .. therefore ET aliens must exist? If so I am having a hard time boarding that train.