It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Johann Breyer , 89, charged with 'complicity in murder' in US of 216,000 Jews at Auschwitz

page: 4
5
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 03:31 PM
link   
And the witch hunt continues. They say they have proof of him being at the death camp this they would have to prove. The archives the military has only shows him being at Auschwitz but it doesn't say at which Auschwitz. Many people don't know this but there were two Auschwitz the first which he says he was a guard at was a slave labor camp the second was the death camp. If he wasn't at the death camp then he shouldn't be charged with the crimes they are trying to pin on him. Besides the court has already ruled once before he wasn't responsible because he was a minor at the time. This if he was a guard then he is as responsible as the person pulling the lever is nonsense.




posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 03:53 PM
link   
Interesting that he is only being accused of being complicit in the murder of 216,000 jews......But no mention of any Gypsies or others that may have been killed there at that time that he could be complicit in.


Just an observation.
edit on 22-6-2014 by ken10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 03:57 PM
link   
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

The Nazi nuke program started before the US. There are reports that Germany did perform nuclear test explosions however they were not successful. They were more along the lines of crude dirty bombs.

German nuclear energy project - Wiki - A brief overview of their program. Sources at bottom of page

Germany had the infrastructure in place. The issue revolved around Uranium and which one was needed - Uranium 235. Germany had more than one nuclear weapons development program (upwards of 7+)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:08 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

The Nazi nuke program started before the US. There are reports that Germany did perform nuclear test explosions however they were not successful. They were more along the lines of crude dirty bombs.

German nuclear energy project - Wiki - A brief overview of their program. Sources at bottom of page

Germany had the infrastructure in place. The issue revolved around Uranium and which one was needed - Uranium 235. Germany had more than one nuclear weapons development program (upwards of 7+)



Interesting I didn't know that.

I'll have to look more into this.

Thanks for the info



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Reference Japan and the use of nuclear weapons -

Volunteer Fighting Corps - Imperial Japan WW2


Volunteer Fighting Corps

were armed civil defense units planned in 1945 in the Empire of Japan as a last desperate measure to defend the Japanese home islands against the projected Allied invasion during Operation Downfall (Ketsugo Sakusen) in the final stages of World War II.

They were the Japanese equivalent of the German Volkssturm.[1] Its Commander-in-Chief was former Prime Minister General Koiso Kuniaki.[2]


* - In March 1945, the cabinet of Japanese Prime Minister Kuniaki Koiso passed a law establishing the creation of unarmed civil defense units.

* - April 1945 - The Freedom corp was turned into a militia.


Strength[edit]

Some 28,000,000 men and women were considered "combat capable" by the end of June 1945, yet only about 2,000,000 of them were recruited when the war ended, and most of them did not experience combat due to Japan's surrender before the Allied invasion of the Japanese home islands. The Battle of Okinawa took place before the formation of Volunteer Fighting Corps.[3] At this stage of the war, the lack of modern weaponry and ammunition meant that most were armed with swords or even bamboo spears.

Within Japan proper, the Kokumin Giyū Sentōtai were never used in combat, except in South Sakhalin (the Battle of Okinawa occurred before its formal inception). And the similar units organized in Japanese exterior provinces were used in battle. The units in Chosen, Kwangtung and Manchukuo sustained heavy casualties in combat against the Soviet Union during the Soviet invasion of Manchuria during the last days of World War II.[4]

The Kokumin Giyūtai was abolished by order of the American occupation forces after the surrender of Japan.



The Japanese and the manner in which they fought, coupled with their spiritual belief, are essentially modern day Klingons.

* - Death before dishonor - Japanese military personnel would fight to the death. They considered surrender as being weak which often resulted in horrific treatment of captured persons.

* - Instead of wasting ammunition to kill / execute captured persons they used a bayonet into the heart.

* - There are documented cases where entire Japanese units were wiped out. In one case, and I will try to dig the info up, out of 3k +/- Japanese soldiers there were only like 50 survivors.

The Japanese people were ordered to have the same mindset come an allied invasion of Japan proper.

* - 20 million Japanese eligible for the militias, 2 million raised before the end of the war.

An invasion would have been a blood bath to the extent the use of a Nuke very well may have saved the lives of millions. The nukes were not dropped on the same day. When Japan refused to surrender the first go around, we set off a nuke in one city.

A couple days later an ultimatum was again sent to the Japanese to surrender, which they refused as well. The second nuke was dropped.

The Emperor is the one who forced a Japanese unconditional surrender. The military leaders in Japan had refused an unconditional surrender but were overridden, which essentially resulted in a short lived coup.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:14 PM
link   
Moral of the story. In any war the innocent will suffer. The once who start and make war will never be prosecuted. Soldiers will always take the fall for their masters. If you rich enough, there is something like above the law.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:14 PM
link   
a reply to: buster2010

"I was just following orders".

Makes a person complicit in the crime, regardless if they were in a watch tower or the one dropping the gas into the showers.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: ken10
Interesting that he is only being accused of being complicit in the murder of 216,000 jews......But no mention of any Gypsies or others that may have been killed there at that time that he could be complicit in.


Just an observation.


A fair observation. However bear in mind that not all prisoners went to the same camps. Some were extermination camps, some were labor camps, etc etc etc. That doesn't include Jasenovac concentration camp.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:25 PM
link   
Here is another article that has some more information present. Apparently he is being accused of assisting with the gas chamber.

A Retiree, 89, Is Held in Deaths at Auschwitz


WASHINGTON — The 89-year-old Johann Breyer shuffled unsteadily into a federal courtroom in Philadelphia on Wednesday morning, using a cane for support as he sank slowly into a chair at the defense table.

The retired toolmaker from what was then Czechoslovakia, who immigrated to the United States in 1952, was thin and pale and dressed in a green uniform after a night spent in jail following his arrest at his home in Philadelphia. He looked confused at times, too, but when the judge asked him if he understood why the German authorities wanted to put him on trial there, he answered simply, “Yes.”

Nothing about his demeanor suggested the long-ago secrets that the authorities in both Germany and the United States say Mr. Breyer has carried with him for 70 years. As an armed guard at the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz and a member of the notorious SS “Death’s Head” battalion, the authorities charged on Wednesday, Mr. Breyer was complicit in the gassing of 216,000 Jews taken there in 1944 from Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Germany.



Click for more info


ETA - I noticed I have posted a lot in this forum so im gonna pull back and let others have their conversations.

Sorry bout that
edit on 22-6-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: buster2010

"I was just following orders".

Makes a person complicit in the crime, regardless if they were in a watch tower or the one dropping the gas into the showers.


If he was not guarding that camp then he had no hand in any of the deaths. If this applies to this man then why isn't the Jews who helped in the camps arrested and charged as well? After all they were just following orders.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:34 PM
link   

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: buster2010

"I was just following orders".

Makes a person complicit in the crime, regardless if they were in a watch tower or the one dropping the gas into the showers.


If he was not guarding that camp then he had no hand in any of the deaths.


It looks like he worked in "intake". Who goes where, including extermination. Let's see what happens in the court.


If this applies to this man then why isn't the Jews who helped in the camps arrested and charged as well? After all they were just following orders.


By far and away the dumbest thing I've read here. Any "help" provided was for survival. Jeez.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:41 PM
link   
a reply to: intrepid



By far and away the dumbest thing I've read here. Any "help" provided was for survival. Jeez.

If he didn't do his job then he would have been shot. Jeez do you know anything about WW2? The SS officers shot their men on sight for not following orders. And it is true that Jews did help the Germans in the camps they were called Kapo's.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:45 PM
link   
a reply to: buster2010

Right. All those SS people also had tattoos on their arms. You can't see the difference?



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 04:50 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra
Yet we hear of stories made up by these "victims" all of the time, are actually lies.
How many of these charges are based on lies?
Sure some folks died in WW2, but the eternal victims were not the only dead.
We disrespect the dead by forgetting them in order to favor a small percentage of those murdered.
Bottom line, even if this guy was a world class bad guy, he will not serve his full sentence and was able to live a beautiful life for the time that mattered, many never got that opportunity.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 07:29 PM
link   
a reply to: LightningStrikesHere

There are two main issues here, which are difficult to get ones head around. This is how I think about them.

First, the length of time it takes to identify and then capture and prosecute these crimes

When someone goes to ground in one decade, and successfully buries their past, with a new name, social security information, and winds up with records going back decades, it can be very difficult to tell where that person is. There are a few people out there, in all likelihood, who are known to the governments of the world as what they are, but cannot be prosecuted for reasons of convenience, or because of the cunning with which these individuals have crafted their lives since their disgusting exploits. For instance, it is jolly hard to get someone out of the south of the American continent against their will, especially if they happen to have had influence on local communities in the area. Philanthropic gestures will go an awful long way to secure loyalty in some places, and some Nazi war criminals went to ground with heaping wads of gold and art to sell.

It would make sense therefore, that if they donated some of that money, or built schools or raised small churches with them, that they might have managed to escape negative scrutiny for some time. To many, Nazi war criminals are pure scum, but to the people who have benefited from an individuals need to hide from the more connected, less desperate peoples of the world, they might be considered the saviour of a village, or a small town, quietly celebrated by people who have no suspicion of the dark past of their benefactors. That makes it hard to dislodge them quietly, because people look out for those who have appeared to look out for them, by and large.

The other factor, is what good does prosecuting this crime do now?

Normally speaking, I completely agree with you. In my opinion, in the great scheme of things, over all, justice must be swift, or else it has less and less value with every day between the commission of the offence, and the sentence being handed down. However, the nature and severity of the crimes which we are talking about, had to have been seen to be believed. I have heard from my grandfathers, about things they saw when they fought the Nazis, and obviously I have done independent research of my own, as well as having watched many documentaries on the subject of the Nazi occupation of Europe, their tactics, and indeed, the many horrific things that happened in the camps, and in the gas chambers and ovens and so on.

In situations like this, where the people concerned have done such unmentionable things, on such a scale as to boggle the mind, there has to be a distinction made between simple murder (which is an abominable thing in and of itself), and genocide. Murdering someone is wrong, but one can loose ones mind in certain circumstances, and there are, believe it or not, some cases of murder which make one think that perhaps, although wrong, one can see exactly why the person acted as they did, and even agree that in the same scenario, one might be given to the same action. A father whose child has been molested, putting a gun against the molesters head, and blowing his brain all over a wall, is not acting within the law, but is not acting out of a severe character flaw which results in them being a menace to society, or a spectre of doom to their fellow man.

However, someone who has participated in the out and out murder of women, children, the elderly, and everyone in between, from disparate ethnic and cultural backgrounds, purely because their religious and genetic orientation are for some reason offensive, is not just totally illegal, but also utterly immoral. Whereas the father from my previous example was clearly breaking the law, his actions were no where near as questionable morally, as those of someone who was personally involved in the industrial slaughter of hundreds of unarmed, captive people, whether they did so under orders, or for fun.

There are some things, that no matter what goes wrong in ones life, one does not do, and genocide is one of those things. In my opinion, those who suffered through that time, and indeed, those who lost loved ones to the the near apocalyptic circumstances in Nazi Europe, ought to feel that the world has their back, that we all agree that what happened during those years was an abomination, never to be repeated without being countered, that no matter how far, and for how long the perpetrators run, they will be caught wherever possible, and tried with the full weight of the law for what they have done. There is no statute of limitations which could ever apply to the wrongs done during the rise of Nazi power.

It's relevance today does not stop at that either. The people who commit acts which echo those which have happened before, or harbour a desire to behave in the same way, will always have it at the back of their minds "try it, and you will more than likely die, painfully.".

While it would be preferable for people to automatically find supremacist thinking toxic and just plain wrong, while that is not the all pervading circumstance (which, sad to say, it is not at the moment) a healthy fear of allowing any supremacist attitudes to boil over into action (on the part of any political or ideological outfit), is better for society than there being no contemporary reason to hide themselves away. Either through respect for preference, or fear if necessary, must this sort of horrific moral malfunction be quashed. It is one of the few crimes in history, genocide, which must be prevented at ANY cost.

I personally like the idea that these scumbags have had to change their names, and move continents, and hide away like dogs and cowards, I like the fact that for every day of their lives, they have had to deny who they are, and have their defeat fester in their guts like some horrible pustule. I like the thought of all those bastards you see executing innocent people in documentaries, aged to the point of being unable to change their own clothes, or soiling themselves every time they digest something, and being confronted with the horrid realisation that for all their superiority and power, they are as mortal and flesh weak as the rest of us, no better, and arguably worse for the blood on their hands. I hope they all live a long time too.

More time for the authorities to catch up to them.



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 07:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: LightningStrikesHere


Breyer, 89, hobbled into a Philadelphia courtroom on Wednesday in a purple inmate uniform, stooped and with a cane. Charged with 158 counts of “complicity in the commission of murder,” prosecutors have accused him of the “systematic murder of hundreds of thousands of European Jews, transported between May 1944 and October 1944 in 158 trainloads to Auschwitz,” according to federal court documents. “Approximately 216,000 Jewish men, women and children from Hungary, Germany.




Johann Breyer , 89, charged with 'complicity in murder' in US of 216,000 Jews at Auschwitz

Well, I am a bit mixed on this. I because I understand the effect that war has on the brain. You do things that you come to regret later on in life .. (Brain washed in a sense) Also if it were true all that they are saying he did, well he was just fallowing orders.
The guys almost 90 years old ..he will answer for his "supposed crimes" in a trial not of man soon ebough.

Dont get me wrong i fully believe in eye for an eye , but i also believe in forgiveness ,love , compassion..

I dono ... Like i said i am Mixed on this....


How about you ATS ? What say you?


The reason why this is important is found in your post.

You readily and seemingly unconsciously used the "Nuremberg Defense" to excuse his actions.

If enough time has passed that we don't understand the spurious nature of such a defense, we need another trial and conviction of a Nazi war criminal.
edit on 22-6-2014 by Moresby because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2014 @ 09:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: neversaynever

There's a difference between an act of war and a crime against humanity. Everyone dropped bombs on everyone else, these 2 just happened to be nuclear. The Holocaust on the other hand falls into the second category.



The choice of target were two cities of zero military value.

They were full of civilians.

If the US had dropped the devices on top of the Emperor's Palace or to take out the remains of the Japanese fleet, that would have been war.

But no, it was two cities of women, children and the elderly. The men were away at war.

There has been a great deal of revisionist history on this issue.

The Japanese and the German Military were brought to trial, sadly, no one in the Allied camp ever answered for war crimes.

Then you need to understand why they were dropped at all. Japan was suing for surrender, but they wanted to surrender to Russia, and the US did not like that one little bit.

P



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 06:05 AM
link   
a reply to: pheonix358

The 2 cities hit were in fact major military targets. As I posted before both cities were near the top of military infrastructure and command and control for the Imperial Japanese war effort.

Target Requirements -

The Target Committee nominated five targets:

* - Kokura, the site of one of Japan's largest munitions plants;

* - Hiroshima, an embarkation port and industrial center that was the site of a major military headquarters;

* - Yokohama, an urban center for aircraft manufacture, machine tools, docks, electrical equipment and oil refineries;

* - Niigata, a port with industrial facilities including steel and aluminum plants and an oil refinery; and Kyoto, a major industrial center.

The target selection was subject to the following criteria:
* - The target was larger than 3 mi (4.8 km) in diameter and was an important target in a large urban area.
* - The blast would create effective damage.
* - The target was unlikely to be attacked by August 1945.[70]


At this point in the war the Cities were not full of civilians. Again as I pointed out earlier the Japanese military turned their volunteer corp into an armed militia, encompassing 20 million Japanese of fighting age with 2 million up an running when the bombs were dropped.


In terms of the information above its not revisionist history. It comes from the Axis powers as much as the allies.

If you don't agree with the choice that's fine but trying to argue your position while ignoring solid facts is stretching it a bit.

* - Trials -
If you researched those trials many Germans AND Japanese officers had charges dropped when their defense council argued that the crimes they were accused of were also committed by the allies. So the trials are not as lopsided as you want to make them out to be.

* - Surrender -
Again your facts are a bit off. The Japanese approached the Russians being they had a treaty with them up until the end of the war. However what they proposed was asinine to say the least.


The Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact,

also known as the Japanese–Soviet Non-aggression Pact was a pact between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan signed on April 13, 1941, two years after the brief Soviet–Japanese Border War (1939). The pact was signed to ensure the neutrality between the Soviet Union and the Empire of Japan during World War II, in which both countries participated.


The Japanese approached the Soviet Union in an effort to use them to negotiate and end of hostilities with conditions. What Japan did not know was the Soviet Union had agreed to assist the allies in the Pacific once Germany was defeated / no longer a threat to the Soviet Union on the East Front.

Japan wanted to keep the bulk of everything they had conquered up to that point. The allies, again with the Soviet Union, agreed that an unconditional surrender would be the only form accepted. Prior to the first nuclear bomb Japan refused any and all terms of surrender that required unconditional terms.

The first bomb was used and terms of surrender were once again transmitted to the Japanese government - unconditional surrender.

Japan refused it the second time, and a second bomb was used. Even then the Japanese military refused to give in to an unconditional surrender. It took the Japanese Emperor to force the military to accept the terms. After that occurred there was an attempted military coup in Japan in an effort to keep the war effort alive and to refuse unconditional terms.

The coup failed and the surrender went forward.

Japan had every chance under the sun, as did Germany, to stop their war effort and both refused. Had Germany and Japan not decided to pull their sharks and jet routine on the world stage, the war would not have occurred and the US would not have been dragged into being we would never have been attacked.

To put it in perspective, if someone is going to walk up to you and sucker punch you in the face, resulting in the person you just punched responding and kicking your ass, don't go complaining about losing. After all, you started it. Maybe next time look at the entire picture and make sure the person you hit does not have friends around the corner watching and helping.

It is very important to remember these things that occurred in war so they may never be repeated. Just as holding people responsible for the intentional mass slaughter of civilians based on religion, racial purity, and national-socialism devotion to a final victory.

* - Rape of Nanking (1937-38)
source
Naking was a priority target for Japan as it was the Nationalist capital. Japan took the key Chinese port city of Shanghai in early November 1937. The Japanese Imperial Army was supported by a rolling carpet of aerial bombardment moved up the Yangtze River valley toward the Natioanlist capital at Nanjing. Chiang abandoned his capital on December 8. Finally on December 13, 1937 entered Nanking. The resulting orgy of mindless killing ranks among the most horendous attrocities of modern times. American public opinion was somewhat diverted by the attack on the gunboat Panay on December 12. The intensity of the Japanese killing wasell reported by several European observers at the time. Even the then Japanese Foreign Minister reported after an inspection trip in January of 1938 that the "Japanese Army behaved ... in [a] fashion reminiscent [of] Attila [and] his Huns. [Not] less than 300,000 Chinese civilians slaughtered, many cases [in] cold blood." [Koki as quote in Chang] The population of Nanking was about 0.60-0.70 million, including about 0.15 million soldiers. Some Chinese managed to flee the city, but about 0.50 remained in the city when the Japanese seized it. The Japanese proceeded to kill about 0.09 million soldiers and 0.20 million civilians. These are only estimates, some believe even more were killed.

* - Civilians

Next came the civilians. Japanese soldiers as a reward for taking a cHinese town were normally given 3 days to do as they please, including rape and pillage. In the case of Nanking the rape, killing, and pilaging of the civilian population continued for nearly 2 months. The Japanese soldiers proceeded to shoot thousands down in the street, incliding the elderly, women and children. Shop keepers were ordered to open their shops which were then looted and the owner killed.

Stop blaming the United States for WWII and stop ignoring the actions taken prior to the US being attacked by Japan. You speak of a revisionist history, which is exactly what you are doing when you only blame the United States while mentioning nothing about the other powers, including Germany and Japan, who kicked things off.


A historical footnote -
When World War I was concluded it resulted in a treaty that stripped Germany of an offensive military structure. When the terms of that treaty were released one of the Generals for the allies, I forget which one, commented that it was not a peace treaty but in fact a cease fire. He speculated that in 10-20 years it would happen all over again.


edit on 23-6-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 06:26 AM
link   
For those on the anti US / root of all evil in the world resulting in war crimes.

War crimes were committed in World War I and World War 2, both prior to the US entrance to the war.

Can you guys explain to me why those war crimes are acceptable prior to US involvement? I see you guys argue constantly about the US and what occurred. If the actions are truly that shocking then why dismiss the war crimes committed prior to US involvement?

Are they somehow justified because they were not committed by the US?

After all a war crime is a war crime right?

Why hold a country responsible while ignoring the SS officers who carried it out?
edit on 23-6-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2014 @ 06:32 AM
link   
a reply to: g146541

While I understand your argument I don't completely agree with it.

In this case the charges were brought against this person when evidence was located that implicated him. By his own admission he was present but claims he did not kill anyone.

A perfectly valid argument.

Hence the reason for prosecution. Evidence will be required to support the charge allowing the accuses tor refute the info. This should be done in a court of law and not public opinion, especially because of the topic.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join